because up until now, Floyd was the definition of credible... :rolleyes:
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Landis has no credibility whatsoever. But if he act as the catalyst that brings in the Feds, the whole pro code of silence about this crap will crumble like a stale Oreo. There will be so many former team mates and employees implicating Lance and Bruneeyl that the truth will finally be exposed in my view.
What good will that do for cycling? None. It will be a negative all the way around. It will deep six Livestrong too. I'm trying to see the point, but it eludes me completely. The battle against doping in today's pro ranks won't be made easier by dragging skeletons out of ten year old closets or burning Lance and Johann at the stake. Sorry. |
Originally Posted by AnthonyG
(Post 11054131)
Floyd's denial of doping wasn't to protect himself, it was to protect the TEAM and by extension Lance Armstrong.
You knew this already. He did what he thought was expected of him but in the end it got too much for his conscience. Anthony Again, I believe most of what he says. He's still a slimeball. |
That explains why one of my drug dealer clients had a USPostal painted Trek 5.9SSL in the inventory of seized items when he was raided by the ATF two years ago. And here I just thought that he stole it. Maybe I should file a motion and ask FL to sign an affidavit. ;)
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Originally Posted by patentcad
(Post 11054172)
Landis has no credibility whatsoever. But if he act as the catalyst that brings in the Feds, the whole pro code of silence about this crap will crumble like a stale Oreo. There will be so many former team mates and employees implicating Lance and Bruneeyl that the truth will finally be exposed in my view.
What good will that do for cycling? None. It will be a negative all the way around. It will deep six Livestrong too. I'm trying to see the point, but it eludes me completely. The battle against doping in today's pro ranks won't be made easier by dragging skeletons out of ten year old closets or burning Lance and Johann at the stake. Sorry. |
Originally Posted by Chris_F
(Post 11053993)
Hey, Floyd said he didn't dope. He wrote a book about it. He's clearly lying about doping now. And I can only assume he's lying about this too. I think they probably simply lost the bikes in the mail and, given their sponsor, were too embarrassed to go public about it.
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Originally Posted by AnthonyG
(Post 11054131)
Floyd's denial of doping wasn't JUST to protect himself, it was to protect the TEAM and by extension Lance Armstrong.
You knew this already. He did what he thought was expected of him but in the end it got too much for his conscience. Anthony There is HUGE group pressure in situations like this to NOT fall on ones sword and admit to ANYTHING. As soon as you do fall on your own sword, for whatever reason, and admit to something you become a pariah. This is the way of the world and this is what happened. Anthony |
well........maybe Trek didn't supply all 120 bikes at once. There would be little need to and doing so would prevent them from supplying updated models later in the year.
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Maybe I'm crazy but I would think they wouldn't need to sell bikes to pay for doping. If they wanted to dope they could find a less obvious way to get the cash, what do I know.
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Originally Posted by patentcad
(Post 11054172)
Landis has no credibility whatsoever. But if he act as the catalyst that brings in the Feds, the whole pro code of silence about this crap will crumble like a stale Oreo. There will be so many former team mates and employees implicating Lance and Bruneeyl that the truth will finally be exposed in my view.
What good will that do for cycling? None. It will be a negative all the way around. It will deep six Livestrong too. I'm trying to see the point, but it eludes me completely. The battle against doping in today's pro ranks won't be made easier by dragging skeletons out of ten year old closets or burning Lance and Johann at the stake. Sorry. In some cases whatever the outcome is if a spec of this comes to light as being true and all this crap gets dragged out to long, this could kill some of the cycling market in the US. A lot of people will not admit it but LA and Crew from his Postal Team to Current RS Team has help stimulate US bike sales and increased interest in Pro cycling and just cycling in general. damn not sure if any of that just made sense... |
Landis doesn't have much credibility, however I tend to believe him here. Maybe not all of it, but it wouldn't surprise me at all to find out that there was systematic doping in the pro ranks. If true and it all comes out, then ultimately it could be good for cycling. There will be renewed interest in getting the sport clean and in 5 or 10 years, it may end up being so.
On the other hand, it will cause a tremendous amount of destruction. Sponsors will flee leaving teams out flapping in the wind. A lot of good causes will be hit with very bad publicity and end up folding. There will be a lot of people left without work. It will be very ugly. All to salve the conscious of 1 person. Very selfish of him. |
Originally Posted by Bah Humbug
(Post 11054249)
You just said it was negative all the way around. I'd love to never have to see another of those yellow bracelets.
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Originally Posted by JoelS
(Post 11054443)
All to salve the conscious of 1 person. Very selfish of him.
In fact you have made the devil's pitch. "Sure, we may have cheated but your being selfish in admitting to it because of all the good causes that will be harmed when you do". This is how the devil rules our world. This may seem like a trivial example to you but the devil is ingrained deeply in humanity. The other way of looking at it is that if no one had cheated in the first place then the cheaters wouldn't have brought the world down on our heads when it was finally exposed. Anthony |
True **** p
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Interesting that this comes out right before the TdF. Landis sounds like a dipshyt.
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Originally Posted by AnthonyG
(Post 11054486)
NO, this is incorrect.
In fact you have made the devil's pitch. "Sure, we may have cheated but your being selfish in admitting to it because of all the good causes that will be harmed when you do". This is how the devil rules our world. This may seem like a trivial example to you but the devil is ingrained deeply in humanity. The other way of looking at it is that if no one had cheated in the first place then the cheaters wouldn't have brought the world down on our heads when it was finally exposed. Anthony |
Originally Posted by patentcad
(Post 11054172)
Landis has no credibility whatsoever. But if he act as the catalyst that brings in the Feds, the whole pro code of silence about this crap will crumble like a stale Oreo. There will be so many former team mates and employees implicating Lance and Bruneeyl that the truth will finally be exposed in my view.
What good will that do for cycling? None. It will be a negative all the way around. It will deep six Livestrong too. I'm trying to see the point, but it eludes me completely. The battle against doping in today's pro ranks won't be made easier by dragging skeletons out of ten year old closets or burning Lance and Johann at the stake. Sorry. I would like to believe Lance never doped, but I think too much points the other way (even without landis). I don't think much less of the guy because of it, I really believe it was a key part of the sport (and may still be). The only way you'll keep young pro athletes from doing this crap when big $'s and glory are on the line is to improve the testing and increase the penalties IMO. |
Originally Posted by patentcad
(Post 11054471)
I wonder how you'll feel about Livestrong after cancer devastates your life in some way?
If pro cycling can survive the mess, it'll be better off for it. If it doesn't, there will be another league and racing will continue on. |
I am fully with pcad on that last post.
On topic now. I think landis is full of ****. Like someone pointed out, he started his accusations up after radio shack didn't let him ride with the team in ToC. I personally feel he is doing this all for some sort of twisted revenge on lance. Not to sure what that revenge is though. I don't see how a man that was tested up to three times a day during the Tour and random testing all year could dope and NOT get caught. Someone correct me if i am wrong on some of that though. Nicely please. By the way its gonna be a blast when this hits the mainstream and all of our noncycling friends think they know everything there is to know about the situation. |
Originally Posted by AnthonyG
(Post 11054272)
OK, I'm editing this to say that he wasn't JUST protecting himself but also the team and by extension LA.
There is HUGE group pressure in situations like this to NOT fall on ones sword and admit to ANYTHING. As soon as you do fall on your own sword, for whatever reason, and admit to something you become a pariah. This is the way of the world and this is what happened. Anthony I believe LA doped and I don't really care. All Floyd is doing now is creating a circus and making himself look like the biggest clown. |
Originally Posted by WCroadie
(Post 11054503)
How do you know there is huge pressure in situations like these, were you in this situation before?
Its the human condition. I didn't need to be there. I just needed to know myself. Anthony |
You guys are too distracted by the doping, bike-selling on the Internet, strippers and cocaine. You missed the real scandal:
Originally Posted by BengeBoy
(Post 11053940)
From tomorrow's Wall Street Journal (online now):
"In March 2004, during an eight-day race from Paris to Nice, Mr. Landis said he was in position to win the sixth stage when his bike frame snapped. He blamed the mishap on the bike's carbon frame, which, he said, had been weakened by wear and tear. What we need to know is whether Trek honored the warranty. |
Originally Posted by BengeBoy
(Post 11054522)
You guys are too distracted by the doping, bike-selling on the Internet, strippers and cocaine. You missed the real scandal:
What we need to know is whether Trek honored the warranty. |
Originally Posted by patentcad
(Post 11054471)
I wonder how you'll feel about Livestrong after cancer devastates your life in some way?
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K now i take back my agreeing with pcad part. Sorry to hear that Bah Humbug.
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