Big News out of Austin, TX today. Armstrong just banned from all sanctioned comp....
06-14-12, 11:32 AM
#76
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Didn't Hincapie testify? I don't know George, but my opinion of him is he is a pretty stand up guy. He likely told the truth to avoid perjury, and Lance is sunk.
06-14-12, 11:53 AM
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Personally, I am getting sick of all this crap. In my opinion, until any agency can bring forth a CONFIRMED BIOLOGICAL test that shows Armstrong violated the rules, they should STFU and leave him alone.
This has been going on for 13 years now and no one can produce a single failed drug test.
I dont care if Armstrong doped or not and I dont particularly like him, but anyone who is objective and believes in JUSTICE should see this man is being persecuted and prosecuted.
This has been going on for 13 years now and no one can produce a single failed drug test.
I dont care if Armstrong doped or not and I dont particularly like him, but anyone who is objective and believes in JUSTICE should see this man is being persecuted and prosecuted.
You are making way too much sense for the trolls on this site
06-14-12, 11:54 AM
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Anybody can tell me how is that the USwhatever can have so much power to ban and take his tittles off the books when is not a world institution like the UCI, and is just a national thing?? If its american hwo they can ban JB for life out of cycling?? If its american then the only tihng JB has to do is just work in europe?? what about the spaniards?? doubt the USwhatever will be able to close their clinics, or even make them talk or come to the USA, they are in spain and in spain doubt they will listen an american entity no matter what. Is like the principal of the school was able to punish a pair of kids that are in Ukrainia...
Anobody knows the answer? Just curious.
Anobody knows the answer? Just curious.
06-14-12, 11:55 AM
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Soon after, Hamilton went on "60 Minutes".
AFAIK, Hincapie never said a word about it.
06-14-12, 12:01 PM
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Anybody can tell me how is that the USwhatever can have so much power to ban and take his tittles off the books when is not a world institution like the UCI, and is just a national thing?? If its american hwo they can ban JB for life out of cycling?? If its american then the only tihng JB has to do is just work in europe?? what about the spaniards?? doubt the USwhatever will be able to close their clinics, or even make them talk or come to the USA, they are in spain and in spain doubt they will listen an american entity no matter what. Is like the principal of the school was able to punish a pair of kids that are in Ukrainia...
Anobody knows the answer? Just curious.
Anobody knows the answer? Just curious.
Thanks for asking. It is on page 3 of this thread, current position at reply #59. Check it out when you have time.
06-14-12, 12:02 PM
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That's good, because cyclists are solid role models full of credibility and virtue. Where any of the 10 named Greg or Floyd? I'm sure they offered many nuggets of truth. Good thing we trust their accounts.
06-14-12, 12:08 PM
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Armstrong probably knows who the majority of them are. We just have to be patient and, if and when, this does go to a full hearing in front of a review panel more information will come to light. Credibility is a slippery thing and Armstrong has shown to have lied in the past. An investigation which also included evidence tampering and witness manipulation from Public Strategies would be welcome too.
06-14-12, 12:48 PM
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Does anyone here truly believe that lance didn't dope?
In a world where EVERYONE doped lance was still the best of the best. I have some sympathy with this view yet if what we really want is for a future of clean cycling then what we need is truth and reconciliation. When you have a most successful athlete still saying that he did nothing wrong and that he beat all the dopers while he was clean then you fail to promote the reconciliation that you need to clean up the sport.
If he was stupid enough to be doping in 2009-2010 then he deserves what he gets.
Anthony
In a world where EVERYONE doped lance was still the best of the best. I have some sympathy with this view yet if what we really want is for a future of clean cycling then what we need is truth and reconciliation. When you have a most successful athlete still saying that he did nothing wrong and that he beat all the dopers while he was clean then you fail to promote the reconciliation that you need to clean up the sport.
If he was stupid enough to be doping in 2009-2010 then he deserves what he gets.
Anthony
Most of the 3/4 pages of posts here, people think he didn't.......
06-14-12, 12:52 PM
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So they never should have suspended Ulrich, Basso, Valverde, Botero, Sevilla, Jascke, Scarponi or any of those guys who bought doping products from Papp-smear, because they didn't test positive. Got it.
So, if I anonymously call in that your kidnapped kid is being held in a warehouse in Queens, you wouldn't pass this on to the cops. Got it.
A witch hunt is when you hunt something that's not real. So Clemens and Bonds didn't dope. Got it.
A lot of good information in this thread.
So, if I anonymously call in that your kidnapped kid is being held in a warehouse in Queens, you wouldn't pass this on to the cops. Got it.
A witch hunt is when you hunt something that's not real. So Clemens and Bonds didn't dope. Got it.
A lot of good information in this thread.
06-14-12, 12:58 PM
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I think he cheated. I also think pretty much everyone at that time was cheating. Does it make it right? Does it mean that he was better than all the other cheaters? Did he cheat better (better drugs) or was it just that he (on drugs) was better than everyone else was (on drugs)? So was the playing field level and he was still the best? Does it really matter? Hell, it was all a long time ago and it's a nice day out. Let's just all go out and ride a bike.
Last edited by LemondFanForeve; 06-14-12 at 01:07 PM.
06-14-12, 01:00 PM
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And Landis wasn't the only one. Tyler Hamilton's statements back up that of Landis. And there are up to 10, probably more, teammates who have testified with information of widespread doping on the teams headed by Bruyneel / Armstrong.
The federal investigation was stopped, but it doesn't mean that they can't start it back up (not as likely) or that federal charges won't still be made (more likely). Johan Bruyneel, more than any other including Armstrong, is in some deep deep doo doo.
The federal investigation was stopped, but it doesn't mean that they can't start it back up (not as likely) or that federal charges won't still be made (more likely). Johan Bruyneel, more than any other including Armstrong, is in some deep deep doo doo.
Last edited by LemondFanForeve; 06-14-12 at 01:09 PM.
06-14-12, 01:05 PM
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I would take the words of both Greg, Floyd, or Charles Manson as more truthful than ANYTHING uttered by someone named Lance.
06-14-12, 01:06 PM
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06-14-12, 01:23 PM
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06-14-12, 01:38 PM
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You can look at this way, however I don't think the purpose is to find the right TdF winner. Rather, it's to demonstrate that if you are cheating, it will eventually catch up with you. This is a signal to current riders as much as anything. Namely, no one is smart enough to dope on their own -- these normally fail a test. To be successful, you have to have a "team effort" with a support staff includng people like Ferrari. You might get away with it for few years, but it only takes one disgruntled player, such as Landis, with inside information, to blow down the house of cards.
06-14-12, 01:47 PM
#95
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You can look at this way, however I don't think the purpose is to find the right TdF winner. Rather, it's to demonstrate that if you are cheating, it will eventually catch up with you. This is a signal to current riders as much as anything. Namely, no one is smart enough to dope on their own -- these normally fail a test. To be successful, you have to have a "team effort" with a support staff includng people like Ferrari. You might get away with it for few years, but it only takes one disgruntled player, such as Landis, with inside information, to blow down the house of cards.
06-14-12, 02:05 PM
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https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-13481408
According to this article, 60 Mins claimed George had testified against Lance to the Feds. George released a statement afterward essentially saying he doesn't know where they got their info.
I agree with reef that George seems to be a decent human. I've read some stuff on him and their is nothing ******y about him. Why he would throw Lance under the bus after all their work together is a baffling concept.
Plus, if George supposedly testified to the Feds that he and Lance were passing around EPO bottles before races: 1) Why did either one never fail a test? If someone doesn't test positive when shooting up before a race, when DO they test positive? 2) Why is George not banned?? If he swore under oath that he doped, he needs to be removed ASAP so he can't claim his record 17th Tour.
Just a surface observation, not sure if it has merit, but it seems to me that only folks who have been banned for failing tests have been raising the alarm for Lance. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.
According to this article, 60 Mins claimed George had testified against Lance to the Feds. George released a statement afterward essentially saying he doesn't know where they got their info.
I agree with reef that George seems to be a decent human. I've read some stuff on him and their is nothing ******y about him. Why he would throw Lance under the bus after all their work together is a baffling concept.
Plus, if George supposedly testified to the Feds that he and Lance were passing around EPO bottles before races: 1) Why did either one never fail a test? If someone doesn't test positive when shooting up before a race, when DO they test positive? 2) Why is George not banned?? If he swore under oath that he doped, he needs to be removed ASAP so he can't claim his record 17th Tour.
Just a surface observation, not sure if it has merit, but it seems to me that only folks who have been banned for failing tests have been raising the alarm for Lance. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.
06-14-12, 02:11 PM
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From a personal aquaintance who rode on European teams 20 years ago, I learned that the team *management* was behind the doping, and the team members were expected to cooperate. And then when a rider got busted, he got thrown under the bus with the management raising the Sgt Schultz defense: "We knew *nothing*!"
06-14-12, 02:13 PM
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so where do WE as taxpayers complain about this waste of OUR money? Do we let them beat the dead horse just to keep them relevant? It's like Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton...make everything an issue so their "importance" isn't lost
06-14-12, 02:14 PM
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https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-13481408
According to this article, 60 Mins claimed George had testified against Lance to the Feds. George released a statement afterward essentially saying he doesn't know where they got their info.
I agree with reef that George seems to be a decent human. I've read some stuff on him and their is nothing ******y about him. Why he would throw Lance under the bus after all their work together is a baffling concept.
Plus, if George supposedly testified to the Feds that he and Lance were passing around EPO bottles before races: 1) Why did either one never fail a test? If someone doesn't test positive when shooting up before a race, when DO they test positive? 2) Why is George not banned?? If he swore under oath that he doped, he needs to be removed ASAP so he can't claim his record 17th Tour.
Just a surface observation, not sure if it has merit, but it seems to me that only folks who have been banned for failing tests have been raising the alarm for Lance. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.
According to this article, 60 Mins claimed George had testified against Lance to the Feds. George released a statement afterward essentially saying he doesn't know where they got their info.
I agree with reef that George seems to be a decent human. I've read some stuff on him and their is nothing ******y about him. Why he would throw Lance under the bus after all their work together is a baffling concept.
Plus, if George supposedly testified to the Feds that he and Lance were passing around EPO bottles before races: 1) Why did either one never fail a test? If someone doesn't test positive when shooting up before a race, when DO they test positive? 2) Why is George not banned?? If he swore under oath that he doped, he needs to be removed ASAP so he can't claim his record 17th Tour.
Just a surface observation, not sure if it has merit, but it seems to me that only folks who have been banned for failing tests have been raising the alarm for Lance. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.
