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A decade of dopers.........

Old 10-18-12, 06:16 PM
  #126  
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From an article in this week's Sports Illustrated, regarding the cyclist witnesses: "After years of keeping secrets, and of what the USADA report calls significant pressure and attacks from the Armstrong camp, the truth-telling came as catharsis. According to a source familiar with the government probe, the investigators' challenge had been less to get Postal riders to talk than to get them to stop crying so they could talk."
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Old 10-18-12, 06:26 PM
  #127  
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Originally Posted by eriksbliss View Post
From an article in this week's Sports Illustrated, regarding the cyclist witnesses: "After years of keeping secrets, and of what the USADA report calls significant pressure and attacks from the Armstrong camp, the truth-telling came as catharsis. According to a source familiar with the government probe, the investigators' challenge had been less to get Postal riders to talk than to get them to stop crying so they could talk."
I'm not sure if I should stay quiet or laugh at this one.
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Old 10-19-12, 10:11 AM
  #128  
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Originally Posted by Commodus View Post
Well, the course and the condition of the course, for one. The way the race unfolded, the physiologies of the two riders, etc. Uh...I guess the answer is "all of the relevant facts".
Not referring to just one stage. And, nothing you mention indicates non-doping.
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Old 10-19-12, 10:24 AM
  #129  
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Originally Posted by mprelaw View Post
Short course, downhill with a tailwind, and using aero bars when no one else was. I think those are kind of relevant. Plus the fact that he always was a strong TT rider.

IMO the best evidence that LeMond rode clean was 1991. And how far and fast he fell once EPO took over the peloton. Early yellow jersey in 1991, and cracks like an egg in the mountains where the EPO users leave him sucking ass. Winds up 7th. And never finishes another TdF. In the space of 3 years he goes from maillot jaune to a guy who drops out 3 places from dead-assed last. Yeah, he doped. Right.
Except, that he also says he may have had mitochondrial myopathy or it was the effects of the remaining lead pellets. I don't think he was the best one within the peloton to judge performances of other at that time. Hard to judge others when you are not near your own peak.
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Old 10-19-12, 10:32 AM
  #130  
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Originally Posted by daveF View Post
Except, that he also says he may have had mitochondrial myopathy or it was the effects of the remaining lead pellets. I don't think he was the best one within the peloton to judge performances of other at that time. Hard to judge others when you are not near your own peak.
I think he was fishing for reasons why he was suddenly getting dropped by guys he was dropping the year before.
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Old 10-19-12, 11:26 AM
  #131  
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Originally Posted by mprelaw View Post
S
IMO the best evidence that LeMond rode clean was 1991.
Oh totally!
And I've always said that Hampsten was a doper. And, like the best evidence that Hampsten was dirty
was when he won on the Alpe in '92 while Lemond was languishing at the back of the pack, just barely
able to keep pace with his own domestique, Gilbert Duclos Lassalle (who clearly must have been doped
too, since he was stronger than Greg).

Last edited by Cat4Lifer; 10-19-12 at 11:35 AM.
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Old 10-19-12, 11:29 AM
  #132  
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Originally Posted by daveF View Post
Not referring to just one stage. And, nothing you mention indicates non-doping.
Oh I don't know about that.
Everyone knows one does not dope, if there's a tail-wind.
Geeze
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Old 10-19-12, 12:06 PM
  #133  
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Originally Posted by Homebrew01 View Post
I think he was fishing for reasons why he was suddenly getting dropped by guys he was dropping the year before.
But, he was talking about the effects of the remaining pellets in 2007, not 1991. And, his performance continued to drop through 1994 when he retired.
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Old 10-19-12, 08:00 PM
  #134  
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exactly, and in all professional sports where there is big money involved. What irritates me, as a US taxpayer, is that my money is being spent attacking the sport of cycling while all these other sports (Football, Basketball, Baseball, Rugby, Soccer, Hockey) and their heros are getting off relatively scot free. The USADA, founded in 2000, is designed to preserve the integrity of competition in Olympic and ParaOlympic sports. So it was created to ensure a level playing field for non-professional athletes ie Olympians. So how the heck were they able to use all my tax dollars to interfere with the UCI and PROFESSIONAL cycling? It was a witch hunt to go after LA bc he was on the US team, and now look what's happening to the sport, people stepping down all over the place. Well, after all the fall out perhaps cycling will emerge as the only CLEAN PROFESSIONAL SPORT out there. One can only hope.
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Old 10-19-12, 09:26 PM
  #135  
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Originally Posted by Cog_wild View Post
What irritates me, as a US taxpayer, is that my money is being spent attacking the sport of cycling while all these other sports (Football, Basketball, Baseball, Rugby, Soccer, Hockey)
Baseball took a hit and has cleaned up it's act a bit.
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Old 10-19-12, 09:33 PM
  #136  
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We have been saying that Lance was doping for over a decade now!

Idiots have claimed his innocence because they don't know jack about racing. Wise up kids.

Yep, he's innocent, framed by Richard Nixon! You can't change your tune now, we all have something called a "search function"............................oh no!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

This is too funny.
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Old 10-19-12, 09:58 PM
  #137  
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Originally Posted by Cat4Lifer View Post
And I've always said that Hampsten was a doper.
You never know, but there's zero rumor (within the circle of people who actually know something), innuendo, or history with Andy. That's somewhat telling. He's another guy who turned into back fodder once EPO hit. Zero results after 1994 and quit the next year.
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Old 10-20-12, 03:39 AM
  #138  
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Originally Posted by Cog_wild View Post
exactly, and in all professional sports where there is big money involved. What irritates me, as a US taxpayer, is that my money is being spent attacking the sport of cycling while all these other sports (Football, Basketball, Baseball, Rugby, Soccer, Hockey) and their heros are getting off relatively scot free. The USADA, founded in 2000, is designed to preserve the integrity of competition in Olympic and ParaOlympic sports. So it was created to ensure a level playing field for non-professional athletes ie Olympians. So how the heck were they able to use all my tax dollars to interfere with the UCI and PROFESSIONAL cycling? It was a witch hunt to go after LA bc he was on the US team, and now look what's happening to the sport, people stepping down all over the place. Well, after all the fall out perhaps cycling will emerge as the only CLEAN PROFESSIONAL SPORT out there. One can only hope.

There's more wrong than right in here.
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Old 10-20-12, 06:39 AM
  #139  
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Originally Posted by Cog_wild View Post
exactly, and in all professional sports where there is big money involved. What irritates me, as a US taxpayer, is that my money is being spent attacking the sport of cycling while all these other sports (Football, Basketball, Baseball, Rugby, Soccer, Hockey) and their heros are getting off relatively scot free. The USADA, founded in 2000, is designed to preserve the integrity of competition in Olympic and ParaOlympic sports. So it was created to ensure a level playing field for non-professional athletes ie Olympians. So how the heck were they able to use all my tax dollars to interfere with the UCI and PROFESSIONAL cycling? It was a witch hunt to go after LA bc he was on the US team, and now look what's happening to the sport, people stepping down all over the place. Well, after all the fall out perhaps cycling will emerge as the only CLEAN PROFESSIONAL SPORT out there. One can only hope.
You're accusing LA of being a witch ?
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Old 10-20-12, 08:21 AM
  #140  
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Originally Posted by Cog_wild View Post
exactly, and in all professional sports where there is big money involved. What irritates me, as a US taxpayer, is that my money is being spent attacking the sport of cycling while all these other sports (Football, Basketball, Baseball, Rugby, Soccer, Hockey) and their heros are getting off relatively scot free. The USADA, founded in 2000, is designed to preserve the integrity of competition in Olympic and ParaOlympic sports. So it was created to ensure a level playing field for non-professional athletes ie Olympians. So how the heck were they able to use all my tax dollars to interfere with the UCI and PROFESSIONAL cycling? It was a witch hunt to go after LA bc he was on the US team, and now look what's happening to the sport, people stepping down all over the place. Well, after all the fall out perhaps cycling will emerge as the only CLEAN PROFESSIONAL SPORT out there. One can only hope.
You're a little behind the times, and maybe should have spent time googling stuff instead of repeating fanboy talking points. The days of amateur Olympics died with Avery Brundage. All sports are now open to professionals.

Um, professional cycling IS an Olympic sport. Vino won the gold in the road race this year---and the last time I checked, he rode in the pro peloton for a number of years. Except, of course, for the time he was suspended. USADA can't touch him because he's Belarusssian.

How many millions did Congress spend investigating MLB? Don't you remember Rafael Palmeiro swearing before a Congressional committee that he never used PEDs and then testing positive not too much later? Wasn't Clemens charged with perjury for lying to Congress? How many millions of your taxpayer dollars were spent on his two trials? USADA doesn't supervise MLB and the NFL. Their mandate is the Olympic sports.

I'm really hoping that you're just a troll, and not nearly as uninformed as you sound.
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Old 10-20-12, 08:27 AM
  #141  
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Originally Posted by Cog_wild View Post
exactly, and in all professional sports where there is big money involved. What irritates me, as a US taxpayer, is that my money is being spent attacking the sport of cycling while all these other sports (Football, Basketball, Baseball, Rugby, Soccer, Hockey) and their heros are getting off relatively scot free. The USADA, founded in 2000, is designed to preserve the integrity of competition in Olympic and ParaOlympic sports. So it was created to ensure a level playing field for non-professional athletes ie Olympians. So how the heck were they able to use all my tax dollars to interfere with the UCI and PROFESSIONAL cycling? It was a witch hunt to go after LA bc he was on the US team, and now look what's happening to the sport, people stepping down all over the place. Well, after all the fall out perhaps cycling will emerge as the only CLEAN PROFESSIONAL SPORT out there. One can only hope.
What irritates me, as as US taxpayer, is that the US taxpayer funded his team. He then took the funds, and promptly turned them into drug money. IN my opinion as such the investigation was warranted , and he deserves whats happening to him. He had a following of Lance Lovers right up to the heads of NIke and Trek, that bought his bs , turned their heads to look the other way so all would look rosey in Lances Kingdom. He now deserves the fall .
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Old 10-20-12, 09:15 AM
  #142  
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Originally Posted by Barese Rider View Post
What irritates me, as as US taxpayer, is that the US taxpayer funded his team.
Still wrong, no matter how many times it is repeated: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Postal_Reorganization_Act
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Old 10-20-12, 11:09 AM
  #143  
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Originally Posted by Racer Ex View Post
You never know, but there's zero rumor (within the circle of people who actually know something), innuendo, or history with Andy. That's somewhat telling. He's another guy who turned into back fodder once EPO hit. Zero results after 1994 and quit the next year.
Oh I don't really believe that Hampsten doped. But if one thinks poor performance is a barometer for doping, then the '92 Tour trumps the '91 Tour for "evidence" of Lemond's non-doping. However, it is pretty simple to think poor performance is evidence--even more so to think it the best evidence--of someone not doping. Lemond's incredibly poor racing performance, near the end of his career, is as much evidence of him not doping as Hampsten's winning performance, near the end of his career, is evidence of him doping. That is to say, it isn't evidence at all.

Lemond's performance curve dropped radically more than Hampsten's, who is widely believed to be the other or second top clean "American" racer of that period. So, if one concludes that a doped-up peloton is the explanation for Lemond's lead-like drop in performance, one would have to also conclude that that Hampsten doped. Not only did Hampsten keep pace with the elite racers (something Lemond couldn't & didn't do), he also won. But that line of reasoning, to put it nicely, is incredibly implausible, and should be insulting to any knowledgeable and reasonably thinking person.
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Old 10-20-12, 11:58 AM
  #144  
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Yes, but the end of Hampsten's and Lemond's careers happened in their early 30s. That's not old. By comparison, Lance was still winning the TdF at the same age. Riders who doped are simply racing much longer, remaining competitive into their late 30s. So Hampsten still racing well at age 32 doesn't sound so suspicious to me.
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Old 10-20-12, 01:45 PM
  #145  
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Originally Posted by Campag4life View Post
In other words, the obscurity he would have endured for not cheating is still worse than the rewards of cheating.
and that's it in a nutshell. it's worth the consequences because the rewards are so great.
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Old 10-20-12, 05:04 PM
  #146  
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http://www.nbc.com/saturday-night-li...ympics/1198068

Anybody remember this SNL skit?
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Old 10-20-12, 08:55 PM
  #147  
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i dont but was funny
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Old 10-21-12, 02:48 AM
  #148  
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Originally Posted by Shimagnolo View Post
Still wrong, no matter how many times it is repeated: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Postal_Reorganization_Act
.

Read on about the US Postal service and you will find that it is an over bloated arm of the US government,set up by Congess as a result of a constitutional mandate, its recognized as having a legal monopoly over first class and standard mail , has a billion + dollar line of credit with the government,pays itself any income taxes it would otherwise owe , pays no local income nor property taxes, and the list goes on. To say that taxpayer funds didnt end up in Lances hands one way or the other, either thru loans, tax breaks , subsidies or by way of US Congress granted monopoly over first class mail is quite a stretch .
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Old 10-21-12, 10:30 AM
  #149  
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Don't forget the $96 million a year the US Government pays directly to USPS for certain services.

Now, how much was the annual contribution to the USPS Cycling Team?
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Old 10-21-12, 10:57 AM
  #150  
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Originally Posted by Barese Rider View Post
What irritates me, as as US taxpayer, is that the US taxpayer funded his team. He then took the funds, and promptly turned them into drug money. IN my opinion as such the investigation was warranted , and he deserves whats happening to him. He had a following of Lance Lovers right up to the heads of NIke and Trek, that bought his bs , turned their heads to look the other way so all would look rosey in Lances Kingdom. He now deserves the fall .
Well said. What a disgrace for all involved. Talk about turning a blind eye ....
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