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This Has To Be Cleared, Contador's Attack, Schlecks "Bad Luck"

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This Has To Be Cleared, Contador's Attack, Schlecks "Bad Luck"

Old 07-20-10, 01:24 AM
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This Has To Be Cleared, Contador's Attack, Schlecks "Bad Luck"

So after reading some of the insanely mis guided comments, I went and watched the video over a few times to ascertain the truth if I could.

One thing has to be cleared up right here and now. You CANNOT pass off POOR and INFERIOR equipment, a bad mechanic, or improperly tuned components as "misfortune" or "bad luck"
These teams have a choice in equipment. If they chose to use inferior or mis-adjusted components that slip or miss gears, then you cannot chalk it off to bad luck. Getting knocked over by a fan is bad luck, a dog running into your wheels is bad luck, several flats within a few miles is bad luck, being hit by a team car or press motorcycle is bad luck, but not poor choice in equipment. Further more, these guys have a choice in machanics. If a team chose to use Shimano 105 from 10 years ago, then a chain dropped or gears slipped, would anyone say thats bad luck or simply poor choice in equipment? I hope this illustrates the ridiculousness of calling inferior components bad luck.

I hope he lost 3 minutes to teach them a lesson on choosing unproven components. What day and age is this exactly, to get a rear cassette slip? Or for those who think it was a front chainring slip, how does this happen when you are not changing the front ring? There wasnt even a massive pothole to cause the chain to jump off. Plain mis calibrated or inferior equipment.

Had they no choice in choosing components, had they no choice in mechanics, then possibly we could begin to talk of misfortune. His equipment was NOT faulty, it just doesnt work as good as it should, or the mechanic didnt adjust it to work properly.

You cant even blame cross chaining for dropping the chain really because the chain would have been crossed towards the bottom cogs on the back. For those who think Im just hating on SRAM, I hope this makes sense to you. What would happen in this case is simply poor dérailleur design, so that small chainring up front coupled with small cog on the back caused either too much slack on the chain, or the under pulley grinded up on itself with the second pulley, causing the jump.

I hope people stop assuming Schleck had any sort of "misfortune," because then you completely have no right to blame Contador for anything. Again, mis calibrated or inferior components when you have a choice in both components and mechanics cannot be chalked off for bad luck.

Howzit

Last edited by Howzit; 07-20-10 at 01:33 AM.
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Old 07-20-10, 03:32 AM
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1. Thank you for defining for the world what constitutes bad luck. I am certain that the guys in the peloton will be contacting you for future consultation during stages.

2. SRAM Red is not unproven equipment.

After that, everything else is foolish commentary. Or since is was 3ish in the am when you wrote this, you had just come home from an evening out? And were still feeling it?
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Old 07-20-10, 06:23 AM
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lol
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Old 07-20-10, 06:36 AM
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Give this a rest Howzit. This is what, the eighth post parroting the same thing, and now are opening a new thread to bash on a component maker? I think just about everyone who hasn't put you on ignore has seen this. We know your opinion now, and unless you have some statistics to share with us, you're not adding anything new on the topic.
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Old 07-20-10, 06:54 AM
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for REAL people! it's not bad luck! Saxo Bank is completely responsible for choosing to run SRAM Red, which is CLEARLY an inferior product compared to Astana's choice, SRAM Red! it was BOUND to happen!
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Old 07-20-10, 07:24 AM
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Eggzacchary!

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Old 07-20-10, 07:28 AM
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I'd have to agree with Phil Liggett - it is a race after all, and a good example would be a marathon - if the two top runners are side by side, and one has a shoe lace that comes untied, does the other runner stop and wait or continue on? Ironically, I'm one in our local club for everyone stopping when one person has a flat - or has a chain slip - but that's on a club ride, but for a professional race, I'd have to say in the case of a slipped chain, it would be up to the other person to press on, unless there's been a serious accident, and in that case I can see the other rider stopping to see if the fallen rider is all right...
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Old 07-20-10, 07:40 AM
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Does Howzit even exist outside of the TdF? Where does he go?
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Old 07-20-10, 08:15 AM
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So now the real reason Lance is so far behind comes out.
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Old 07-20-10, 08:26 AM
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Originally Posted by Howzit View Post
several flats within a few miles is bad luck,
Wouldn't that be the result of choosing tires with "inferior" puncture resistance?
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Old 07-20-10, 09:52 AM
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Originally Posted by wearyourtruth View Post
for REAL people! it's not bad luck! Saxo Bank is completely responsible for choosing to run SRAM Red, which is CLEARLY an inferior product compared to Astana's choice, SRAM Red! it was BOUND to happen!
The only real beneficiary here is Campagnolo, of course, but they should have waited with their 11 speed groupset until Shimano and SRAM could catch up.
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Old 07-20-10, 10:46 AM
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I think the race should have been neutralized until Shimano had 11 speed and Campy had 11 speed electronic shifting
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Old 07-20-10, 10:51 AM
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I personally think BBox is doing pretty well with their SunRace group.
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Old 07-20-10, 11:05 AM
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Originally Posted by Glades2 View Post
I'd have to agree with Phil Liggett - it is a race after all, and a good example would be a marathon - if the two top runners are side by side, and one has a shoe lace that comes untied, does the other runner stop and wait or continue on?
Now that's just silly. Everyone knows he either grabs his teammate and wrests the shoe off of him or waits for the mechanic to run up and tie it while everyone runs away.
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Old 07-20-10, 11:14 AM
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Seriously for a second... the comparison to a marathon is one of the worst comparisons I've ever heard. The two are vastly dissimilar.
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Old 07-20-10, 12:36 PM
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Example...

It's not so much the example but the action behind it - if two people are in competition and one has a minor problem, is the other going to stop and wait for him or is he going to continue, since to stop would defeat the point of having a race...

As said earlier at the club level I'd stop and wait (I was one of the flat-tire changers so I'd have to wait - lol), but during a race that's another issue, with the exception that if the other person fell and no one was around to offer assistance, then I'd also stop - sometimes you just have to do that...
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Old 07-20-10, 01:58 PM
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The Marathon example is a bad one because there is no good analogy for Attacking in the sense that it exists in professional cycling.

If a marathon runner's shoe comes untied and the rival keeps running at his marathon pace, that is one thing.
A cyclist redoubling his efforts in order to attack after seeing his rivals "shoe come untied" is a different situation.

Contador's unsportsmanlike behavior was in his attack, not his failure to stop.
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Old 07-20-10, 02:08 PM
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Originally Posted by lotek View Post
i think the race should have been neutralized until shimano had 11 speed and campy had 11 speed electronic shifting
lol...
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Old 07-20-10, 02:23 PM
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it doesn't matter what you call it, c'mon now
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Old 07-20-10, 03:08 PM
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Pardon me for interupting the thread, but I'm a non racer with quick question.

Is what Contador did considered that much different then when Schleck followed Cancellara's charge after Contador was delayed by Frank's crash and Armstrong got his flat? I am genuinly wondering.
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Old 07-20-10, 04:43 PM
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Originally Posted by canam73 View Post
Pardon me for interupting the thread, but I'm a non racer with quick question.

Is what Contador did considered that much different then when Schleck followed Cancellara's charge after Contador was delayed by Frank's crash and Armstrong got his flat?
No, there was no difference.
Right now there are unwritten rules of conduct, they both broke them. Personally I'd like to see the whole unwritten rules of conduct thing dropped. Its a competition, they should go for it from the point the flag is dropped till the end, enough of this "should we wait or not?"
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Old 07-20-10, 05:02 PM
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Of course not a single reply with any substance because there is absolutely no rebuttal to what I said.
If Schleck was on Shimano 105 from 1990 in a race in 2010 would people have said it was just poor choice in equipment or would they have said its bad luck?
Of course not, because he could have chosen to use 2010 Dura Ace. 'Nuff said.

USAZorro, I apologize for my repetetive nature on the subject, but I need to clear ingnorance, especialy when it is this thick, and as of yet, there is not one single rebuttle with substance to argue the facts.

The fatcs are that a rear sprocket slip is something that shouldn't happen on groupsets in 2010. This is an issue that MIGHT happen on the front of Shimano or Campy, but a rear slip on Shimano or Campy is extremely unlikely.
Not onlt that, there have been complaints on Srams rear cassette, so why the thick resistance on admitting the equipment didnt work as it should????

Lastly I think its absolutely valid that we question what even happened to his bike... Or are we on an ignorant ship that asks no questions of that nature because gawd forbid we discuss such facts.

Last edited by Howzit; 07-20-10 at 05:08 PM.
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Old 07-20-10, 05:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Howzit View Post
Of course not a single reply with any substance because there is absolutely no rebuttal to what I said.
If Schleck was on Shimano 105 from 1990 in a race in 2010 would people have said it was just poor choice in equipment or would they have said its bad luck?
Of course not, because he could have chosen to use 2010 Dura Ace. 'Nuff said.

USAZorro, I apologize for my repetetive nature on the subject, but I need to clear ingnorance, especialy when it is this thick, and as of yet, there is not one single rebuttle with substance to argue the facts.

The fatcs are that a rear sprocket slip is something that shouldn't happen on groupsets in 2010. This is an issue that MIGHT happen on the front of Shimano or Campy, but a rear slip on Shimano or Campy is extremely unlikely.
Not onlt that, there have been complaints on Srams rear cassette, so why the thick resistance on admitting the equipment didnt work as it should????

Lastly I think its absolutely valid that we question what even happened to his bike... Or are we on an ignorant ship that asks no questions of that nature because gawd forbid we discuss such facts.
facts... riiight
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Old 07-20-10, 05:29 PM
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Those unwritten rules sure made for a piece of crap non-race day today. This stage was pointless, and was made pointless by the leaders not racing.
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Old 07-20-10, 05:48 PM
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Originally Posted by lansingmike View Post
Those unwritten rules sure made for a piece of crap non-race day today. This stage was pointless, and was made pointless by the leaders not racing.
You have no idea what you are talking about. The 'unwritten rules' were not responsible for the pace of todays stage.
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