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This Has To Be Cleared, Contador's Attack, Schlecks "Bad Luck"

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This Has To Be Cleared, Contador's Attack, Schlecks "Bad Luck"

Old 07-20-10, 05:52 PM
  #26  
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Originally Posted by canam73 View Post
Pardon me for interupting the thread, but I'm a non racer with quick question.

Is what Contador did considered that much different then when Schleck followed Cancellara's charge after Contador was delayed by Frank's crash and Armstrong got his flat? I am genuinly wondering.
No. And the key point is that in both cases the race was on and the problem was not external. If they had been jsut riding along at a good pace, good enough to stress lesser riders but no problem for any of the contenders and A rider had a mechanical, or dropped back for water or... and someone attached at that point then it would have been different. Or if it had been like the musette bag incident with Lance or the like then it would have been different.
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Old 07-20-10, 06:31 PM
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Originally Posted by canam73 View Post
Pardon me for interupting the thread, but I'm a non racer with quick question.

Is what Contador did considered that much different then when Schleck followed Cancellara's charge after Contador was delayed by Frank's crash and Armstrong got his flat? I am genuinly wondering.
As others have said no. I would add that Contador's situation wasn't as bad because Andy was attacking him in the first place and then he goofed up. Frank's crash effected a lot of other riders through no fault of their own who were just riding behind him. Andy and the other Saxo boy's then charged ahead knowing that the field was stopped. This is completely contrary to the stage where Andy crashed and his teammate, Cancellara, caused the stage to be regulated so Andy, who was a couple of minutes behind, could catch up. At this point, its fairly safe to say that Andy did something to cause his own misfortune while he was on the attack in stage 15. There's no reason for everyone to stop and wait for Andy, again.

The people that are really upset with Contador, generally, had a dislike of him prior to the incident in stage 15.
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Old 07-20-10, 08:09 PM
  #28  
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Originally Posted by Keith99 View Post
You have no idea what you are talking about. The 'unwritten rules' were not responsible for the pace of todays stage.
Actually, you have no idea what I am talking about.

For all the talk, AS stated he has anger, media talk, forum talk, equipment talk, blah, blah... Summed up by me as 'those unwritten rules'...

So if you please... Today's racing was, surprisingly, very golf-like to watch.
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Old 07-20-10, 08:50 PM
  #29  
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Originally Posted by Howzit View Post
...USAZorro, I apologize for my repetetive nature on the subject, but I need to clear ingnorance, especialy when it is this thick, and as of yet, there is not one single rebuttle with substance to argue the facts....
Apology accepted. Thank you.

I don't think anyone here would begrudge a discussion about what caused the failure. On the contrary, I think people are quite curious to figure out what happened. However, your initial tone was rather "over the top", and you posted your hypothesis/conclusions in several different threads. I was wondering if you had obtained a job in marketing for Campagnolo.

Ranting and sarcasm makes it easier for people to discount the content of your posting, especially since there were rather obvious exaggerations in the first postings. A more measured tone is usually much more conducive to participative discussions, and to people putting credence in what you are stating. I realize this can be a challenge if English is not your first language, but you do seem to have a rather remarkable fluency with it none-the-less. If you wish to continue the discussion, please feel free to, but let's keep it to one place, please.
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Old 07-20-10, 09:31 PM
  #30  
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Yes, 5 of the top 6 finishers (including the entire podium) last year got there by using unproven and inferior equipment.
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Old 07-20-10, 09:57 PM
  #31  
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I think Contador did the right thing and he's probably going to win the tour and gues what....nobody is going to care!

However imagine if he had stopped, waited for AS, then finished with him. It would have been legendary, by the far the highlight of the tour, Contador would have been hailed as a hero even if he lost the tour. Cycling has become a dark and tainted sport full of greed, lies, and distruct. Contador had a golden opportunity to restore some desperately needed honor and dignity to the sport of cycling and he blew it. Honestly I feel sad for him and for the sport.
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Old 07-20-10, 10:02 PM
  #32  
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Originally Posted by lotek View Post
I think the race should have been neutralized until Shimano had 11 speed and Campy had 11 speed electronic shifting
A voice of reason.

It's a bike race folks. Websters defines "race" as "a contest of speed". They don't mention waiting.
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Old 07-20-10, 11:11 PM
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Originally Posted by TrainerMicDude View Post
I think Contador did the right thing and he's probably going to win the tour and gues what....nobody is going to care!

However imagine if he had stopped, waited for AS, then finished with him. It would have been legendary, by the far the highlight of the tour, Contador would have been hailed as a hero even if he lost the tour. Cycling has become a dark and tainted sport full of greed, lies, and distruct. Contador had a golden opportunity to restore some desperately needed honor and dignity to the sport of cycling and he blew it. Honestly I feel sad for him and for the sport.
Exactly what Tour de France are you referring to? Your statement based upon a fantasy. Go out and actually learn about the history of the race before making that statement. The tour has always been ripe with controversy, greed, lies, and distrust. This is the case with all professional sports. The only difference is the amount of immediate worldwide media coverage. The idea that there was nothing but nobility in the past is a farce. We have much more aggressive, direct, invasive, and competitive media today. The sport is the same its the coverage that's different. Controversy sells.

If we're talking "honor", imagine if Schleck had slowed during stage 3 when the rest of the contenders were stuck behind the crash of his teammate and brother, Frank. Andy gained 53s plus another 20s because AC had a broken wheel at the finish. But let's just call the gain 53s. And this was the day after the stage was neutralized by Cancellara because Andy had crashed and was a couple of minutes back. Without that time Andy wouldn't have seen the yellow jersey in this TdF. Don't be selective in your choice of when a rider should be honorable and when not.
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Old 07-21-10, 12:22 AM
  #34  
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Originally Posted by OrionKhan View Post
Exactly what Tour de France are you referring to? Your statement based upon a fantasy. Go out and actually learn about the history of the race before making that statement. The tour has always been ripe with controversy, greed, lies, and distrust. This is the case with all professional sports. The only difference is the amount of immediate worldwide media coverage. The idea that there was nothing but nobility in the past is a farce. We have much more aggressive, direct, invasive, and competitive media today. The sport is the same its the coverage that's different. Controversy sells.

If we're talking "honor", imagine if Schleck had slowed during stage 3 when the rest of the contenders were stuck behind the crash of his teammate and brother, Frank. Andy gained 53s plus another 20s because AC had a broken wheel at the finish. But let's just call the gain 53s. And this was the day after the stage was neutralized by Cancellara because Andy had crashed and was a couple of minutes back. Without that time Andy wouldn't have seen the yellow jersey in this TdF. Don't be selective in your choice of when a rider should be honorable and when not.
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Old 07-21-10, 01:11 AM
  #35  
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Originally Posted by OrionKhan View Post
Exactly what Tour de France are you referring to? Your statement based upon a fantasy. Go out and actually learn about the history of the race before making that statement. The tour has always been ripe with controversy, greed, lies, and distrust. This is the case with all professional sports. The only difference is the amount of immediate worldwide media coverage. The idea that there was nothing but nobility in the past is a farce. We have much more aggressive, direct, invasive, and competitive media today. The sport is the same its the coverage that's different. Controversy sells.

If we're talking "honor", imagine if Schleck had slowed during stage 3 when the rest of the contenders were stuck behind the crash of his teammate and brother, Frank. Andy gained 53s plus another 20s because AC had a broken wheel at the finish. But let's just call the gain 53s. And this was the day after the stage was neutralized by Cancellara because Andy had crashed and was a couple of minutes back. Without that time Andy wouldn't have seen the yellow jersey in this TdF. Don't be selective in your choice of when a rider should be honorable and when not.
+5000.

Can we just make this a sticky?
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Old 07-21-10, 04:02 AM
  #36  
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Originally Posted by Howzit View Post
Of course not a single reply with any substance because there is absolutely no rebuttal to what I said.
If Schleck was on Shimano 105 from 1990 in a race in 2010 would people have said it was just poor choice in equipment or would they have said its bad luck?
Of course not, because he could have chosen to use 2010 Dura Ace. 'Nuff said.

USAZorro, I apologize for my repetetive nature on the subject, but I need to clear ingnorance, especialy when it is this thick, and as of yet, there is not one single rebuttle with substance to argue the facts.

The fatcs are that a rear sprocket slip is something that shouldn't happen on groupsets in 2010. This is an issue that MIGHT happen on the front of Shimano or Campy, but a rear slip on Shimano or Campy is extremely unlikely.
Not onlt that, there have been complaints on Srams rear cassette, so why the thick resistance on admitting the equipment didnt work as it should????
How do you know he was riding a SRAM rear casette? I ride Rival on one bike and Red on another and don't use their rear casette, preferring the adjustability of a 7800 Dura Ace casette. FWIW, I periodically work with two bike teams, both very good, who use SRAM without a problem. I can only assume you must be an employee (I hope not though) of a competitor.

Don't assume you know what's going on.

This whole forum in hilarious, but it's not a lot different than the fan forum for any NFL team. I know a couple guys that play for my local NFL team, and they peruse fan forums from time to time and get a lot of laughs out of them.

It is nice to see interest in the sport, even if it's only one month a year.

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Old 07-21-10, 07:19 AM
  #37  
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Which race were you watching ?

If the problem was a rear sprocket slip, why did Schleck spend so much time trying to get the chain back on the front ring ?

The choice of componentry had little, if anything, to do with the problem of the rider's poorly timed and clumsy attempt to change gears while under very heavy effort.
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Old 07-21-10, 12:48 PM
  #38  
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Originally Posted by ursus australis View Post
Which race were you watching ?

If the problem was a rear sprocket slip, why did Schleck spend so much time trying to get the chain back on the front ring ?

The choice of componentry had little, if anything, to do with the problem of the rider's poorly timed and clumsy attempt to change gears while under very heavy effort.
That too. I figured just humor him.
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Old 07-21-10, 01:26 PM
  #39  
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Originally Posted by ursus australis View Post
Which race were you watching ?

If the problem was a rear sprocket slip, why did Schleck spend so much time trying to get the chain back on the front ring ?

The choice of componentry had little, if anything, to do with the problem of the rider's poorly timed and clumsy attempt to change gears while under very heavy effort.
Schleck denies that he was shifting at the time... says it's just a "scheisse happens" kind of thing.

De todos modos, el luxemburgués ha descartado que la salida de cadena fuese motivada por un error suyo en el cambio sino que se debió "a la mala suerte". "He visto las imágenes varias veces, no hice nada y no volverá a pasar. El problema está solucionado", ha recalcado.
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Old 07-23-10, 03:29 PM
  #40  
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its bad luck
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Old 07-23-10, 04:18 PM
  #41  
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it's called chainring flex...it happens....is this Howzit guy serious?

Inferior huh?..hasn't sram won all but like 3 of the grand tours since it was introduced in 2007? inferior..right
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Old 07-24-10, 02:07 PM
  #42  
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Originally Posted by Crash716 View Post
it's called chainring flex...it happens....is this Howzit guy serious?
Chainring flex..... are you serious?
You honestly believe what you just wrote?
You have seen Petacci and Cavendish sprint? And you talk of chainflex being caused by Scleck? Seriously? You are really going to write that on a public forum? Have you even seen a Sram chainring? Its so tall and beefed up not even Mario Chipo could felx it. Go to bed, sleep.

Anyway, back to reality.
Let me get this strieght... you all hear the words "mechanical failure" or "mechanical incidence," and you dont think mechanical equipment? Instead what pops into your head is icecream? Perhaps Hawaii? Or Schleck? Because nothing says Schleck more than the phrase "mechanical incidence." Nothing reminds you more of ice-cream than the phrase "mechanical failure."

Mechanical incidence, or mechanical failure, if I may explain -may it please the court, since nobody seems to have a clue, is when a group of parts that are designed to work together as a mechanical unit have one or more of these individual or collective set parts misfunction, causing a breakdown in the overall desired result of the componentry. This is what happened, in case you didnt know, to Schleck on the climb. He said he wasnt even shifting, which makes it worse, and from the lack of undertsnading being displayed in this thread, Im not even going to bother going into that.
You are the strangest tribe I have ever come across in my life. The last thing you think of when you hear the words "machanical incidence," the LAST thing you think of are the parts within the mechanism that failed. You will think of gummy bear jelly beans before you dare think of the parts. WOW.
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Old 07-24-10, 02:25 PM
  #43  
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If the Schleck's start their own team next year, I suspect SRAM won't be on their bikes.
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Old 07-24-10, 02:35 PM
  #44  
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His gears had a bit of a "best in the world" functional hiccup again today...... tut-tut.
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Old 07-25-10, 09:38 PM
  #45  
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Originally Posted by Howzit View Post
.... Have you even seen a Sram chainring? Its so tall and beefed up not even Mario Chipo could felx it. ....
you're a genius aren't you?

If you are so smart and know what's going on with every piece of gear used you would know that the Specialized bikes are running their own cranksets and chainrings...not the red chainrings.

the Specialized rings are notorious for their flex.
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Old 07-25-10, 10:17 PM
  #46  
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Phil Liggett said today during the race that Schleck upshifted while on the inner chainring, and that is what caused the chaindrop. He attributed that information to the Saxo Bank team.
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Old 07-25-10, 11:07 PM
  #47  
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Originally Posted by lansingmike View Post
Phil Liggett said today during the race that Schleck upshifted while on the inner chainring, and that is what caused the chaindrop. He attributed that information to the Saxo Bank team.
So in essence, rider error.
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Old 07-26-10, 08:16 AM
  #48  
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Originally Posted by Howzit View Post
So after reading some of the insanely mis guided comments, I went and watched the video over a few times to ascertain the truth if I could.

One thing has to be cleared up right here and now. You CANNOT pass off POOR and INFERIOR equipment, a bad mechanic, or improperly tuned components as "misfortune" or "bad luck"
These teams have a choice in equipment. If they chose to use inferior or mis-adjusted components that slip or miss gears, then you cannot chalk it off to bad luck. Getting knocked over by a fan is bad luck, a dog running into your wheels is bad luck, several flats within a few miles is bad luck, being hit by a team car or press motorcycle is bad luck, but not poor choice in equipment. Further more, these guys have a choice in machanics. If a team chose to use Shimano 105 from 10 years ago, then a chain dropped or gears slipped, would anyone say thats bad luck or simply poor choice in equipment? I hope this illustrates the ridiculousness of calling inferior components bad luck.

I hope he lost 3 minutes to teach them a lesson on choosing unproven components. What day and age is this exactly, to get a rear cassette slip? Or for those who think it was a front chainring slip, how does this happen when you are not changing the front ring? There wasnt even a massive pothole to cause the chain to jump off. Plain mis calibrated or inferior equipment.

Had they no choice in choosing components, had they no choice in mechanics, then possibly we could begin to talk of misfortune. His equipment was NOT faulty, it just doesnt work as good as it should, or the mechanic didnt adjust it to work properly.

You cant even blame cross chaining for dropping the chain really because the chain would have been crossed towards the bottom cogs on the back. For those who think Im just hating on SRAM, I hope this makes sense to you. What would happen in this case is simply poor dérailleur design, so that small chainring up front coupled with small cog on the back caused either too much slack on the chain, or the under pulley grinded up on itself with the second pulley, causing the jump.

I hope people stop assuming Schleck had any sort of "misfortune," because then you completely have no right to blame Contador for anything. Again, mis calibrated or inferior components when you have a choice in both components and mechanics cannot be chalked off for bad luck.

Howzit

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Old 07-26-10, 08:18 AM
  #49  
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Contador wins by 39 seconds.......O' the irony.
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Old 07-26-10, 11:17 AM
  #50  
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Originally Posted by TrainerMicDude View Post
I think Contador did the right thing and he's probably going to win the tour and gues what....nobody is going to care!

However imagine if he had stopped, waited for AS, then finished with him. It would have been legendary, by the far the highlight of the tour, Contador would have been hailed as a hero even if he lost the tour. Cycling has become a dark and tainted sport full of greed, lies, and distruct. Contador had a golden opportunity to restore some desperately needed honor and dignity to the sport of cycling and he blew it. Honestly I feel sad for him and for the sport.
ha ha that would have been legendary i agree and remembered for all time but unfortunately i think there is too much pressure on these lads and they will do anything to win so it seems. he put alot of pressure on hmself by doing what he did. he really had to win but i'd say he would have won it anyway and made a few friends in the process
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