Tyler
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Most folks think of express package delivery, generically. "Fed Ex" to express delivery is like Kleenex to tissue. Most folks don't make a lot of note whether their shipment comes Fed Ex, UPS, or USPS priority mail, or DHL, particularly 6-7 years later.
I could not tell you whether the parts I got from Excel Sports last week came by Fed Ex or UPS, but I know they came express deliverly.
I could not tell you whether the parts I got from Excel Sports last week came by Fed Ex or UPS, but I know they came express deliverly.
On the one hand, I agree, I wouldn't recall later possibly. But since he made this out to be such a huge moment and turning point in his career about being asked to "Take care of his hemotacrit levels", and that he called Lance's secret Bat Phone number he had memorized surely, you wouldn't want to write it down or store it on your secret phone would you? It makes you wonder how somebody can clearly recall all the exact details about calling Lance and asking for EPO, and it then shows up later, and not remember certain things. But maybe this is one thing he doesn't recall. Along with, "somebody told me" that he said numerous times about things he "knew" about Lance's doping. Ok..who are these "somebodies"?
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Do you think it's important for Hamilton to remember what color pants he was wearing when he made the call? How many other irrelevant details would he have to recall correctly to convince you he was truthful?
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On the one hand, I agree, I wouldn't recall later possibly. But since he made this out to be such a huge moment and turning point in his career about being asked to "Take care of his hemotacrit levels", and that he called Lance's secret Bat Phone number he had memorized surely, you wouldn't want to write it down or store it on your secret phone would you? It makes you wonder how somebody can clearly recall all the exact details about calling Lance and asking for EPO, and it then shows up later, and not remember certain things. But maybe this is one thing he doesn't recall. Along with, "somebody told me" that he said numerous times about things he "knew" about Lance's doping. Ok..who are these "somebodies"?
Do you have kids? You remember what day they were born, perhaps what hospital they were born in, right? Do you remember your wife's room number? The color and pattern of her hospital gown? The name of the doctor? The name of any attending nurses or assistants?
How about your high school or college commencement ceremonies - can you tell us the names of the people who got their diplomas directly ahead or behind you? Do I need to go on?
The point is, memory is pretty selective and the minor details you deem important enough to remember or not may or may not be the case with someone else.
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"Let us hope our weapons are never needed --but do not forget what the common people knew when they demanded the Bill of Rights: An armed citizenry is the first defense, the best defense, and the final defense against tyranny. If guns are outlawed, only the government will have guns. Only the police, the secret police, the military, the hired servants of our rulers. Only the government -- and a few outlaws. I intend to be among the outlaws" - Edward Abbey
"Let us hope our weapons are never needed --but do not forget what the common people knew when they demanded the Bill of Rights: An armed citizenry is the first defense, the best defense, and the final defense against tyranny. If guns are outlawed, only the government will have guns. Only the police, the secret police, the military, the hired servants of our rulers. Only the government -- and a few outlaws. I intend to be among the outlaws" - Edward Abbey
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Also, who is the "us" you refer to in your message? Is there a gang of cycling morons I need to look out for on the road? Are you the self appointed mouthpiece for the group or the actual leader? Either way, I'm guessing you are at the front of the pack and the idiots have chosen wisely.
I could care less what you or anyone else on this forum thinks. You don't need any evidence to make up your mind but the testimony of less than credible witnesses is gladly accepted, as long as their opinion is in line with yours. Just remember, in a criminal court of law, the standard of proof is much different than an internet forum or civil court. Lance doesn't have to prove he is innocent, they have to prove he is guilty, beyond a reasonable doubt, to a jury. The words and accounts of guys like Tyler and Floyd don't carry much weight among reasonable and intelligent people, and I don't expect them to carry much weight with a jury unless they can offer some kind of physical evidence (pictures, recordings, etc.). "Reasonable and intelligent" are probably not requirements for your little group so you don't need to worry.
Cheers,
FB
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Proving any postal service money was spent on doping is nearly impossible. Proving lance did anything is also nearly as impossible. We (the federal government) will probably spend MILLIONS making this case. MILLIONS on an issue that honestly they should just stay out of. Just like BALCO. What good actually came of BALCO and how much money did we spend on it? In a time where every dollar should count and we are bleeding money as a country, is this the BEST way to spend our $? On retired sports figures that were never caught while they competed. Each sport has it's own governing body and if they couldn't catch him or anyone else, then why is it the government's job to waste our money figuring it out?
Did Lance dope? I honeslty don't care anymore. If cycling's governing body couldn't catch him after 500 tries....just let it go.
So basically...the US Government will spend millions building a case which will be upteen times more than what was spent on any PEDs and all Lance has to do is not get caught in a lie. If Hincappie really came forward, he might be screwed but who knows. The cost still isn't worth it. This is NOT the government's fight. Neither was steroids in Baseball. The function of the government is NOT to police sports.
Yes, I know...Postal Service....all Lance's attorneys have to do is sit back and laugh as the government tries to build a case that the team used Postal Service money to buy drugs. They won't be able to do it. Lance can just keepy denying anything. It will take years. Meanwhile that money could have gone to education, homeless, roads or anything other than this waste of time.
#207
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Actually, I believe all they need to do is to prove (to the standards the jury chooses to apply when directed to do so by the judge) that he deliberately violated the terms of the contract by using, and/or conspiring with others to cause the use of, PEDs. No need to prove that USPS funds were specifically used to purchase the drugs.
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and the comment remains...doesn't the federal government have anything better to do? Spending millions to prove what? If they couldn't get Bonds, you think they will get Lance?
#209
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Actually, I believe all they need to do is to prove (to the standards the jury chooses to apply when directed to do so by the judge) that he deliberately violated the terms of the contract by using, and/or conspiring with others to cause the use of, PEDs. No need to prove that USPS funds were specifically used to purchase the drugs.
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https://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504803_1...ag=component.0
Talk about compelling... Scott feels they had to drag it all out of Tyler, and Tyler did everything he could to make it clear that it isn't a "Lance" thing, but a systemic problem with the sport. Tyler points the finger at himself more than at anyone else. He will be very credible to a jury.
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But I would guess that the consequences of these two things are different. Used PEDs when the contract said you wouldn't? Set damages, slap on the wrist (ouch). Used USPS/US Government money to purchase controlled substances? Probably a bigger deal to the sentencing judge.
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So if Bonds wasn't a federal employee, why did the FEDERAL government go after him? Why did they go after steroids in baseball? Why did they go after others? It wasn't their job.
Did USPS get the exposure they wanted? Yes. Was their team ever busted by ANY of the governing bodies in the sport? No
just let it go and move on. You are saying BALCO was worth it? Millions spent. This...more millions.
Did USPS get the exposure they wanted? Yes. Was their team ever busted by ANY of the governing bodies in the sport? No
just let it go and move on. You are saying BALCO was worth it? Millions spent. This...more millions.
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So if Bonds wasn't a federal employee, why did the FEDERAL government go after him? Why did they go after steroids in baseball? Why did they go after others? It wasn't their job.
Did USPS get the exposure they wanted? Yes. Was their team ever busted by ANY of the governing bodies in the sport? No
just let it go and move on. You are saying BALCO was worth it? Millions spent. This...more millions.
Did USPS get the exposure they wanted? Yes. Was their team ever busted by ANY of the governing bodies in the sport? No
just let it go and move on. You are saying BALCO was worth it? Millions spent. This...more millions.
Quick search pulled this from ruaneattorneys.com. This appears to apply specifically to Connecticut, but let's see where it goes in general:
Prescription drugs are controlled substances. Possession or use of a prescription drug is illegal unless it is done with a legitimate prescription from a medical practitioner. Likewise, it is illegal to sell or possess with the intent to sell a prescription drug without being a medical practitioner who is authorized to do so.
It is illegal to possess a prescription drug without a legitimate prescription from a medical practitioner. ... Additionally, it is a crime to sell or possess with the intent to sell a prescription drug without the proper authority to do so. ...
"Sale" is any form of delivery, which includes barter, exchange or gift, or offer therefor, and each such transaction made by any person whether as principal, proprietor, agent, servant or employee.
Connecting the dots is simple."Sale" is any form of delivery, which includes barter, exchange or gift, or offer therefor, and each such transaction made by any person whether as principal, proprietor, agent, servant or employee.
If your argument is that the law ought to be changed, then make that argument. If your argument is that the laws currently on the books should not be enforced (and this is what it appears your post intends), I'm interested to know which laws should not be enforced, or if wealth and fame ought to give a person special treatment.
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https://www.denverpost.com/outdoors/ci_17102119
#216
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You're kidding, right?
Quick search pulled this from ruaneattorneys.com. This appears to apply specifically to Connecticut, but let's see where it goes in general:
If your argument is that the law ought to be changed, then make that argument. If your argument is that the laws currently on the books should not be enforced (and this is what it appears your post intends), I'm interested to know which laws should not be enforced, or if wealth and fame ought to give a person special treatment.
Quick search pulled this from ruaneattorneys.com. This appears to apply specifically to Connecticut, but let's see where it goes in general:
Prescription drugs are controlled substances. Possession or use of a prescription drug is illegal unless it is done with a legitimate prescription from a medical practitioner. Likewise, it is illegal to sell or possess with the intent to sell a prescription drug without being a medical practitioner who is authorized to do so.
It is illegal to possess a prescription drug without a legitimate prescription from a medical practitioner. ... Additionally, it is a crime to sell or possess with the intent to sell a prescription drug without the proper authority to do so. ...
"Sale" is any form of delivery, which includes barter, exchange or gift, or offer therefor, and each such transaction made by any person whether as principal, proprietor, agent, servant or employee.
Connecting the dots is simple."Sale" is any form of delivery, which includes barter, exchange or gift, or offer therefor, and each such transaction made by any person whether as principal, proprietor, agent, servant or employee.
If your argument is that the law ought to be changed, then make that argument. If your argument is that the laws currently on the books should not be enforced (and this is what it appears your post intends), I'm interested to know which laws should not be enforced, or if wealth and fame ought to give a person special treatment.
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BF, in a nutshell
BF, in a nutshell
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I'm saying if the governing body of the sport never caught them...what job should the federal government have in policing a sport. Just like what job does the federal government have in education, what speed the states set speed limits or anything else.
You are citing connecticut law for federal proceeding?
One more time....the real crime they are trying to prove as I understand it is whether or not Lance used postal money to buy PEDs....Federal racketeering and conspiracy.
It's not some possession charge or selling.
Maybe you need to read up on what really is going on before you cite connecticut law.
I'm saying this once again....I will say right now that they will spend millions on the case and never get him on any big charge.
You are citing connecticut law for federal proceeding?
One more time....the real crime they are trying to prove as I understand it is whether or not Lance used postal money to buy PEDs....Federal racketeering and conspiracy.
It's not some possession charge or selling.
Maybe you need to read up on what really is going on before you cite connecticut law.
I'm saying this once again....I will say right now that they will spend millions on the case and never get him on any big charge.
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I don't think the feds care about policing the sport. But if taking, selling, and/or distributing prescription drugs is illegal, then maybe they ought to care about the people doing that. Seems reasonable to me - why a guy would get a pass because he's famous or a pro athlete never did make any sense.
#219
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Actually, all you guys arguing that this is not a good use of Federal funds: this applies to the entire War of Drugs. There are plenty of studies showing that legalizing drugs and spending a fraction of that money on education and treatment would be better all around.
So, who's ready to sign a Legalize Drugs petition?
And prosecutors often go out of their way to make an example of celebrities. You see professional athletes getting busted all the time for minor stuff that would be ignored with most regular Joes. It aint new.
So, who's ready to sign a Legalize Drugs petition?
I don't think the feds care about policing the sport. But if taking, selling, and/or distributing prescription drugs is illegal, then maybe they ought to care about the people doing that. Seems reasonable to me - why a guy would get a pass because he's famous or a pro athlete never did make any sense.
#221
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i think the facts4lance twitter account and the actual site was a crazy floyd landis job, is this right? facts4lance is private now, has this been posted?
https://goo.gl/kC3vJ
"GreyManrod @cycletard We are celebrating the arrival of full ****** @joelfelicio tempered by the disappearance of Facts4Lance.com"
greymanrod is floyd:
https://neilbrowne.com/2011/05/is-the...tes-interview/
https://goo.gl/kC3vJ
"GreyManrod @cycletard We are celebrating the arrival of full ****** @joelfelicio tempered by the disappearance of Facts4Lance.com"
greymanrod is floyd:
https://neilbrowne.com/2011/05/is-the...tes-interview/
#224
Senior Member
You couldn't be more wrong.
Inspiration means a lot even if you die from cancer. Big difference in quality of life between the inspired and the uninspired. It also gives you the strength to keep battling. You may not beat a metastasizing cancer, but you can just lay down and die from something less potent too. Happens all the time.
Have you been there? Please tell us how you know this to be true that inspiration has little impact on cancer patients and their families.
J.
Inspiration means a lot even if you die from cancer. Big difference in quality of life between the inspired and the uninspired. It also gives you the strength to keep battling. You may not beat a metastasizing cancer, but you can just lay down and die from something less potent too. Happens all the time.
Have you been there? Please tell us how you know this to be true that inspiration has little impact on cancer patients and their families.
J.