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How do you feel about the Alberto Contador decision?

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View Poll Results: Contador...guilty or innocent?
He's innocent
14
8.97%
He could be innocent but HE hasn't proven it
17
10.90%
He's probably guilty but WADA/UCI/whoever has't proven it
35
22.44%
He's guilty as sin
83
53.21%
Spaniards have no balls but Dubbayoo is one cool dude
7
4.49%
Voters: 156. You may not vote on this poll

How do you feel about the Alberto Contador decision?

Old 02-17-11, 09:04 AM
  #26  
jarhead#42
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Anyone who thinks the bovine industry is a family farm type operation is mislead.It is one of the most less then ethical industries out there.If it goes to the court of arbitration.My brother,a vegetarian is fully educated on the bovine issues seats as a judge in the court.I will post anything I can get out of him,if it goes that route.
.We have this very day,people dieing from eating beef.Mad cow,ofter diagnosed as some form of dementia.It sits in your body for up to 30 years without the person knowing it.My father passed away from it.He had holes in his brains.We have youth, reaching puberty at a much younger ages because of the chemicals and hormones that are put in beef.In the past the bovine industry would use downer cows for beef.Cattle that died from illness before being processed.So a huge sensitive issue.Big huge beef industry may get some bad press.One would think they would like to debunk AC.Or one would think they would like this to go away without the huge press coverage.

I think everyone should read up on the mad cow cover up.
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Old 02-17-11, 09:09 AM
  #27  
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Of course he's guilty. He became guilty the day he failed to play along with the plan to promote LA's chances of winning the 2009 TdF over his own. He has been guilty of all sorts of crimes against humanity ever since.
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Old 02-17-11, 05:14 PM
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Originally Posted by BluesDawg View Post
Of course he's guilty. He became guilty the day he failed to play along with the plan to promote LA's chances of winning the 2009 TdF over his own. He has been guilty of all sorts of crimes against humanity ever since.
I agree. He is extremely accomplished at figuratively stabbing any of his teamates, or anyone else if it suits him, in the back at any given time. Not someone to be admired for his sporting or personality traits. Now he has ruined it for those who wanted to admire his cycling prowess. Looks good on him.

I know you were being facetious but I'm not.
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Old 02-17-11, 06:44 PM
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I enjoy watching AC race......

I dare say he is as "clean" of a major champion as the sport has had (or likely will)

Last edited by Romans8:28; 02-17-11 at 06:59 PM.
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Old 02-17-11, 06:56 PM
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Personally, I believe him. I haven't followed much of it in the news at all, but I did watch an interview where he claimed innocence. He sounded sincere to me, and contaminated meat is actually very plausible for such an infinitesimal amount, so the benefit of the doubt isn't hard for me to offer. It would be nice if it were more settled (as in - tracked to a source) but for the moment I hope the season gets going without too much speculation and trouble.

Of course I'm looking forward to the Contador/Schleck rematch in the next TdF...
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Old 02-18-11, 09:11 AM
  #31  
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Originally Posted by Talldog View Post
I agree. He is extremely accomplished at figuratively stabbing any of his teamates, or anyone else if it suits him, in the back at any given time. Not someone to be admired for his sporting or personality traits. Now he has ruined it for those who wanted to admire his cycling prowess. Looks good on him.

I know you were being facetious but I'm not.
Correct. So, in fact, we don't agree.
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Old 02-18-11, 09:11 AM
  #32  
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Originally Posted by WhyFi View Post
He claims that it came from tainted meat - why was the meat tainted? Under this scenario, it would be so that the cows would be big and provide more meat, of course. Did the farmer only juice up one cow? No, that's implausible, so where are the rest of the cows? At either end of the farming spectrum, there's a trail back from the restaurant, whether the meat was sourced from an industrial farmer or from a boutique ranch. Claiming that it was the meat, while not being able to source similarly contaminated meat through the supply chain, is so unlikely that it smacks of dishonesty.
The Spanish agricultural department has a meat testing program in place for this stuff... and tested more than 15,000 samples. Not one tested hot for clenbuterol.

Contador was one of the riders initially accused of complicity in Operation Puerto in 2006... so it's not like this is the first time that the Fingerbanger has been playing with matches.
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Old 02-18-11, 10:01 AM
  #33  
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Originally Posted by Pscyclepath View Post
The Spanish agricultural department has a meat testing program in place for this stuff... and tested more than 15,000 samples. Not one tested hot for clenbuterol.

Contador was one of the riders initially accused of complicity in Operation Puerto in 2006... so it's not like this is the first time that the Fingerbanger has been playing with matches.
Add in the plasticzers, no one else on the team testing positive for Clenbuterol, (heck if they thought it was tainted meat they could have done hair samples on the other people who ate the same meat), no hair test submitted by Contador's defense, ( http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/hair...erol-abuse)the fact that the minute quantity is consistent with reinfusing blood taken from an earlier period where he was using clenbuterol, the known rampant drug use in the pro peleton, and how hard is it to believe that he purposefully ingested clebuterol?
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Old 02-18-11, 06:11 PM
  #34  
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Well,no one really knows for sure.The cattle industry in Spain or who ever tested,would not want to harm the money making beef industry in there country.But as mentioned above.All fans want to see the Shlecks and AC in the hills blowing up their hearts!I think its a great sport that usually is boosted when you have such talent.Andy,Frank,and AC all in the hills?Awesome
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Old 02-18-11, 07:58 PM
  #35  
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No, no, he didn't dope. But his is a vampire, and accidentally fed on a clenbuterol-tainted COPD patient who just had surgery. Which explains the clen and the plasticizer.

The good news is that he can ride.

The bad news is that he'll have to ride away from the angry mob carrying steaks and garlic.
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Old 02-18-11, 08:04 PM
  #36  
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Originally Posted by baribari View Post
No, no, he didn't dope. But his is a vampire, and accidentally fed on a clenbuterol-tainted COPD patient who just had surgery. Which explains the clen and the plasticizer.

The good news is that he can ride.

The bad news is that he'll have to ride away from the angry mob carrying steaks and garlic.
Until the UCI bans him for two years.

Because if they DON'T, all the drug testing is a farce.
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Old 02-18-11, 11:03 PM
  #37  
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Originally Posted by Pscyclepath View Post
The Spanish agricultural department has a meat testing program in place for this stuff... and tested more than 15,000 samples. Not one tested hot for clenbuterol.

Contador was one of the riders initially accused of complicity in Operation Puerto in 2006... so it's not like this is the first time that the Fingerbanger has been playing with matches.
Its not hard to find dissenting opinion - http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/cont...al-association - an article interviewing someone knowledgeable on the subject, who thinks it is very plausible. I would imagine the officials who made the decision looked to experts like this one, who asserts that the controls on imported meat are lax enough, and clenbutyrol use common enough in South American animals, that the whole story is very plausible.
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Old 02-18-11, 11:44 PM
  #38  
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Originally Posted by daxr View Post
Its not hard to find dissenting opinion - http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/cont...al-association - an article interviewing someone knowledgeable on the subject, who thinks it is very plausible. I would imagine the officials who made the decision looked to experts like this one, who asserts that the controls on imported meat are lax enough, and clenbutyrol use common enough in South American animals, that the whole story is very plausible.
I don't get why this is so misunderstood. It doesn't matter one wit if it is plausible or not. He has to show (ie., establish or prove) that is actually what happened if he wants to use that defence ... not just state the possibility. The onus is on him once he tests positive. It is not enough to suggest something is plausible. The UCI and WADA do not have to prove anything once he tests positive. He has to prove his defence argument with empirical evidence specific to his positive test and to the specific environment pertinent to that positive. In other words, provide direct evidence that the actual meat ingested was contaminated beyond any reasonable doubt and that such contamination was sufficient to cause a positive test result. That is the way the doping rules are written and it is the only way they can work.

Last edited by Talldog; 02-18-11 at 11:53 PM.
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Old 02-19-11, 01:13 AM
  #39  
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Well, I guess I don't get it either, as there was apparently a prosecution (or whatever that particular court calls it), and a defense, and a judge, and a consideration of all evidence. I wasn't there so I don't know a great deal about what swung the decision towards pardon, but apparently it was sufficient.

I guess it would render forums of all sorts irrelevant if we weren't able to second-guess decisions like that - whether we know any of the evidence and facts or not, how easy it still is to be certain that the people who looked at the facts and evidence are wrong.
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Old 02-20-11, 04:10 PM
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I knew he was innocent all along. Spanish riders are naturally gifted and don't need to use any PED's. I say we all take up donations to help him with his legal fees.
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Old 02-20-11, 10:57 PM
  #41  
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Go into a restaurant and order a steak. Go back a day later and ask the manager for the batch number of the steak and where it came from. This will show you how easy or hard it is to trace the meat that you eat.

Do you really think that a chef checks every box of meat he opens or ask the butcher for proof of where the meat comes from.

Choccy...
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Old 02-21-11, 06:36 AM
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Originally Posted by Choccy View Post
Go into a restaurant and order a steak. Go back a day later and ask the manager for the batch number of the steak and where it came from. This will show you how easy or hard it is to trace the meat that you eat.

Do you really think that a chef checks every box of meat he opens or ask the butcher for proof of where the meat comes from.

Choccy...
Serious question? Seriously?

Of course the chef or manager could not do so.

However, the Dept. of Agriculture or FDA sure could if there was a public health issue. Right back to the farm.

I imagine that the UK ministry of cow (or whatever the equivelant is) has the same capability.

- Z
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Old 02-21-11, 07:10 PM
  #43  
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Originally Posted by Dubbayoo View Post
There should be an answer for everyone. Is an innocent man being persecuted or is a guilty man going free?
You missed at least one option. I don't really know. That's how I vote.
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Old 02-21-11, 07:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Talldog View Post
Uhh ... the evidence would be testing positive for a zero tolerance substance. He was not able to to show it came from contaminated Spanish steak (surprise, surprise) so the escape clause cannot apply. Therefore, under current rules that apply to everyone, he is guilty.
What would you have to say if a sample of contaminated beef were actually found?

While I honestly have no idea what really happened (yeah, I could speculate too), I think the WADA standard for zero of an amount for a substance that has been linked to food contamination is absolutely asinine.
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Old 02-22-11, 01:44 PM
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Originally Posted by USAZorro View Post
You missed at least one option. I don't really know. That's how I vote.
That's what the last choice was supposed to be before I got all smart aleck-ey. I guess I thought it was irrelevant after the two previous "he could be....but" choices.
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Old 02-24-11, 09:59 PM
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Originally Posted by USAZorro View Post
What would you have to say if a sample of contaminated beef were actually found?

While I honestly have no idea what really happened (yeah, I could speculate too), I think the WADA standard for zero of an amount for a substance that has been linked to food contamination is absolutely asinine.
That's very true. Thinking of the "accuracy in measurement" concept, there is no way to absolutely determine a zero-contaminants state.
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Old 02-25-11, 03:01 PM
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Contador's lawyer reveals defence strategy. Less than one per cent of Spanish cattle are tested for Clenbuterol.

FTA:

"We showed that the testing for Clenbuterol in cattle is not infallible in Europe," Ramos continued. "There is a European Union norm – 96/23/CE, dating from 1996 – which states that only 0.25 per cent of cattle should be tested for Clenbuterol. So 99.75 per cent are not."

Ramos also revealed that Basque authorities traced the supplier of the offending piece of beef back to three possible sources. The meat in question was bought by Spanish cycling organiser, Jose Luis Lopez Cerron, a friend of the Astana team chef who had complained of poor quality meat at the hotel where the team was staying on July 20.

"Curiously enough, the owner of the [supplier] one that was most likely to be it is in partnership with [the supplier's] his brother, who was penalised a few years back for using Clenbuterol," he said.
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Old 02-25-11, 03:15 PM
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This whole thing has become such a sad situation... if he comes out of this with no suspension for testing positive, I'll just shake my head at how truly screwed up the world of pro cycling has become. Unbelieveable!
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Old 03-07-11, 06:36 AM
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Only 12 Spanish riders on Bikeforums? I'm surprised.
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Old 03-08-11, 10:48 AM
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So, any news? Is the UCI going to appeal? I believe they're coming to the end of their 30 day window soon.
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