heckler

the hookers and blow still sound more illegal than the doping issue, consirancy and all. maybe the bike money was spent on that.

HardyWeinberg

Mixed Martial Arts?

Shuke

We're not forgetting about it. Part of Landis's explanation for coming out with this stuff when he did is that the expiration on the statute of limitations for some of the purported illegal activity is occurring within the next year. The problem with bringing up statutes of limitations is that each state has different laws regarding different crimes. Generally homicide and receiving stolen property do not have limitations on the time frame for prosecution. The rest varies.

Shuke

The difference is that the national guard is sponsoring the NFL, not the specific teams or athletes. An analogous example would be if Nike sponsored Michael Vick and he was selling the shoes and clothes they gave him to buy dog fighting equipment or if they sponsored Plaxico Burrus and he was using the money to buy unregistered handguns.

Blood doping is not in itself criminally illegal. Feel free to spin your blood cells until the cows come home. EPO however is a controlled substance. You cannot go to Walgreens and buy a dose of EPO over the counter, you need a doctor to get it and that doctor needs to sign off that you need it for medical reasons...not that you need it to boost your blood cell count so you can ride the Alps faster.

Regarding the UCI. How can we trust the UCI when it allegedly accepts $100,000 donations from athletes that it governs over? How can we trust them when they allegedly pre-announce the doping control tests?

If BALCO taught us anything it's that the US Government takes its doping scandals seriously. Whoever said "follow the money" is spot on.

Gunvald Larsson

A little less arrogance and ignorance, please.

Gunvald Larsson

Neither did some of the people that have confessed to it (cue Telekom). According to your logic that makes them clean because they didn't get caught.

gpsblake

Lance did nothing more then what all the big names at the time were doing. In my opinion, Lance merely evened out the field.

The key is if Landis is testifying to the feds, then he's not immune from perjury or giving false statements. If they get Lance, they will probably have to get some of his fellow cyclist first and offer them plea deals to testify against Lance.

prettyshady

Dear Floyd,
why did you wait till the start of the tour to drop all this information. Did you want to ruin the tour, ruin my afternoons of watching an old retired great try and beat the new best in the world cyclist (on differnt teams this year so it should be better) Its going to be a great race to watch, I hope you don't dick it up.

rousseau

I think that would be "un-American."

do-well

Only one problem with your reasoning; we are not discussing this in a court of law.

telebianchi

It was my understanding from an SI article that there could also be issues with the use of US federal money from the USPS sponsorship being used for illegal activities (those listed above). https://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/201...ong/index.html

Cat4Lifer

I tend to agree with some of your POV on this thread, but wouldn't you agree that your "analysis" is "simple" as well?

Wouldn't you agree that it is more or just as likely that those who dismiss Landis as being a credible witness do so because in order to defend himself against charges of doping:

• he authored Positively False: The Real Story Of How I Won the Tour De France ?
• he lied to those who donated to the Floyd Fairness Fund?
• he said that the "...anti-doping program [is] run by people so incompetent they couldn't even run a Ralph's grocery store....[and] they wrecked my life?" (emphasis added)
• he went on Larry King Live February 2010 and said he never took PEDs?

Furthermore, he:

• apparently tried to blackmail Tour of California race officials into allowing him and his then team to race the TOC.
• apparently tired to blackmail Team Radio Shack into putting him on their team roster.
• still maintains that he did not use synthetic testosterone during the 2006 Tour de France.

So what we have in Landis is a guy who:

• for years, blamed others for "wrecking" his life.
• lied to generate income to defend his lie of non-doping.
• maintained his innocence of doping until May of this year; and then when it became clear to him that his attempts at blackmail failed, he "came clean," by accusing several riders and team owners of participating in doping, and by, of course, admitting that he too doped, but he didn't admit to using what he had tested positive for (synthetic testosterone).

In short, Landis has shown himself to be a shameless liar who has no qualms with disparaging others in order to place him in a good light. And to add to that, he, during his "purging process," seems to be keenly aware of his legal relationship with those who donated to his Floyd Fairness Fund, as he still claims to have been wrongly stripped of his 2006 Tour De France win. Is it probable, if not possible, that it is for all the above reasons that Landis is dismissed as having little to no credibility? I mean, you do agree that your overview--Landis being dismissed as having no credibility whatsoever because he "named Team Lance specifically"--is simplistic too, right?

cacatfish

I didnt read Floyds book and I didnt even follow the whole drama or form an opinion one way or the other as far as it went. It sure sounds like he's telling some truth in the WSJ article just because of the details he gives: about the apartment in Spain, the doping on the bus, the test patches, etc. Yeah it could all be made up, but how does someone come up with all these strange scenarios.
I understand why people would doubt his word now that he has admitted to being a liar, but I think you also need to appreciate the differences between the last stories and these. His denial was one done to basically save his entire cycling career, sponsors, money, TDF trophy etc. It seems like every guy who has gotten popped for that has denied it: Vino, Basso, Valverde etc. In this case, you have to appreciate that the same motivations to lie are not there. Yes he probably does want revenge, but how that could compare to the prior situation seems a weak match.
I will watch with interest just because....Lance is such a phenomon now, far beyond cycling, it will be a pretty damn interesting ordeal. It is certainly being picked up in many non cycling sources now.
Regardless if Lance doped, I think any thinking person will still say he is a monster of a cyclist and, either way, probably the best of his time.

guadzilla

Most telling - the Trek attorney has admitted that they were aware that Postal bikes were being sold.

BengeBoy 

Again, it doesn't matter at this point whether people believe Landis or not - the feds are on the case.

Yesterday, it was announced that the WADA (Worldwide Anti Doping Agency) was involved, and the the US federal investigators working on this are now cooperating with Interpol to track down leads in Europe. Agence France Presse also said that WADA reported that sources are "cooperating" with the investigation.

Forget Landis; that's a side show at this point.

Landis doping probe is 'significant' - WADA chief
(AFP) – 1 day ago
LAUSANNE, Switzerland — Disgraced champion Floyd Landis's allegations about doping in cycling have sparked a "significant" inquiry that could take months to complete, a world anti-doping chief said Tuesday.
David Howman, Director General of the World Anti Doping Agency, told AFP that WADA had helped US investigators establish cooperation with European counterparts through Interpol as the probe broadens.
Landis's claims in May prompted the US authorities to launch a federal investigation led by Food and Drug Administration (FDA) special agent Jeff Novitzky, who dismantled a key doping network in the United States before.
"This investigation has been going on for many weeks and I think it is a significant inquiry," Howman said.
"And it's one that might go on for many more weeks because it essentially started with a US inquiry and is spreading," he explained.
"We've been persuading people to cooperate and think that would be helpful."
Landis, a former member of US Postal, won the Tour de France in 2006 while riding for Phonak, only to be stripped of the title after testing positive for testosterone.
Having consistently claimed his innocence for years, the American finally confessed to doping last month.

Ariostea

All teams sell bikes throughout the season. I had one DS offer me a TT frame just weeks before the Tour.

acrafton

• apparently tried to blackmail Tour of California race officials into allowing him and his then team to race the TOC.
• apparently tired to blackmail Team Radio Shack into putting him on their team roster.
• still maintains that he did not use synthetic testosterone during the 2006 Tour de France.

These are the reasons I don't trust him. . .bullet 3 makes no sense at all. He admits doping for years to secure his place in the pro peloton but denies he doped when he won the biggest cycling event in the world and put in one of the most impressive rides of tour history.

Clearly if he was doping to get there (he started the Phonak doping program) he would have continued to dope so he is still lying.

AMFJ

^Landis doesn't deny doping during the 06 TDF. he denies using testosterone. He doesn't deny using really anything else. He is claiming now they busted him for the wrong drug.


As was said before--bikes being sold creates a cash trail. Whether it leads to doping measures, tax issues or nicely kept legal books doesn't matter--it creates a trail that can fairly easily be followed. Time and some smart accountant will give a result eventually.

Skankingbiker

To repond to the "sports don't matter" comments:

Sporting events serve many purposes: they provide entertainment (and a opiate) to the masses, generate revenue for business, and when national teams compete, they re-affirm national identity.

However, much like religion used to do, sports also provide a canvas on which people can paint their hopes and dreams. It gives people something to believe in. Why are there sports heroes? Becaue people feel a need to believe that the man from nowehere can rise to the top, that the underdog can comeback, that people set back in life can overcome struggles through effort and willpower, that in the end, the best will prevail, and that anyone who tries hard enough can make it.

Is this all phoney BS? Probably. But people need it nonetheless.

Yes, taking down LA will hurt the sport and cause a lot of damage. But in today's cynical world, where everything is fake, personalities are created in conference rooms, and no one trusts anyone else, people also need a little justice. Sorry, I do not buy the "too big to fail" logic that is used to excuse bad behavior, whether it be from corporations or sports stars.

I have no personal stake in the LA/FL controversy. I do care about the truth. Like many others, I bought Landis' book, was deceived, and feel betrayed. Even though I think he is a whiney, lying, little hipocritical brat, much of what he is saying makes too much sense.

However, I neither believe nor disbelieve what FL is saying at this point. I do believe that what he says is plausible, and I will keep an open mind until the investigation is over.

BengeBoy 

New story in WSJ says the FTC probe is focused on getting riders to provide information that can be used against team directors and team principals who helped riders with their doping programs:

The WSJ story follows:

"A federal probe into doping in professional cycling is proceeding quickly, and investigators are currently in discussions with several riders and their attorneys to secure their cooperation after the Tour de France ends later this month.

The U.S. criminal investigation, which is being led by the Food and Drug Administration, isn't aimed at prosecuting rank-and-file riders who used performance-enhancing drugs during their careers, according to people familiar with the investigation. Rather, it is designed to potentially bring charges against any team leaders and team directors who may have facilitated or encouraged doping by their riders.
FDA special agent Jeff Novitzky, the lead investigator, didn't return calls seeking comment.

It's unclear how many riders have spoken to investigators or agreed to be interviewed at a future date. Two people familiar with the matter say Mr. Novitzky already has talked to several riders.

Cyclist George Hincapie of the BMC professional cycling team, now competing in the Tour de France, has been called by Mr. Novitzky but hasn't talked directly to him. One person familiar with the matter said that Mr. Hincapie's lawyer has been talking to investigators and that Mr. Hincapie is likely to agree to talk to Mr. Novitzky when he returns to the U.S. Mr. Hincapie is a former teammate of seven-time Tour de France winner Lance Armstrong on the U.S. Postal Service cycling team.

Mr. Hincapie's Los Angeles attorney, Zia F. Modabber, confirmed that he had talked to Mr. Novitzky on Mr. Hincapie's behalf but declined to discuss the specifics of his conversation. "My desire is to let George do his job with as few distractions as possible," he said.

American cyclist Tyler Hamilton, who rode with Mr. Armstrong's U.S. Postal Service team from 1995 to 2001, has been asked to speak with investigators but has not yet agreed.

In an email, Mr. Hamilton, whose career was derailed by two positive tests for banned substances, said: "I am aware that there is an investigation of other people in progress, and if I am subpoenaed to provide information, I will provide my full cooperation."

In addition to the FDA, anti-doping officials in the U.S. and in a handful of other countries have joined the investigation. Interpol, the international police organization, has helped bring other law enforcement agencies into the probe.
"The investigation has reached out pretty widely," said David Howman, director general of the World Anti-Doping Agency, who says his agency has been updated on the investigation. "There has been significant progress."
The U.S. government's interest in cycling stems from allegations made this spring by former cyclist Floyd Landis.

In April, Mr. Landis sent a series of emails to cycling officials claiming there had been widespread doping in the sport and accusing several other riders of doping, including Mr. Armstrong, his former teammate.
Investigators are focused primarily on Mr. Landis's allegations concerning the U.S. Postal Service team, but the probes may include other riders and teams in the U.S. and other countries, according to people familiar with the situation.

In Mr. Landis's emails, which were first published in The Wall Street Journal, he admitted doping himself and described the methods he said he had seen while riding for the U.S. Postal Service cycling team and with the Phonak team.

In later interviews with the Journal, Mr. Landis said he had seen Mr. Armstrong and several other riders take prohibited blood transfusions and receive them himself during the 2004 Tour de France.
Transfusions, which enhance performance by boosting a rider's red-blood cell count, are considered cheating by the International Cycling Union, the sport's governing body. Mr. Landis was stripped of his 2006 Tour de France title after failing a drug test. He denied doping back then, but recently changed his story.


Mr. Armstrong has broadly dismissed Mr. Landis's allegations and has questioned his credibility. Mr. Landis's claims, he said in a statement last week, are like "a carton of sour milk: once you take the first sip, you don't have to drink the rest to know it has all gone bad." The statement also said the Wall Street Journal article was "full of false accusations and more of the same old news from Floyd Landis, a person with zero credibility and an established pattern of recanting tomorrow what he swears to today."

It is unclear what kinds of charges federal investigators might bring. People familiar with the matter say they are exploring several avenues, including whether teams defrauded sponsors by failing to race cleanly or whether Mr. Armstrong's U.S. Postal Service team misused federal funds.

In the wake of Mr. Landis's disclosures, some riders and team officials are stepping forward with similar stories. In an interview in Vienna this week with Dow Jones Newswires, former pro cyclist Bernhard Kohl, who quit professional cycling after a positive drug test in 2008, said Mr. Landis's descriptions of doping rang true.

"That was exactly the way I also did it," said Mr. Kohl, referring to Mr. Landis's allegation that he and other U.S. Postal riders received blood transfusions during the tour in a hotel room. "The details of the blood bags and the checking for cameras and microphones, the cutting up of the bags and flushing them in the toilet, it all took place in exactly that way," he added.

The Belgian cycling union said this week that Johan Bruyneel, former director of the U.S. Postal Service team, had been questioned by the union's attorney in charge of investigating doping claims. Mr. Bruyneel "formally denied" Mr. Landis's allegations, the union said in a statement.

The union said that investigating attorney Jaak Fransen "will now complete the file and will take actions that are deemed necessary," but would make no further comment.

Mr. Bruyneel didn't reply to an email seeking comment."

BengeBoy 

NY Times on July 13 - now reporting that prosecutors are issuing subpoenas to witnesses to testify in front of a grand jury.

Notice that, according to this story, that Floyd Landis *isn't even being called as a witness.* As noted above, Floyd's job is done, they are now going after other witnesses to testify.

" Federal authorities investigating possible fraud and doping charges against Lance Armstrong and his associates have issued grand jury subpoenas to witnesses, according to several people briefed on the case.
The people spoke on the condition of anonymity because they did not want to be identified discussing a federal investigation.
The grand jury subpoenas are a significant next step in the investigation and demonstrate how seriously the authorities are taking Floyd Landis’s allegations.
Landis, who has met several times with the lead agent on the case, Jeff Novitzky, is not believed to be among the witnesses the authorities want to question before the grand jury at this point.
The federal investigation was kick-started this year when Landis, the Tour de France winner in 2006, told investigators that he and other riders on the United States Postal Service team had engaged in doping in the early to mid 2000’s. In particular, Landis said that the team had used its funds to buy doping products and that Armstrong had encouraged doping on the team. "

Edit: The NY Daily News is now reporting that Trek is one of the parties summoned to testify:

https://www.nydailynews.com/sports/mo...rug_probe.html

tridavis

Boy, this is really going to get ugly. But I hope it cleans up cycling once and for all!!!!!!

Copperhed51

Why our government is wasting time getting involved in all these sports is beyond me. Honestly if they're all doping, that's fine. If they can actually put an end to the doping entirely, that's fine too. Either way, all I really want to see is an even playing field.

Thulsadoom

None of it is helping. In the long run, dredging up the past just impedes the development of the future.

Jed19

If you care about the truth, then you should welcome this investigation. I am tired of being hoodwinked and taken for a sucker by some of this athletes/scumbags.

I say let the subpoenas fly!

Landis is probably not gonna be called before the grand jury because he is not a target. He most likely has obtained some kind of immunity from prosecution. At this point, investigators are most likely looking for others to corroborate what Landis has told them. This is how the Feds work.

The best thing to do for some of these guys right now is to explore some kind of deals with investigators. Some guys are gonna go down, and it's not gonna be pretty.

I definitely respect the Feds for going after the charade that professional cycling has become. Tell me, who is suppose to clean up the sport when regulatory officials are taking big donations from athletes? The whole professional cycling scene just stinks right now.