I don't understand team tactics for mountain stages very well at all.
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I don't understand team tactics for mountain stages very well at all.
Is there any thing I can read that will help explain?
#2
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On a basic level, tactics are pretty straightforward. If your team is in the lead, your main goal is to defend against attacks. You send all of your men to the front, with the designated leader in last place. Your team sets a strong, hard tempo, to discourage attacks.
When an attack does happen, one of your domestics immediately chases it down, keeping the leader safely in the peloton so he doesn't have to do any work.
If your team is not in the lead, then the leader sends out the domestics to attack. Hopefully the attacks will wear down the other team and get the other teams domestics to start dropping off the back so that the leader is left alone and then he will have to try to neutralize the attacks and in the process get worn out.
Of course it gets much more complicated than this but most of the time, this is what is going on.
When an attack does happen, one of your domestics immediately chases it down, keeping the leader safely in the peloton so he doesn't have to do any work.
If your team is not in the lead, then the leader sends out the domestics to attack. Hopefully the attacks will wear down the other team and get the other teams domestics to start dropping off the back so that the leader is left alone and then he will have to try to neutralize the attacks and in the process get worn out.
Of course it gets much more complicated than this but most of the time, this is what is going on.
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Il faut de l'audace, encore de l'audace, toujours de l'audace
1980 3Rensho-- 1975 Raleigh Sprite 3spd
1990s Raleigh M20 MTB--2007 Windsor Hour (track)
1988 Ducati 750 F1
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Thanks!
One thing I don't understand- when you chase down an attack in the mountain stages, What ca you do to "bring them back"? Do you just "sit " on that wheel? How does that slow a climber down? Or do you try to get in the way of them so they can't get into a rhythm? I understand you can disrupt a paceline when it is a flatter stage, but at the slower speeds on the mountains it is harder for me to understand.
One thing I don't understand- when you chase down an attack in the mountain stages, What ca you do to "bring them back"? Do you just "sit " on that wheel? How does that slow a climber down? Or do you try to get in the way of them so they can't get into a rhythm? I understand you can disrupt a paceline when it is a flatter stage, but at the slower speeds on the mountains it is harder for me to understand.
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It is not about slowing down riders in front. It is about going faster behind. These guys are so good that enve in the mountians drafting makes a difference. Very very smal at 10%, but many steep climbs have at least small sections that are 5 or 6% and at the level the top guys go a draft matters (with high winds a draft can matter more).
Also the guys being grought back are usually not as strong as the guys chasing, so a lot of it is just better riders deciding it is time to push harder.
A subtle part of the startegy is that if you are in a group and your team is setting the pace they are setting a pace you like and they are alert to your ability to keep it. If you start to have trouble they will back off a little, if an important competitor seems to be in trouble they will speed up a bit. (On the slowing down if they are really really good on it no one will ever notice.)
Also the guys being grought back are usually not as strong as the guys chasing, so a lot of it is just better riders deciding it is time to push harder.
A subtle part of the startegy is that if you are in a group and your team is setting the pace they are setting a pace you like and they are alert to your ability to keep it. If you start to have trouble they will back off a little, if an important competitor seems to be in trouble they will speed up a bit. (On the slowing down if they are really really good on it no one will ever notice.)
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Agree with everything said. It's also psychological. It's a lot easier to follow someone than lead unless you know you can drop them then it's fun. If you've ever been working your ass off only to find you've been dragging another rider around the whole time it can be a little deflating. You're wondering things like, "Is this person going to pull? Why can't I shake them? When's he going to attack? Why'd I get up today? Why won't my legs shutup (ref: Jens Voigt)"
#6
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One scenario:
If I break-away trying to win a stage, and one of the GC leader's teammates comes with me, he'll just be sitting on with instructions to not work/help. I don't want to do all the work, tire myself out by the finish, and have him blow past me in the last 500m winning the stage. So, if I break-away and he comes with, I sit up & stop trying so hard. I end up getting "dragged back" to the peloton.
If I break-away trying to win a stage, and one of the GC leader's teammates comes with me, he'll just be sitting on with instructions to not work/help. I don't want to do all the work, tire myself out by the finish, and have him blow past me in the last 500m winning the stage. So, if I break-away and he comes with, I sit up & stop trying so hard. I end up getting "dragged back" to the peloton.
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Thanks!
One thing I don't understand- when you chase down an attack in the mountain stages, What ca you do to "bring them back"? Do you just "sit " on that wheel? How does that slow a climber down? Or do you try to get in the way of them so they can't get into a rhythm? I understand you can disrupt a paceline when it is a flatter stage, but at the slower speeds on the mountains it is harder for me to understand.
One thing I don't understand- when you chase down an attack in the mountain stages, What ca you do to "bring them back"? Do you just "sit " on that wheel? How does that slow a climber down? Or do you try to get in the way of them so they can't get into a rhythm? I understand you can disrupt a paceline when it is a flatter stage, but at the slower speeds on the mountains it is harder for me to understand.
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Agree with everything said. It's also psychological. It's a lot easier to follow someone than lead unless you know you can drop them then it's fun. If you've ever been working your ass off only to find you've been dragging another rider around the whole time it can be a little deflating. You're wondering things like, "Is this person going to pull? Why can't I shake them? When's he going to attack? Why'd I get up today? Why won't my legs shutup (ref: Jens Voigt)"
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Agreed. He showed the world his mind was more in the game yesterday. I think he could have challenged the win but by holding 2nd, barely, he acknowledged that he was as strong a rider and he respected what Andy did/tried to do. I think that will be the "but" in the story when they mention him not winning a stage this year. That being he showed class on that stage. Unless he takes the TT which is possible but Fabian may have other plans.
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With Mig and Anquetil some of the press tried to make something out of them not winning mountian stages. Personally I don't see any real problem with AC not winning a stage. I might see it differently if he finished behind AS on every mountian stage, but that was not the case. It was just so many cases of others off the front.
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Everybody loses sight of what the true objective of a GC rider like AC is. It is not to win stages, but to be the GC champion. If you win a stage, fine, but the real deal is be the GC champ.