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Big News out of Austin, TX today. Armstrong just banned from all sanctioned comp....

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Big News out of Austin, TX today. Armstrong just banned from all sanctioned comp....

Old 06-14-12, 11:47 PM
  #126  
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It should be noted that Hincapie never outright said "it is a lie that he testified before the grand jury that lance doped". He has only said that he does not know where the press got their info re his testimony from, and that he never coperated with the media.

He can come right out and tell the world what his testimony was. Methinks he's hiding behind the secrecy a grand jury testimony offers.
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Old 06-15-12, 01:25 AM
  #127  
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Originally Posted by Surfer34 View Post
Here's what I don't understand . If you were Lance Armstrong, and you knew that everyone in the international media and fans from around the world had been accusing you of doping for years and were constantly trying to find evidence of you doping, why would you not only continue to dope, but also dope IN FRONT OF a bunch of people? Then, why would you also TELL A BUNCH OF YOUR TEAMMATES about your doping habits and encourage them to dope, knowing full well that at any given time they could have a secret video or audio and once and for all blow you to hell with PROVEN evidence of your doping. It doesn't make any sense.

If its true that he tested positive in 2009 and 2010 then that was at a time every single thing about Lance Armstrong was doping related and any person could have find proof was going to be the biggest celebrity and millionare in the world and heres Armstrong supposedly sitting around with all kinds of people injecting drugs and telling everyone else how to do it and blah blah blah.

Do you guys really think Lance is that dumb/careless/bold to do something like that ?
Short answer, yes. I can't help thinking of that movie A Few Good Men. Lance basically is doing a Jack Nicholson and I for one can't wait to see him face the cameras and confirm what the whole world has known for years. Except I don't think he will. It's one thing to have a couple of titles stripped. Its another to have your whole career annulled.
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Old 06-15-12, 05:29 AM
  #128  
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Originally Posted by Surfer34 View Post
Here's what I don't understand . If you were Lance Armstrong, and you knew that everyone in the international media and fans from around the world had been accusing you of doping for years and were constantly trying to find evidence of you doping, why would you not only continue to dope, but also dope IN FRONT OF a bunch of people? Then, why would you also TELL A BUNCH OF YOUR TEAMMATES about your doping habits and encourage them to dope, knowing full well that at any given time they could have a secret video or audio and once and for all blow you to hell with PROVEN evidence of your doping. It doesn't make any sense.
You are still oblivious to the fact the doping is supported by the team management.
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Old 06-15-12, 05:31 AM
  #129  
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I wanted to think that even Lance couldnt be so stupid and arrogant for if its true that he doped in 2009/10 then he would be the Al Capone of all the dopers and deserves whatever is going to happen to him . When I first read this I couldnt believe it as I couldnt figure that he would be that stupid . Maybe he is just more arrogant than any of us ever realized , and not as smart as we thought. He was hanging with his old buddy Bruyneel , who from all accounts was his head capo with this stuff . So maybe it was back to old times. Leopards cant change their spots , why should it be thought that Lance could change his ways ?
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Old 06-15-12, 07:01 AM
  #130  
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Looks like he's going down this time. But take a look at the fallout if he is stripped of all of his victories. How do the guys that placed in 2nd and 3rd etc. get compensated fairly in all 7 of those tours? What a mess.
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Old 06-15-12, 07:13 AM
  #131  
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Originally Posted by Barese Rider View Post
I wanted to think that even Lance couldnt be so stupid and arrogant for if its true that he doped in 2009/10 then he would be the Al Capone of all the dopers and deserves whatever is going to happen to him . When I first read this I couldnt believe it as I couldnt figure that he would be that stupid . Maybe he is just more arrogant than any of us ever realized , and not as smart as we thought. He was hanging with his old buddy Bruyneel , who from all accounts was his head capo with this stuff . So maybe it was back to old times. Leopards cant change their spots , why should it be thought that Lance could change his ways ?
Intelligent, motivated and otherwise successful people can do things that stupid/arrogant while in the public eye. You don't even need to go to the movies for an example, just look at John Edwards.
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Old 06-15-12, 09:28 AM
  #132  
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Originally Posted by whitemax View Post
Looks like he's going down this time. But take a look at the fallout if he is stripped of all of his victories. How do the guys that placed in 2nd and 3rd etc. get compensated fairly in all 7 of those tours? What a mess.
Most of the 2nd and 3rd placed guys have been banned for doping. So some dude in like 12th will end up winning a Tour de France.
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Old 06-15-12, 09:54 AM
  #133  
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He won't admit anything. As for the new tests, what did they find?? another chemicals like with contador or is just a thing of blood cells count that is high?? Not defending him but after all the cancer stuff he might not be normal in many things. Well he won't admit anything, George won admit anything but he wont defend anybody and CH now says he doesnt believe anything is said is true, well if he trained appart of the team all this years big chance he never saw anything... maybe he just want to race his last TdF, who knows.

Originally Posted by seanthebear View Post
Short answer, yes. I can't help thinking of that movie A Few Good Men. Lance basically is doing a Jack Nicholson and I for one can't wait to see him face the cameras and confirm what the whole world has known for years. Except I don't think he will. It's one thing to have a couple of titles stripped. Its another to have your whole career annulled.
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Old 06-15-12, 10:03 AM
  #134  
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Originally Posted by canam73 View Post
Intelligent, motivated and otherwise successful people can do things that stupid/arrogant while in the public eye. You don't even need to go to the movies for an example, just look at John Edwards.
Edwards at least has the excuse that his little head was overruling his big head . Most of us guys can understand and can forgive that !
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Old 06-15-12, 10:14 AM
  #135  
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Originally Posted by Barese Rider View Post
Edwards at least has the excuse that his little head was overruling his big head . Most of us guys can understand and can forgive that !
I haven't seen a picture yet so I'm not sure if I can forgive him. Spitzer's girl was kinda cute if I recall correctly.
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Old 06-15-12, 10:18 AM
  #136  
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Originally Posted by Creatre View Post
Most of the 2nd and 3rd placed guys have been banned for doping. So some dude in like 12th will end up winning a Tour de France.

That would be so awesome. However, I don't think most Armstrong fans see it that way. And honestly, the US general public doesn't know who won the Tour outside of the Armstrong tour years, so they aren't going to care who gets the Tour wins.
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Old 06-15-12, 10:24 AM
  #137  
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Originally Posted by Barese Rider View Post
I wanted to think that even Lance couldnt be so stupid and arrogant for if its true that he doped in 2009/10 then he would be the Al Capone of all the dopers
Thinking about this more, I don't think the 2009-2010 thing is any more than bluster. Are you telling me that his bio. passport is off and/or he actually failed a control and WADA or the UCI kept it quiet for a year and a half? That's even less likely than Lance 3.x doing it in the first place.

Look, Lance 1.x doped in a time where it was practically ignored. Lance 2.x doped very successfully in a time where it was increasingly frowned upon. There is just no way around it. To think that he did a comeback tour just to get busted in a time where it would be professional and personal suicide is beyond belief.
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Old 06-15-12, 10:28 AM
  #138  
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Originally Posted by androidtt View Post
You know, I wouldn't be surprised if it's a friend or a family member.
Oh man, I just read the link...

This brings the total number of Tours de France That Lemond Should Have Won (TDFTLSHW) to 167. Lemond first won the tour in 1986. However, as he has explained many times over the years since, he should have won the Tour in 1985, but was lied to by Bernard Hinault and cheated out of the race victory. Lemond next should have won the Tour in 1987 and 1988, but was incapacitated by a shotgun blast from his brother-in-law. While the incident was ruled an accident by the police, Lemond believes that his brother-in-law was working with Hinault and a young Texan by the name of Lance Armstrong to remove him from the sport.

Last edited by Cat4Lifer; 06-15-12 at 10:35 AM.
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Old 06-15-12, 10:31 AM
  #139  
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Originally Posted by Cat4Lifer View Post
You know, I wouldn't be surprised if it's a friend or a family member.
I questioned him on that a while back and he denied it. If he is related to Lemond he does a great cover job over in the 41 of showing a complete ignorance of general cycling knowledge.
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Old 06-15-12, 10:33 AM
  #140  
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Originally Posted by bellweatherman View Post
That would be so awesome. However, I don't think most Armstrong fans see it that way. And honestly, the US general public doesn't know who won the Tour outside of the Armstrong tour years, so they aren't going to care who gets the Tour wins.
The US general public doesn't know crap, so what does that matter? The truth of the deal is that if you remove Armstrong from those wins, you'll likely put someone in place who also doped, but just wasn't as good of a bike racer. I bet there were some of those years where everyone in the Tour was on some sort of illegal substance at some point during the month. It's like that clip from The Onion where the non-doping winner of the Tour finishes in mid-September. I have a couple of acquaintances that were pros. Both claim to have never doped. I am skeptical of one of them and the other I just flat don't believe.

I thought it was interesting when Floyd said in an interview, "What's a shame about this whole deal is that people will lose the fact that Lance is one bad-assed bike racer." I think that the fan-club has a problem with my 'Lance doped' stance and the hate-club has a problem with the 'bad-assed bike racer' statement. It's not an either/or proposition. They can both be correct.
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Old 06-15-12, 10:37 AM
  #141  
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Originally Posted by Creatre View Post
Most of the 2nd and 3rd placed guys have been banned for doping. So some dude in like 12th will end up winning a Tour de France.

Only because that far down they weren't as thorough with the blood tests.
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Old 06-15-12, 10:44 AM
  #142  
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The USADA is funded primarily by federal grants ($10,000,000 in 2010). What a waste of taxpayer money. Whether he's guilty or not of TdF doping, more federal funds should not be spent chasing him. This is foolishly wasteful by any standard.
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Old 06-15-12, 10:50 AM
  #143  
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Originally Posted by LemondFanForeve View Post
Pretty good theory, I agree. This is textbook "we'll drop anything we have against you, if you give us the bigger fish". He must not like fish
No. He was called in front of a grand jury. As an American, you guys give up your right to refuse to implicate yourself and are required to answer all questions truthfully. If it comes out later that you lied, you can go to jail. The upside is, evidence that you give is not used to convict you.

I'm not picking on you directly, but several have made the point that, 'well, what about these other guys! They doped too! They admitted it!'. That's just how grand juries work.
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Old 06-15-12, 10:56 AM
  #144  
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Originally Posted by Surfer34 View Post
Here's what I don't understand . If you were Lance Armstrong, and you knew that everyone in the international media and fans from around the world had been accusing you of doping for years and were constantly trying to find evidence of you doping, why would you not only continue to dope, but also dope IN FRONT OF a bunch of people? Then, why would you also TELL A BUNCH OF YOUR TEAMMATES about your doping habits and encourage them to dope, knowing full well that at any given time they could have a secret video or audio and once and for all blow you to hell with PROVEN evidence of your doping. It doesn't make any sense.

If its true that he tested positive in 2009 and 2010 then that was at a time every single thing about Lance Armstrong was doping related and any person could have find proof was going to be the biggest celebrity and millionare in the world and heres Armstrong supposedly sitting around with all kinds of people injecting drugs and telling everyone else how to do it and blah blah blah.

Do you guys really think Lance is that dumb/careless/bold to do something like that ?
I think your timeline is a bit off. Most (all?) of the eyewitness testimony comes from earlier.
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Old 06-15-12, 11:00 AM
  #145  
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Originally Posted by SwampDude View Post
The USADA is funded primarily by federal grants ($10,000,000 in 2010). What a waste of taxpayer money. Whether he's guilty or not of TdF doping, more federal funds should not be spent chasing him. This is foolishly wasteful by any standard.
You're suggesting the USADA should close its doors. That would make a mockery of American sports, and every American athlete would live under a cloud of suspicion.
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Old 06-15-12, 11:58 AM
  #146  
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I am going to laugh til Christmas if they have to proclaim Jan Ullrich 5-time Tour de France champeen.
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Old 06-15-12, 12:08 PM
  #147  
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Originally Posted by SwampDude View Post
The USADA is funded primarily by federal grants ($10,000,000 in 2010). What a waste of taxpayer money. Whether he's guilty or not of TdF doping, more federal funds should not be spent chasing him. This is foolishly wasteful by any standard.


USADA was created solely for the purpose of acting on doping allegations and keeping all sports, not just cycling, fair. It would be a waste of money for them not to do anything.

Armstrong has wasted millions of taxpayer mononce cording to all the illegal drug usage, drug trafficking and coverups that USADA has outlined.
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Old 06-15-12, 12:09 PM
  #148  
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Originally Posted by Stuka View Post
Plus, if George supposedly testified to the Feds that he and Lance were passing around EPO bottles before races: 1) Why did either one never fail a test?
There's a laundry list of people who did not fail drug tests that have been proven to have doped by other evidence, for example Operation Puerto


Originally Posted by Stuka View Post
Just a surface observation, not sure if it has merit, but it seems to me that only folks who have been banned for failing tests have been raising the alarm for Lance. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.
Frankie Andreu, Betsy Andreu Emma O'Reilly, presumably Hincapie, Mike Anderson, Steve Swart, all individuals cliaming personal knowledge that Armstrong doped that aren't.
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Old 06-15-12, 12:17 PM
  #149  
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Originally Posted by DropDeadFred View Post
so where do WE as taxpayers complain about this waste of OUR money? Do we let them beat the dead horse just to keep them relevant? It's like Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton...make everything an issue so their "importance" isn't lost
This is what UASDA was chartered to do. http://www.usada.org/files/pdfs/press-kit.pdf

Presumambly, you could save $9 million from the Federal Budget if you got rid of USADA. However, then you'd not be able to send athletes to international competitions, such as the Olympics, or to participate in UCI events, because the U.S. would be out of compliance with drug testing protocols.

The argument that USADA should not spend money to do what it is chartered to do, enforce anti doping rules, because the U.S. has many other problems doesn't really make sense.

Money not spent by USADA on Armstrong, does not translate to money for starving children.

Now if USADA was not able to enforce other anti doping rules or investigate other cases, or was pleading for increased budgetary outlays, because of money spent on the Armstrong investigation, then you might have an argument.

But USADA spending money is was granted to do what it was charted to do, should not surprise anyone.
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Old 06-15-12, 12:19 PM
  #150  
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Originally Posted by Commodus View Post
I think your timeline is a bit off. Most (all?) of the eyewitness testimony comes from earlier.
I am refering specifically to the supposed failed tests from 2009 and 2010.
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