Howzit

Care to give any points at all? Or are you just going to troll your way through your comment?

daytonian

And if Schleck wins, everyone forgets about stage 3 ... that about right?

lotek 

oh for god's sake can you please leave the lance crap out of this? he had nothing to do with it,
he didn't even comment on it, said he didn't see it end of story.

I watched the replay from the moto god knows how many times and you know, to my eye Andy wasn't shifting when
that happened. I don't see 'user error' here.

Howzit, hoe gaan dit mit jou?

DXchulo

Interesting article by Zinn on why he thinks the chain dropped: https://velonews.competitor.com/2010/...ome-off_130090

ch9862

Yes, but he wasn't in yellow. I'm not sure what were they supposed to do anyway, since it happened so close to the finish line.

For me the exact reason is irrelevant. When Vino saw the guy in yellow experience bike trouble, he sat up. AC continued to put the hammer down. He can claim he didn't see it all he wants, but even if that's true, he should look more closely next time. Or he'll hear more boos.

To me, that comes with the territory - when you ride in yellow, others respect you. AC didn't.

The point I was trying to make however, was that had AC sat up, he'd gain everyone's respect. As it is, he lost respect of many.

Others may know more though.

beavertoof

BIG +1 on this... Caca-Dor's a worm!

FriendlyFred

Do you honestly think AC gives a rat's damn what any of us think of him? AC doesn't know any of us even exist. He's interested in one thing right now....winning the Tour. Sure, he put out an apology video NOW, but that's just damage control. He saw a chance and he took it.

btw...to repeat a theme a few others have mentioned....where was all of the hubris when Saxo Bank nullified stage 3? I like AS and would dearly love to be able to climb like him, but jeez, cry me a river. Boo hoo. He attacked, made a mistake with how he shifted, dropped the chain, and everyone else took advantage of his mistake. That's racing. If he doesn't like it, let him go take the yellow away from AC on the road. Maybe if his team hadn't isolated him, so there was no one there to help IF he had a problem, he would still be in yellow (until he lost it in the final TT)

Bacciagalupe

OK, I may be as guilty as anyone else of dragging this crap out but I think it's over now. Contador apologized, Andy accepted the apology:

" ''We are fine now,'' Schleck said. ''The Tour de France isn't going to be won by eight seconds, and there's going to be a big race between him and me the day after tomorrow.'' "

'Nuff said.

dsh

I like Andy being diplomatic, but this is going to be a pretty close podium, and nobody knows better than Schleck how important those forty seconds could be.

OrionKhan

He wasn't diplomatic yesterday when he was talking about how angry he was and how he would get his revenge tomorrow (stage 16). I think Andy was probably just a pissed at himself. He knows he goofed up. I think in retrospect he probably doesn't blame AC that much for attacking. After all, Andy was attacking AC when he threw the chain.

SouthFLpix

According to this report, the chain fell off largely because Andy's team opted not to install his chain protector in order to save 50 grams of weight for the climb.

https://www.sbrforum.com/Betting+Arti...ift-power.aspx

OrionKhan

Well, Andy wasn't in yellow when he crashed and Cancellara shut the stage down. See, it goes both ways. Andy got a HUGE benefit there. Otherwise he would still be down a couple of minutes. I

think people are being selective as to when they expect this "sportsmanship" of the tour to shine. Andy was on the attack and most likely caused his own mechanical problem. That's on him. Nobody crashed in front of him. It wasn't a random puncture. His chain didn't break. It most likely was some sort of mis-shift. A mistake on his part. At what point does he become absolved of blame in this. Its not like Andy has been kickin' AC's butt all over the place. They each have dropped the other guy once and gained about 10s on both occasions. Otherwise, they're both even. Whining about Andy loosing his yellow is just belly aching. Because he's fortunate to not be down a couple of minutes from his earlier misfortune.

This whole respect thing is bullcrap. These guys are nothing more than great bike racers. You're respect has absolutely nothing to do with it. The Tour history is full of controversy, doping, and poor sportsmanship. This idea that there is a nobility that goes beyond other sports is BS. They're human beings just like everyone else and subject to the same transgressions as everyone else. This respect you have is based up a vision of what you HOPE these guys are. But you don't know them. You only see and read very small snipits of their lives. So let it go and just enjoy them for what they are, great bike racers.

Barese Rider

Well said. Rules are hard enough to follow when theyre written in books. When theyre unwritten theyre subject to very loose intrepretation.

DXchulo

I find that hard to believe. Bikes are mostly under the limit now anyway, aren't they? Just look at the following link and they show you RadioShack's method of adding weight: https://velonews.competitor.com/2010/...k-bikes_130446

They also had a video on VeloNews where they caught up with the mechanics after the race. They show them washing the bike and you can see the chain catcher on there. Maybe they put it on there real quick after the stage, but that's hard to believe. (https://video.competitor.com/2010/07/...tage-15-extra/)

50 grams sounds really heavy for a chain catcher, too.

ch9862

1. Sorry for dragging this out, I have spotty net access.
2. I'm not pro-AS, anti-AC, etc.


As I wrote earlier, that's on Fabian. Since everyone decided to follow his lead, we got controversy. But note, that peloton did follow MJ there.


That's your call, which I'm guessing you made after watching replay. But when MJ has bike trouble, I'd like to see the guy behind him sit up, not attack. Or rationalize that "it must have been rider's error; besides I can later pretend I didn't see it". I have no problem with breakaway up the field riding on full speed, and do not expect the race to stop. But I'd like to see GT winner act like one.


You're reading too much into my post. But your definition of "great" is certainly different from mine .


Others may know more though.

OrionKhan

This is what's happened during the race:
Andy benefited greatly from Fabian neutralizing the stage after Andy crashed and was behind AC and the other contenders by a couple of minutes on stage 2.
Andy benefited greatly when most of the field, including the MJ wearer and chief rival AC, got stuck behind Franks crash on stage 3. Andy gained over a minute on that stage if you include the time AC lost due to the broken wheel.
Andy was attacking AC (and Menchov/Sanchez) when he had his mechanical issue stage 15. AC, Menchov, and Sanchez continued on and attacked. Now everyone is upset that AC didn't wait for Andy to catch up, again. This time from a self-inflicted issue.
Andy thought about it the next day. He and Contador spoke. During an interview and mentioned the events of stage 2 (https://velonews.competitor.com/2010/...hatchet_130287) Andy and AC are over it. Yet people keep throwing around this term of "honor". The Tour has ripe history of honorable acts, dishonorable, and controversial ones somewhere in between.

A big part of winning a grand tour is surviving to the end. What if Andy had his cleat come loose on the pedal while he was attacking? Does everyone have to stop for that. Where do you draw the line? Just because he's wearing the yellow, doesn't mean he's exempted from all possible mishaps. And its not like he'd done something to particularly warrant wearing the yellow. He was in it as a result of one of these racing incidents. Cripes, its a bike race. Races are full of racing incidents like crashes and such.

BTW, my definition of great bike racers only is a reference to their abilities on bikes. I've long ago learned not to judge athletes personalities. We only ever see a small glimpse of who they are. And in the end it doesn't matter to me. I only enjoy watching the sporting event. They are athletes. Nothing more. If I want role models or heroes, I'll look elsewhere.

hurley.girl

I haven't read the last few pages, but has anyone noticed that AC wasn't the only one who took advantage of the mechanical. Menchov and Sanchez also went, and they passed AS as he was dismounting so there can be no doubt they knew what had happened. None of these guys tried to get the others to ease up (I'm thinking along the lines of Tyler Hamilton after Lance went through the field). All three pressed the attack. Yet I'm only hearing complaints lodged against AC.

lotek 

you know, if just one of these guys would have said enough of this BS and really went out to
win the tour than this wouldn't be an issue. Stage 14 track stand, marking each other continuously.
We need a rider to go out and actually win the damned race, not mamby-pamby around.

with a 3 or 4 minute (or more) difference that 30 seconds lost for the chain wouldn't matter at all.

Marty

USAZorro

Are you a former drill sergeant?

lotek 

no but I love that commercial !!!!!

dsh

Menchov and Sanchez didn't have a choice. Once Contador went they had to, or risk losing a lot of time.

mIkEymIkE

good article.... So to sum it up SRAM rear derailleurs are at fault because they have that looped tab? Well not likely IMO
The beginning of the articel states the snag of the chain between chain catcher and inner chain ring may be the cause due to mechanic not properly installing the chain catcher close enough. That IMO is the exact reason as to why the chain fell off.

Right when the chain came off, the video shows Andy trying to shift with his left hand trying to get the chain back onto the inner chain ring. Also the article states its a K-Edge Chain Catcher. Well its not. Andy's chain catcher looks like some flat piece catcher that has a hard edge. K-Edge's chain catcher is more aero and flat facing with the chainrings.

Whats happened to Andy has happened to me. If you don't tighted the chain catcher tight enough to the FD bolt it can easily pivot outwards when if the chain hops and get caught and jammed between catcher and inner chainring say bub bye to pedalling, cause the chain will be off

Andys chain catcher



https://a.imagehost.org/0886/schlecks_chaincatcher2.png
https://a.imagehost.org/0685/schlecks_chaincatcher3.png
https://j.imagehost.org/0344/schlecks_chaincatcher4.png

curiouskid55

Schleck attacks the field in what is basically the finale of the stage, Vino and the contenders counter attack, Schleck faulters, all contenders sit up? In what universe? The race was on, your either in it or out. I was disppointed for Alberto, with more maturity he might have organized a gesture to Schleck, but more disappointed by Schlecks poor sportsmanship ans extremely immature response after the race.

Keith99

I don't. But then I actually have competed at a high level (not in cycling). I have seen for years how players are right after a match. Then before their heartbeat has returned to normal (and in some cases before they can even speak normally because they are so out of breath) someone sticks a mike in their face hoping for controversy.

I'll remember comments made after cooling down. Those are a better reflection of a riders character.

dsh

You got the order slightly wrong here.

1. Schleck attacks
2. Vino counters
3. Schleck falters and sits down
4. Contador attacks
5. Menchov and Sanchez follow