Chris Horner is going to win the TdF
07-08-11, 10:52 PM
#101
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I know this isn't going to sound popular, but before everyone starts accusing coaches and doctors of having no perspective, does everyone realize ALL of these riders will be doing something WAY more dangerous on their bikes than riding with a concussion - 50 mph downhill on tight switchbacks on the side of big mountains?
I think it's a calculated risk for a dangerous sport. Concussions might increase the chance of long-term health issues, but flipping a guardrail in the Alps can cause very immediate health issues. If you guys truly wanted all these riders to be safe, you'd insist they go AROUND the mountains or else refuse to watch the TdF. And before you talk about likelihood of concussion induced coma versus mountain crash fatality, Google "Wouter Weylandt giro 2011."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of..._during_a_race This does list at least one that I saw guy that had headaches due to head trauma (1904.)
I'm not saying throw safety out the window, but I AM saying don't be such a hypocrite that you watch a sport probably BECAUSE of the crazy shuff that they do down mountains - and with injuries - and after doping - and beyond human conditioning, yet you'd throw Johan Bruneel under the bus.
I think it's a calculated risk for a dangerous sport. Concussions might increase the chance of long-term health issues, but flipping a guardrail in the Alps can cause very immediate health issues. If you guys truly wanted all these riders to be safe, you'd insist they go AROUND the mountains or else refuse to watch the TdF. And before you talk about likelihood of concussion induced coma versus mountain crash fatality, Google "Wouter Weylandt giro 2011."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of..._during_a_race This does list at least one that I saw guy that had headaches due to head trauma (1904.)
I'm not saying throw safety out the window, but I AM saying don't be such a hypocrite that you watch a sport probably BECAUSE of the crazy shuff that they do down mountains - and with injuries - and after doping - and beyond human conditioning, yet you'd throw Johan Bruneel under the bus.
07-08-11, 10:52 PM
#102
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They're both qualified to evaluate the safety of going down a mountain at 50mph. It's really, really dangerous. It's part of the job description of a coach - to approve dangerous things that most sane people wouldn't do.
It's not a red herring. I addressed the issue. The issue is the relative safety of riding with a concussion. It's relatively dangerous, until you compare it to the other things these coaches and doctors have to allow riders to do. Then you can see why a coach's mindset might be willing to approve it, especially if he thinks Horner is an excellent enough helper to affect the race's outcome.
In short, I'm calibrating the term "dangerous" within the context of the situation.
It's not a red herring. I addressed the issue. The issue is the relative safety of riding with a concussion. It's relatively dangerous, until you compare it to the other things these coaches and doctors have to allow riders to do. Then you can see why a coach's mindset might be willing to approve it, especially if he thinks Horner is an excellent enough helper to affect the race's outcome.
In short, I'm calibrating the term "dangerous" within the context of the situation.
Last edited by InReverse; 07-08-11 at 10:56 PM.
07-08-11, 11:02 PM
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For me the issue is, if Horner has a bad concussion. They (doctor or director) should stop him for his safety and everyone else. He's out of contention. What is the point of continuing? As we have seen, a rider can get hurt really badly on bike racing. One needs to be at full mental capacity to perform well. A raging headache, blurred vision, dizziness, nausea, balance problems, are not the types of things I would consider full mental capacity.
07-08-11, 11:09 PM
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Chris Horner crossed the finish line. Wouter Weylandt and Fabio Casartelli didn't. Debate which is more dangerous (and whether a coach has to learn to allow dangerous things.) If Johan Bruyneel did show poor judgment, I don't think it was by as much as people are saying, considering what his job entails daily.
07-08-11, 11:10 PM
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Its the doctor's/coach's job to protect him from himself, especially when he is clearly in no position to make any decision, let alone one that could seriously effect his long term health. The man rode 35 km and didn't remember any of it, was apparently unaware of crashing. Who ever put him back on the bike and gave him a push should seriously reconsider their priorities.
07-08-11, 11:56 PM
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07-09-11, 01:51 AM
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This is why forum members are upset. Rightfully so IMO.
Quick google search brought this up. Football players have died. If Horner had rung his bell again it could have been lights out.
Second Impact Syndrome. The two cases described above involved repeated head trauma with probable concussions that separately might be considered mild but in additive effect were fatal. The risk for catastrophic effects from successive seemingly mild concussions sustained within a short period is not yet widely recognized. Second Impact Syndrome results from acute, usually fatal, brain swelling that occurs when a second concussion is sustained before complete recovery from a previous concussion that causes vascular congestion and increased intracranial pressure, which may be difficult or impossible to control.
Quick google search brought this up. Football players have died. If Horner had rung his bell again it could have been lights out.
Second Impact Syndrome. The two cases described above involved repeated head trauma with probable concussions that separately might be considered mild but in additive effect were fatal. The risk for catastrophic effects from successive seemingly mild concussions sustained within a short period is not yet widely recognized. Second Impact Syndrome results from acute, usually fatal, brain swelling that occurs when a second concussion is sustained before complete recovery from a previous concussion that causes vascular congestion and increased intracranial pressure, which may be difficult or impossible to control.
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07-09-11, 02:11 AM
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I saw Chris climbing the Norwegian Grade on the last stage of the ToC. I cheered him on.
Many years ago, he used to ride/train with the Simi Valley riders, near where I live.
I like him and as the Tour's senior citizen, I am cheering him on!
Go Chris and do the right thing!
07-09-11, 03:56 AM
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Chris Horner is Out of This Years TdF
It's official. Horner will spend the weekend in hospital so he joins Wiggins as a stage 7 casualty.
https://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/090720...de-france.html
https://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/090720...de-france.html
07-09-11, 05:05 AM
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Disregarding the concussion for the moment, has anyone here tried riding with a swelled-up, broken nose? Last time I broke my nose, I wasn't riding, but I distinctly remember how difficult it was to breathe through my nose for several days. We all do a lot of mouth-breathing (and knuckle-dragging 
) on the bike, but to be strictly restricted to mouth-breathing for a competitive 7 or 8 hour ride sounds awful.
Here's hoping Horner recovers quickly, and gets into great form for the Vuelta. If he was in it, I would actually watch.
) on the bike, but to be strictly restricted to mouth-breathing for a competitive 7 or 8 hour ride sounds awful.Here's hoping Horner recovers quickly, and gets into great form for the Vuelta. If he was in it, I would actually watch.
07-09-11, 05:12 AM
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The issue with horner is that he told them to put him in the bike, then when he arrived they noticed he was in lala land. He knew he was racing and that he needed to get into his bike.
Well, next year i guess... btw the topic should change to "...was going to win the tour"
Well, next year i guess... btw the topic should change to "...was going to win the tour"
07-09-11, 06:29 AM
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Horner had a second scan this morning and allegedly everything is fine with his brain. FWIW, perhaps nothing, Bruyneel just said in a pre race interview that the big hematoma on Horner's right leg, which is making it so Horner "can barely walk", is the main factor in Horner not continuing in the race. I am sorry to see Horner go.
On another note, I would like to see Klodi do well. I always root for the old guys. LOL.
On another note, I would like to see Klodi do well. I always root for the old guys. LOL.
07-09-11, 06:31 AM
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The issue with horner is that he told them to put him in the bike, then when he arrived they noticed he was in lala land. He knew he was racing and that he needed to get into his bike.
Well, next year i guess... btw the topic should change to "...was going to win the tour"
Well, next year i guess... btw the topic should change to "...was going to win the tour"
07-09-11, 12:24 PM
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THIS!!!! Educate yourselves please!!! I confess I am a physician myself, bur not a neurologist. I have been out of residency since '93. I had to go back and retool last college football season. There is SO MUCH more known about concussion and it's dangers than a few years ago and it is all scary. Please Read a little before posting. In five minutes you'll know more than JB and apparently more than these team doctors too.
This is why forum members are upset. Rightfully so IMO.
Quick google search brought this up. Football players have died. If Horner had rung his bell again it could have been lights out.
Second Impact Syndrome. The two cases described above involved repeated head trauma with probable concussions that separately might be considered mild but in additive effect were fatal. The risk for catastrophic effects from successive seemingly mild concussions sustained within a short period is not yet widely recognized. Second Impact Syndrome results from acute, usually fatal, brain swelling that occurs when a second concussion is sustained before complete recovery from a previous concussion that causes vascular congestion and increased intracranial pressure, which may be difficult or impossible to control.
Quick google search brought this up. Football players have died. If Horner had rung his bell again it could have been lights out.
Second Impact Syndrome. The two cases described above involved repeated head trauma with probable concussions that separately might be considered mild but in additive effect were fatal. The risk for catastrophic effects from successive seemingly mild concussions sustained within a short period is not yet widely recognized. Second Impact Syndrome results from acute, usually fatal, brain swelling that occurs when a second concussion is sustained before complete recovery from a previous concussion that causes vascular congestion and increased intracranial pressure, which may be difficult or impossible to control.
07-09-11, 02:06 PM
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Interestingly enough, it appears Garmin-Cervélo have a checklist on how to identify when a rider with a head injury should not continue. This article talks about it and says the team trains all support staff on running the checklist, with a copy of the checklist in every team car (see the last half of the article):
https://www.cyclingnews.com/news/pro-...-head-injuries
For those who don't like to click through, here are a couple of the operative paragraphs [NOTE: (C)cyclingnews.com]
https://www.cyclingnews.com/news/pro-...-head-injuries
For those who don't like to click through, here are a couple of the operative paragraphs [NOTE: (C)cyclingnews.com]
The team has laminated copies of the questionnaire modified by Steffen to be cycling-specific inside each team car, and all staff have been trained on using it to check a rider's well being after a crash in case the team doctors aren't on hand at the accident.
The team's policy states, "Even in the absence of obvious injury to the head or damage to the helmet, the rider will then be questioned for signs of confusion, memory loss, loss of conciousness, imbalance, or any other behaviours that indicate the rider is not at his/her normal baseline mental functioning."
The team's policy states, "Even in the absence of obvious injury to the head or damage to the helmet, the rider will then be questioned for signs of confusion, memory loss, loss of conciousness, imbalance, or any other behaviours that indicate the rider is not at his/her normal baseline mental functioning."
07-09-11, 02:26 PM
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Hey, he was wearing a helmet.
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07-09-11, 02:36 PM
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Cadel Evans is going to win the TdF
fify
fify
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07-09-11, 02:49 PM
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07-09-11, 02:59 PM
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Bookies are liking him: https://www.oddschecker.com/other-spo...-france/winner
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07-09-11, 03:24 PM
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Yeah, that's the same site I use to check, but I didn't post it in case BF didn't like gambling or something. He went from about 5:1 yesterday to about 4:1 today. But he's still a distant third in betting.
07-09-11, 06:02 PM
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Glad you're OK buddy. Take some time off and write a book or start a charity organization or something.
07-09-11, 06:06 PM
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