View Poll Results: Are Landis' allegations true?
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Landis drops EPO bomb on modern Pro Cycling. Lance is in the bullseye
05-20-10, 05:39 AM
#76
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The more interesting topic has been that of amateur doping, which is apparently becoming rapant.
You might be shocked as to how many people in your local races and group rides are juiced. It apparently tends to be the older, wealthier and slightly over the hill crowd more than the young bucks.
I am sure this has been why I have been dropped a few times.
You might be shocked as to how many people in your local races and group rides are juiced. It apparently tends to be the older, wealthier and slightly over the hill crowd more than the young bucks.
I am sure this has been why I have been dropped a few times.
05-20-10, 05:40 AM
#77
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I find it funny how so many with in the thread think American cyclists aren't doping. GMAFB. They're all doing it.
That might be with a broad brush I'm using, but I believe I'm fairly correct. In every instance, all athletes deny, deny, and deny.
It's only later that they come clean and admit it. I've had this conversation many times with friends and to this day, I feel Armstrong
has doped. I know, he's never been caught, but I just feel at some point it'll come out. How else were they EVER going to keep up with the
Europeans back in the day- they didn't. They generally got shelled. Then they started keeping up and then they started winning. When
high school kids are using Performance Enhancing Drugs(make no mistake, they are), I just have no doubt that American cyclists are too.
I feel pity for Floyd. He felt pressure. He had to keep up. He had to earn money. Promoters have money to make. Sponsors want
to make money. The cycle never ends.
That might be with a broad brush I'm using, but I believe I'm fairly correct. In every instance, all athletes deny, deny, and deny.
It's only later that they come clean and admit it. I've had this conversation many times with friends and to this day, I feel Armstrong
has doped. I know, he's never been caught, but I just feel at some point it'll come out. How else were they EVER going to keep up with the
Europeans back in the day- they didn't. They generally got shelled. Then they started keeping up and then they started winning. When
high school kids are using Performance Enhancing Drugs(make no mistake, they are), I just have no doubt that American cyclists are too.
I feel pity for Floyd. He felt pressure. He had to keep up. He had to earn money. Promoters have money to make. Sponsors want
to make money. The cycle never ends.
05-20-10, 05:51 AM
#78
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What is staggering is that Flyod's defender's now turn on him! Talk about being in denial: the time to question his credibility was when he was lying through his teeth, not now.
Truth tellers are usually detested by US cycling fans (Lemond, Millar, Kimmage, etc...), it is too bad because they are the ones helping the sport long-term.
Truth tellers are usually detested by US cycling fans (Lemond, Millar, Kimmage, etc...), it is too bad because they are the ones helping the sport long-term.
henry the drug troll gets his chance to wallow in mud. you must be thrilled.
05-20-10, 05:55 AM
#79
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LOL if you cover everyone in **** they all smell alike.
Unless there's a body there is no crime.
Where's the proof Landis?
Unless there's a body there is no crime.
Where's the proof Landis?
Last edited by x136; 05-20-10 at 09:18 AM. Reason: Filter evasion.
05-20-10, 06:00 AM
#80
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I'd have to say that are few people other than Landis that I'd like to hear from on doping.
He's been caught, took the perfunctory steps of denial and legal defense that seems to be all the rage at the moment and got burned - par for the course.
Bitter? Do you think?!?
He was at ground zero for PEDS in the peloton, has records of his own use, and nothing to lose.
Listen up folks. Floyd is a dangerous man right now and as long as he keeps talking about what he saw and what he knows (and names names) I think people would be wise to listen.
He's been caught, took the perfunctory steps of denial and legal defense that seems to be all the rage at the moment and got burned - par for the course.
Bitter? Do you think?!?
He was at ground zero for PEDS in the peloton, has records of his own use, and nothing to lose.
Listen up folks. Floyd is a dangerous man right now and as long as he keeps talking about what he saw and what he knows (and names names) I think people would be wise to listen.
05-20-10, 06:02 AM
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Last edited by x136; 05-20-10 at 09:20 AM. Reason: Filtery.
05-20-10, 06:05 AM
#82
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He'll dismiss this as the bitter rantings of a has been, allude to Landis' drinking problem, and express pity for Landis.
Armstrong wants no piece of a defamation trial. Truth is a defense, and a trial would give Landis a very public forum to lay out all the accusations to establish that defense.
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05-20-10, 06:05 AM
#83
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If Floyd would be on a top UCI team winning races right now, he wouldn't be talking. After listening to him for years categorically deny doping and even raise funds from the public for his legal defense, I don't think he's above trying to take people down out of jealousy...
05-20-10, 06:10 AM
#84
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If Floyd would be on a top UCI team winning races right now, he wouldn't be talking. After listening to him for years categorically deny doping and even raise funds from the public for his legal defense, I don't think he's above trying to take people down out of jealousy...
There's also no doubt that he would not be doing this if he had UCI Profesional Continental Team contract.
There's no doubt he's jealous, and trying to take others down with him.
There is also not much doubt that some or all of it is true.
You don't get details, with names, dates, and specifc instances, like he is setting forth if your just making it up out of the whole cloth.
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05-20-10, 06:14 AM
#85
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If Floyd would be on a top UCI team winning races right now, he wouldn't be talking. After listening to him for years categorically deny doping and even raise funds from the public for his legal defense, I don't think he's above trying to take people down out of jealousy...
Problem was that Landis wasn't really quiet about it -- really made a mess of things for all concerned except the delusional us cycling "fan" --, and consequently was left to wallow in second rate teams.... Now he's upset and spills the beans....
05-20-10, 06:16 AM
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So what. Lance Armstrong doped to win the Tour de France seven times. The real tragedy is that he might have doped to win the Leadville 100. Dave Weins is going to be pissed.
05-20-10, 06:18 AM
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It's not "woud be" but "were." Notwithstanding that, I agree wholeheartedly. Really you can see this as a breach of contract issue. The contract? You are top pro cyclist, you dope of course. you get caught (rare) and the idea is that you serve your suspension quietly don't make a fuss and then eventually you will be offered a return to a top team... Look at Basso for example... "Fighting the good fight" as the noble men of Cannondale so aptly put it!!
Problem was that Landis wasn't really quiet about it -- really made a mess of things for all concerned except the delusional us cycling "fan" --, and consequently was left to wallow in second rate teams.... Now he's upset and spills the beans....
Problem was that Landis wasn't really quiet about it -- really made a mess of things for all concerned except the delusional us cycling "fan" --, and consequently was left to wallow in second rate teams.... Now he's upset and spills the beans....
05-20-10, 06:22 AM
#93
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why do I feel like nobody sees the big picture.
when I see all sorts of language like "rampant" "everyone does it" etc for years and years, eventually I must conclude that there is some degree of truth to the idea that doping is a major component in top-level pro racing. I will still watch the races even though I know that people are on ****. I still like Tyler Hamilton. Sue me.
It ain't going to go away. Maybe if you took the stakes away then it would change, but the stakes appear to be increasing. When they develop a new testing protocol and catch a bunch of guys, the other side is busy developing new doping regimens that cannot yet be discovered.
I think if we want professional sports (especially high-stakes internationally televised competition) then we simply have to accept that human nature will assert itself. Big Deal. next issue.
when I see all sorts of language like "rampant" "everyone does it" etc for years and years, eventually I must conclude that there is some degree of truth to the idea that doping is a major component in top-level pro racing. I will still watch the races even though I know that people are on ****. I still like Tyler Hamilton. Sue me.
It ain't going to go away. Maybe if you took the stakes away then it would change, but the stakes appear to be increasing. When they develop a new testing protocol and catch a bunch of guys, the other side is busy developing new doping regimens that cannot yet be discovered.
I think if we want professional sports (especially high-stakes internationally televised competition) then we simply have to accept that human nature will assert itself. Big Deal. next issue.
05-20-10, 06:32 AM
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"...moreover saying that Armstrong tested positive once and that a financial agreement with the UCI was made in order to keep the news confidential."
Muh-oh.
Muh-oh.
05-20-10, 06:36 AM
#98
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What's more disturbing is that Landis had been using EPO for "years" and never tested positive.
Doesn't give me a whole lot of faith in those drug tests.
Doesn't give me a whole lot of faith in those drug tests.
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05-20-10, 06:37 AM
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If Floyd is telling the truth, I bet Lance and Zabriskie are kicking themselves for abandoning him. Wanting to distance themselves from him in public does not mean they had to distance themselves from him in private.
05-20-10, 06:37 AM
#100
Peloton Shelter Dog
So Landis is accusing everybody from Armstrong, Bruneeyl, Leipheimer, Zabriskie and the UC friggin I for crissake of being complicit in this doping scandal. All after four years of loudly protesting his innocence. Will he refund all the money his fans donated to him to finance his defense?
You have to wonder how some cycling fan in Peoria who sent this guy $50 to help him fight the doping charges feels after reading this story.
I agree with gsteinb, yes Jose Canseco turned out to be telling the truth. On the other hand, in comparison to Landis, Canseco had the credibility of Mother Theresa. Landis is sorely lacking in that department. But anyone with a healthy dose of skepticism has to understand that this doesn't mean some of his allegations aren't for real.
The whole fiasco is so friggin sad and disastrous for the sport it's depressing.
You have to wonder how some cycling fan in Peoria who sent this guy $50 to help him fight the doping charges feels after reading this story.
I agree with gsteinb, yes Jose Canseco turned out to be telling the truth. On the other hand, in comparison to Landis, Canseco had the credibility of Mother Theresa. Landis is sorely lacking in that department. But anyone with a healthy dose of skepticism has to understand that this doesn't mean some of his allegations aren't for real.
The whole fiasco is so friggin sad and disastrous for the sport it's depressing.