longbeachgary

It's sad for Alberto and sad for the sport.

grkeller

Besides the yellow jersey there is the little matter of the half million dollars that el Pistolero stole from Andy Schleck the the rest of Saxobank's riders who would have shared Andy's winnings. And the Astana riders whose pockets got stuffed with ill-gotten gains. When does that get reversed?

2ndGen

I understand that. But did anybody prove that he knowingly take peds?
He was convicted based on the urine test only, right?
They don't have to prove how it got into him?

Again, I'm not being an apologist for him, but I find it weird that a urine test alone would get someone banned.
If that's all it takes, I can't see how these guys don't live in a paranoid state. Before I went into the military,
I was told not to drink certain things (non-alcoholic) because they might show up as some type of drug use.

Well, C'est la vie. Another one bites the dust. If he needed them to win, he wasn't really a winner.
I just wish there was more than a drug test (don't they test them before and during the race?).

LazyCyclist

Can someone clarify this for me: (from the CyclingNews.com, https://www.cyclingnews.com/news/cont...o-fine-later):

To me that sounds like they are saying both are possible explanations for the possitive test, and both are "equally unlikely". However, Contador still gets a guilty verdict??? and not even a reduced ban? Simply because he could not prove how he got the positive test. The burden of evidence should NOT be on him! You should not be guilty until proven innocent!

LazyCyclist

he could also be fined 2.4 million euros...

telebianchi

Let's say I reported a diamond ring as stolen.
Police investigation found that diamond ring on your kitchen counter.
You say you have no idea how it got there, but the night before you had opened up a box of filet mingon shipped to you from Omaha Steaks.
Further investigation shows that the box of filet was sealed and locked on a UPS truck at the time you claim to have opened it in your kitchen.
So how did my ring get on your kitchen counter? Doesn't matter. You have my stolen ring and your alibi has been proven false.

Agreed that it must suck for them, but since some (a lot? most?) riders have doped then everyone has to play by these rules or find a new job.

2ndGen

Circumstantial evidence. How do you know "I" opened the box? That wouldn't fly in an American court.
I guess I'm just expecting the same level of justice that we extend to the accused here.

I think AC got hosed. But, Europe ain't America.

These are the standards I expect of any doping judgement -----> Reasonable Doubt

kleinboogie

I haven't been following all the details but why did they pay him if he was under investigation? Seems kinda dumb for them to do that. If they have a hard time getting it back, if they even try, it's their own fault.

WhyFi

He failed a test. Failed. At that point, the burden is on him to prove that he unknowingly took the banned substance. He couldn't do that.

fly:yes/land:no

you obviously have a comprehensive understanding of the us legal system.

for a cursory glance, wiki the following:

1. burden of proof
2. rebuttable presumption
3. tom zirbel

the us anti doping agency uses the exact same mechanism for determining guilt as the spanish federation - if a banned substance is detected in an athlete, then the burden shifts to the athlete to prove that it was taken through no negligence on his/her part. (that is simplified) this isn't a criminal proceeding. this isn't beyond a reasonable doubt. even if it was, many people forget about the word "reasonable". this is clear and convincing evidence standard.

fly:yes/land:no

i have been trying to respond to this for a while, but the page keeps locking up.

at first, i thought the same thing as you, but the procedural history gives a glimpse that there is something more going on and that the fault is not entirely on the spanish panel.

the spanish federation was given the wada report regarding the positive test(s) and asked to indict contador. note: it is unclear if the wada report included all of the positive clenbuterol tests (particularly the positive from july 20) at the time it was submitted. a judge was selected, and contador was given the chance to submit a defense. contador presented an apparently convincing and thorough defense that the spanish federation's judge found persuasive. the judge then requested wada, the uci, and the spanish federation for a report responding to contador's defense. the uci said it would take ~1 month to compile the report. wada decided to not file a report. the day after the uci's report was due, the uci said it was delaying the report indefinitely. only the spanish federation filed a report. upon learning that the uci was not going to respond to contador's defense, the judge offered the 1 year ban to contador.

it seems to me that uci and wada took a back seat in a case involving perhaps the most prolific stage racer of his time about a doping offense that occurred during the most prestigious event in cycling. surely, they could have done more to pursue a conviction by the spanish federation. perhaps there is more to the story, but that is all we get from the procedure section. :shrug:

kaliayev

Exactly which European courts were involved?

Tomzie

Whether AC is guilty or not, they have to fix this system. Dragging out judgement on any rider is damaging the sport. How deep will they dig with these trace elements that show up in these guys?

Set new guidelines, a dosage that is not acceptable, and judge them on that. Hey, if you're alcohol level is under .08, it's acceptable to drive right?

I do believe that some athletes can consume substances by accident, so don't penalize them unless the substance is over the accepted level.

I'm not an AC fan, but I kind of thing that he got screwed on this one because the powers that be are being too anal.

2ndGen

Yeah. I'm just a roofer.

I find that I often get a much more detailed answer to a question by
taking a shot with a statement and waiting for an expert to correct me.


"Reasonble" is relative, isn't it.

Odd...without any evidence that he took it on purpose, they can just slam him like that.
If someone spiked his drink or something at a public function, they could ruin a career.
Of course, I'm not suggesting anything like that happened here, but in that case,
the exact same thing could hypothetically happened if what you say is true.

Scary.

Agreed. Apparently, no right to a speedy trial in sports.

The ones that like The Schlecks.

WalksOn2Wheels

Regardless of the sentence or verdict itself, I'm pretty tired of American fans busting his chops so thoroughly while generally praising Lance. Ok, to be fair, I guess the cycling community in the US is about 50/50 on Lance. But generally speaking, if I meet a Lance fan, I'm also meeting a Contador hater. And they will inevitably bring up Shleck's failure to properly shift, I mean, chain drop as an example of Contador being a "cheater" and non-sportsman like. If you paid close attention to this year's Giro (which, if you're a Lance fan and a Contador hater, you're most likely a casual fan that didn't realize Italy also held a race) you would have seen Contador gifting many stage wins including one to an old teammate.

So no matter if he doped or not, I'm just sick and tired of American fans jumping on the anti-Contador bandwagon based on a so called lack of sportmanship. Just damn tired of it.

That said, as much as it sucks, he tested positive, even if it was a minuscule amount. This is the decision that the myriad of organizations has reached and this is how it is. Here's hoping for a great TdF and looking forward to Contador's return at next year's Veulta.

achoo

Except that in this case, there's a dead body with a knife stuck in it, Contador's and there a few small fresh spots of the deceased's blood on Contador's shoes.

Nachoman

And all the Lance fanboys are happy because lance is now bumped up to 2nd place.

2ndGen

So the 2010 title goes to Andy Schleck now?

WhyFi

It is not odd, you just have your Contador love goggles on. With what you envision as being fair, it would be virtually impossible to find anyone of being guilty of doping.

WhyFi

Interesting, thanks. Yeah, if they were left out to dry after specifically requesting a response to the defense, it would be tough to hold them responsible for home cookin'.

ColinL

I doubt very much that Lance gives a **** about being the 1st loser..

Kasseien

Can anyone give some clarity on the way the word 'ban' is being interpreted here. I don't know the precedent within cycling but this does not seem like a two year ban at all. August 5th 2012 is approximately two years from when the UCI would have become aware of the failed test. So far that seems reasonable, but then there was the 'time spent' when he was still yet to be cleared by the spanish federation (about 6 months right?). But wait! After the clearance he continues to ride, continues to be paid by his team, continues to be paid by his endorsements, sign autographs, fly all over the world, live the life of a professional athlete, etc. And you are telling me he was actually serving his ban during this period? Is this normal for the sport? Now that I understand the system I am not at all surprised that his legal team instigated (in some cases) and accepted (in others) more delays to the case. If they could have just delayed it 6 more months he would have had zero time off the bike (except of course the time before the clearance by the Spanish, which was largely off season). Am I the only one that sees something wrong in this 'ban'?

simp77

Lance didn't even finish in the top 10 in 2010

daxr

I had hoped that they were using the extra time to work up a new way to apply the rules, or something that took the arbitrariness out of potentially career-ending happenstance. The fact is that we are all carrying a chemical burden, a pretty arbitrary chemical burden, simply based on our life in and exposure to the human world, as it is. "Scientists estimate that everyone alive today carries within her or his body at least 700 contaminants, most of which have not been well studied" https://www.chemicalbodyburden.org/whatisbb.htm .

If you look hard enough at a blood or tissue sample you can probably find anything you want, and an "absolute" failure for an amount so minute as to have no physical effect whatsoever, and which wasn't evident at all in previous tests, shouldn't have such an associated cost. The CAS admitted that neither contaminated meat nor intentional doping fit the evidence, and why would Contador intentionally ingest a uselessly small trace amount?

They just threw up their hands, punted. The whole thing becomes a game of roulette.

fly:yes/land:no

methinks you aren't grasping some of the finer points.

1. according to the report released today, contador did in fact have clenbuterol in his system the day before he ate the contaminated beef and the three tests that followed. the amount in the first test was very, very small.

2. no one thinks that contador took a microdose of clenbuterol for its performance advantage. what most experts believe is that the clenbuterol was from autologous blood doping. this takes some explaining, so if you already know how this works, it may be redundant and boring.

autologous blood doping is the method by which athletes improve their red blood cell count. essentially, the rider will "bank" a bag of blood in the offseason and freeze it for later use when he/she has lower levels of rbc. the rider then injects the banked blood, and voila, we are back up to the maximum hematorcrit level. this is effective because, as of right now, there is no test for autologous doping. all that we can do is look at the ratio of "old" red blood cells to "young" red blood cells. if you believe landis, the riders will simply simultaneously microdose epo and autologous blood doping --> the epo generates "young" rbc and the transfusion introduces the "old" rbc so a normal ratio of old to young is maintained. clenbuterol, on the other hand, is typically used as a weight loss drug. so, the theory goes that contador starts on clenbuterol in the offseason to lose those last five pounds before the season begins. during his clenbuterol cycle, he banks a bag of blood for use in the tour. either his handlers thought that the clenbuterol had cleared his system or his docs assumed that the microdosed dirty bags wouldn't set off the clenbuterol test since it would be greatly diluted by contador's clean blood. but, it didn't work out that way.