Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Professional Cycling For the Fans
Reload this Page >

Is Armstrong the biggest ass in the history of Professional Cycling?

Notices
Professional Cycling For the Fans Follow the Tour de France,the Giro de Italia, the Spring Classics, or other professional cycling races? Here's your home...

Is Armstrong the biggest ass in the history of Professional Cycling?

Old 10-11-12, 02:06 PM
  #1  
merlinextraligh
pan y agua
Thread Starter
 
merlinextraligh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Jacksonville
Posts: 30,994

Bikes: Willier Zero 7; Merlin Extralight; Calfee Dragonfly tandem, Calfee Adventure tandem; Cervelo P2; Motebecane Ti Fly 29er; Motebecanne Phantom Cross; Schwinn Paramount Track bike

Mentioned: 16 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1275 Post(s)
Liked 447 Times in 238 Posts
Is Armstrong the biggest ass in the history of Professional Cycling?

I'm somewhat sympathetic to the argument that many many riders were doping in Armstrong's era, and recognize the pressure riders were under to dope to be competitive, so I'm not that outraged that Armstrong doped.

However, the way Armstrong treated people, bullying others into doping, lashing out against former teammates, intimidating witnesses, and retaliating against anyone perceived as against him is outrageous.

Given the way he treated Steffen Prentis, Emma O'Reilly, Fillipe Simeoni, Christophe Bassons, Tyler Hamilton, Floyd Landis, Frankie Andreu, Jonathon Vaughters, etc. etc. he is one vindictive prick.

I'm sure there have been other horse's asses in pro cycling, but Armstrong has to be on every short list of All time Asses.
__________________
You could fall off a cliff and die.
You could get lost and die.
You could hit a tree and die.
OR YOU COULD STAY HOME AND FALL OFF THE COUCH AND DIE.
merlinextraligh is offline  
Old 10-11-12, 02:14 PM
  #2  
EvenKeel
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: S.E. USA
Posts: 107
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Yes.
EvenKeel is offline  
Old 10-11-12, 02:15 PM
  #3  
Cat4Lifer
Velo Club La Grange
 
Cat4Lifer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: MDR, CA
Posts: 1,215
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
If what Hamilton said is true: that Armstrong snitched on Hamilton to the UCI in 2004, then Armstrong is one big B'.
Cat4Lifer is offline  
Old 10-11-12, 02:20 PM
  #4  
bike56
Senior Member
 
bike56's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: MS
Posts: 198

Bikes: Trek 1200 Felt F3

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
I use to feel that way about Lance,maybe it's the way he's being attacked,but I support him now.Anybody that has ever been around any pro sports in the last 20 years, knows that virtually all top level pro athletes in any sport,have been doping to some degree.If you don't believe that than you are being naive.To go after Lance retroactively is what gets me.It's over and done with.I hope the French tell them to go to hell
bike56 is offline  
Old 10-11-12, 02:30 PM
  #5  
colombo357
Senior Member
 
colombo357's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Murica
Posts: 2,284
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 120 Post(s)
Liked 30 Times in 12 Posts
Originally Posted by bike56 View Post
virtually all top level pro athletes in any sport,have been doping to some degree.If you don't believe that than you are being naive.To go after Lance retroactively is what gets me.It's over and done with.I hope the French tell them to go to hell
Welcome to the discussion. The fact that Lance doped hardly scratches the surface as towhy he is the biggest ass not only in cycling history, but likely the entire history of sports.

You have some serious catching up to do.

Start with Tyler's book, or the downloadable affidavits off USADA's website.
colombo357 is offline  
Old 10-11-12, 02:33 PM
  #6  
merlinextraligh
pan y agua
Thread Starter
 
merlinextraligh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Jacksonville
Posts: 30,994

Bikes: Willier Zero 7; Merlin Extralight; Calfee Dragonfly tandem, Calfee Adventure tandem; Cervelo P2; Motebecane Ti Fly 29er; Motebecanne Phantom Cross; Schwinn Paramount Track bike

Mentioned: 16 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1275 Post(s)
Liked 447 Times in 238 Posts
Originally Posted by bike56 View Post
I use to feel that way about Lance,maybe it's the way he's being attacked,but I support him now.Anybody that has ever been around any pro sports in the last 20 years, knows that virtually all top level pro athletes in any sport,have been doping to some degree.If you don't believe that than you are being naive.To go after Lance retroactively is what gets me.It's over and done with.I hope the French tell them to go to hell
I fully get that doping was rampant in this timeframe.

My point is about Armstrong's behavior toward his peers. I don't think Ullrich, Pantani, Basso, etc, etc, went around trying to destroy other people's careers to cover their own tracks.

And as to the retroactive thing, the evidence shows Armstrong was still at it in 2010, and other charged individuals are still in a position to continue the same bahavior now, i.e. Bruyneel.
__________________
You could fall off a cliff and die.
You could get lost and die.
You could hit a tree and die.
OR YOU COULD STAY HOME AND FALL OFF THE COUCH AND DIE.
merlinextraligh is offline  
Old 10-11-12, 02:37 PM
  #7  
Jed19
Senior Member
 
Jed19's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 4,224
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 5 Times in 5 Posts
Originally Posted by merlinextraligh View Post
I'm somewhat sympathetic to the argument that many many riders were doping in Armstrong's era, and recognize the pressure riders were under to dope to be competitive, so I'm not that outraged that Armstrong doped.

However, the way Armstrong treated people, bullying others into doping, lashing out against former teammates, intimidating witnesses, and retaliating against anyone perceived as against him is outrageous.

Given the way he treated Steffen Prentis, Emma O'Reilly, Fillipe Simeoni, Christophe Bassons, Tyler Hamilton, Floyd Landis, Frankie Andreu, Jonathon Vaughters, etc. etc. he is one vindictive prick.

I'm sure there have been other horse's asses in pro cycling, but Armstrong has to be on every short list of All time Asses.
I have been hearing for a long long time that LA is not a very nice human being. But then, most guys with a constitution like his are not great human beings. I think the kind of "mental fortitude/drive/sine qua non" that is embodied in people like that is also mostly responsible for the way they look at people, ie expendables to be used and discarded in pursuit of their goals.

Now, off to my other job as an amateur psychoanalyst.
Jed19 is offline  
Old 10-11-12, 02:40 PM
  #8  
bikerjp
Beer >> Sanity
 
bikerjp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Colorado
Posts: 3,449

Bikes: 2014 Evo DA2, 2010 Caad9-4, 2011 Synapse-4, 2013 CaadX-disc

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by bike56 View Post
I use to feel that way about Lance,maybe it's the way he's being attacked,but I support him now.Anybody that has ever been around any pro sports in the last 20 years, knows that virtually all top level pro athletes in any sport,have been doping to some degree.If you don't believe that than you are being naive.To go after Lance retroactively is what gets me.It's over and done with.I hope the French tell them to go to hell
Even USADA was going to forgive him to some extent if he would have just come clean and cooperated. Clearly it's not just about whether or not he doped. It's about the extent to which he impacted other riders (forced to dope to keep their job), their families (threats to Levi's wife for example), snitching on other riders for doing the same thing he was, bribes to cover his trail, and the overall impact to cycling as a whole. Yes, he is an ass and hopefully there will be some level of prosecution. Doping itself may not be illegal in the sense of actual crime, but what about coercion and threatening others.
bikerjp is offline  
Old 10-11-12, 02:57 PM
  #9  
Keith99
Senior Member
 
Keith99's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 5,866
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
Why does everything about Armstrong turn to the most?

Now I think he was a real prick. Some of what he said regarding the mussette bag incident were unbelievable.

But there is a difference between our era and the past. Now everything becomes public and add to that things that are now public and will be forgotten in 20 years are not forgotten yet.

I can think of some pretty nasty bits for Anquetil, Coppi and Hinault.

I also remember one thing Merckx said regarding the drug test that got him thrown out of the 1969 Giro. Basically it was "Why would I dope on that stage, there was nothing to gain". I believe him and if it truely was that his sample was tampered with I'd say that pretty much leaves the worst of Lance far behind.

Oh and what happened in 1904 wasn't very nice.
Keith99 is offline  
Old 10-11-12, 03:00 PM
  #10  
Jed19
Senior Member
 
Jed19's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 4,224
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 5 Times in 5 Posts
Originally Posted by Keith99 View Post
Why does everything about Armstrong turn to the most?

Now I think he was a real prick. Some of what he said regarding the mussette bag incident were unbelievable.

But there is a difference between our era and the past. Now everything becomes public and add to that things that are now public and will be forgotten in 20 years are not forgotten yet.

I can think of some pretty nasty bits for Anquetil, Coppi and Hinault.

I also remember one thing Merckx said regarding the drug test that got him thrown out of the 1969 Giro. Basically it was "Why would I dope on that stage, there was nothing to gain". I believe him and if it truely was that his sample was tampered with I'd say that pretty much leaves the worst of Lance far behind.

Oh and what happened in 1904 wasn't very nice.
The biggest difference between your examples/anecdotes and LA's is that LA was actively trying to destroy people. A whole lot of them too. That in my book, is totally in a class all by itself. And unacceptable to boot.
Jed19 is offline  
Old 10-11-12, 03:01 PM
  #11  
bike56
Senior Member
 
bike56's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: MS
Posts: 198

Bikes: Trek 1200 Felt F3

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Yes I read Tyler's book which actually lead me on a quest to find out more about Lance.I read all the books out telling Lance's side, and watched interviews and documentaries on the net.I never cared much for him in the past and had always kind of avoided his books and videos,and always felt he was doping,but the more I learned,the more I liked him.Maybe I was taken in by his story and personalty,or just feel sorry for him.Punish him yes,but to take all 7 TDF titles.I guess I feel like the sport of cycling in general is being attacked,and dam,those years of the TDF were exciting
bike56 is offline  
Old 10-11-12, 03:07 PM
  #12  
Nachoman
well hello there
 
Nachoman's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Point Loma, CA
Posts: 15,382

Bikes: Bill Holland (Road-Ti), Fuji Roubaix Pro (back-up), Bike Friday (folder), Co-Motion (tandem) & Trek 750 (hybrid)

Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 492 Post(s)
Liked 292 Times in 182 Posts
He's an ass for sure. But I see a lot of that in my profession. I'm used to it.
__________________
.
.

Two wheels good. Four wheels bad.
Nachoman is offline  
Old 10-11-12, 03:09 PM
  #13  
Cat4Lifer
Velo Club La Grange
 
Cat4Lifer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: MDR, CA
Posts: 1,215
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
i thought the tdf during the lance years (save '03) were some of the most boring races. well, along with the big mig years.
Cat4Lifer is offline  
Old 10-11-12, 03:09 PM
  #14  
bikerjp
Beer >> Sanity
 
bikerjp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Colorado
Posts: 3,449

Bikes: 2014 Evo DA2, 2010 Caad9-4, 2011 Synapse-4, 2013 CaadX-disc

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
^ Proctologist?
bikerjp is offline  
Old 10-11-12, 03:11 PM
  #15  
tagaproject6
Senior Member
 
tagaproject6's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 8,552

Bikes: Wilier Izoard XP (Record);Cinelli Xperience (Force);Specialized Allez (Rival);Bianchi Via Nirone 7 (Centaur); Colnago AC-R Disc;Colnago V1r Limited Edition;De Rosa King 3 Limited(Force 22);DeRosa Merak(Red):Pinarello Dogma 65.1 Hydro(Di2)

Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 550 Post(s)
Liked 276 Times in 144 Posts
Originally Posted by bikerjp View Post
^ Proctologist?
Donkey herder.
tagaproject6 is offline  
Old 10-11-12, 04:01 PM
  #16  
Mansram01
Senior Member
 
Mansram01's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 1,344

Bikes: '17 Trek Emonda, '16 Yeti ASR5, '14 Cdale F29 '08 Orbea Orca.

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Jed19 View Post
I have been hearing for a long long time that LA is not a very nice human being. But then, most guys with a constitution like his are not great human beings. I think the kind of "mental fortitude/drive/sine qua non" that is embodied in people like that is also mostly responsible for the way they look at people, ie expendables to be used and discarded in pursuit of their goals.
+1 Most leaders don't represent the greatest of humanity. They achieve a lot but walk over others. Few names come to mind, Steve Jobs, Bill Gates, etc...
Mansram01 is offline  
Old 10-11-12, 05:51 PM
  #17  
eja_ bottecchia
Senior Member
 
eja_ bottecchia's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 5,760
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1001 Post(s)
Liked 442 Times in 283 Posts
Originally Posted by Nachoman View Post
He's an ass for sure. But I see a lot of that in my profession. I'm used to it.
Lawyer?
eja_ bottecchia is offline  
Old 10-11-12, 07:17 PM
  #18  
mprelaw
Senior Member
 
mprelaw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Cape Cod, Massachusetts
Posts: 2,318
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
Originally Posted by bike56 View Post
Yes I read Tyler's book which actually lead me on a quest to find out more about Lance.I read all the books out telling Lance's side, and watched interviews and documentaries on the net.I never cared much for him in the past and had always kind of avoided his books and videos,and always felt he was doping,but the more I learned,the more I liked him.Maybe I was taken in by his story and personalty,or just feel sorry for him.Punish him yes,but to take all 7 TDF titles.I guess I feel like the sport of cycling in general is being attacked,and dam,those years of the TDF were exciting
Watching McGwire and Sosa chase Maris' home run record was exciting, too. And about as legit as those 7 TdFs. Didn't you just get a kick out of Bonds parking all of those baseballs into McCovey Cove?

You're probably too young to remember Ben Johnson demolishing the record in the 100 meters, but man, that was a real kick in the ass.
mprelaw is offline  
Old 10-12-12, 12:41 AM
  #19  
bikepro
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Allen, TX
Posts: 1,916

Bikes: Look 585

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 25 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Absolutely, positively yes! I'm just waiting for Trek and Nike to wakeup and stop supporting/enabling him.
bikepro is offline  
Old 10-12-12, 02:46 AM
  #20  
dahoss2002
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Bossier City, La
Posts: 628

Bikes: 70's Motobecane, 89 Centurion Ironman

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
I never thought he was an ass until his comeback in 09 TDF. Everyday at the press conference rolling his eyes and giving that,"I'll bite my lip" BS trying to make Contador look like a jerk for refusing to kiss his or Brunyeel's ass. Actually, that TDF made me a fan of Contador for standing up to LANCE.
dahoss2002 is offline  
Old 10-12-12, 04:31 AM
  #21  
Thulsadoom
Senior Member
 
Thulsadoom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Cape Vincent, NY
Posts: 1,340

Bikes: 2002 TREK 520, Schwinn Mesa WINTER BIKE

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 40 Post(s)
Liked 45 Times in 28 Posts
I'm sure that Lance is a bit of an SOB, yes. Let he who is without sin...and all that.

I'm also certain that things are being a bit "blown up" right now. Don't believe everything you read or hear while everyone is jumping on the bandwagon wanting to "reveal" how Lance Armstrong is the anti-christ. I would imagine that in a couple of years all the people who are now denouncing Lance will probably have mellowed and will speak fondly of Lance. It's just that it's currently cool to beat him to death.

Lance has faults and has made mistakes. He's also one of the greatest athletes of all time and strikes me as a basically good guy at heart. I'm not falling for all the BS.
Thulsadoom is offline  
Old 10-12-12, 05:38 AM
  #22  
richard_dupp
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 149
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Any of you been around American big business? This is how life is lived in the good ole USA.
richard_dupp is offline  
Old 10-12-12, 06:00 AM
  #23  
Thulsadoom
Senior Member
 
Thulsadoom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Cape Vincent, NY
Posts: 1,340

Bikes: 2002 TREK 520, Schwinn Mesa WINTER BIKE

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 40 Post(s)
Liked 45 Times in 28 Posts
Originally Posted by richard_dupp View Post
Any of you been around American big business? This is how life is lived in the good ole USA.
Oh yeah, and everything is sooooo much different ouside the US.
Thulsadoom is offline  
Old 10-12-12, 06:58 AM
  #24  
merlinextraligh
pan y agua
Thread Starter
 
merlinextraligh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Jacksonville
Posts: 30,994

Bikes: Willier Zero 7; Merlin Extralight; Calfee Dragonfly tandem, Calfee Adventure tandem; Cervelo P2; Motebecane Ti Fly 29er; Motebecanne Phantom Cross; Schwinn Paramount Track bike

Mentioned: 16 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1275 Post(s)
Liked 447 Times in 238 Posts
Originally Posted by Thulsadoom View Post
I'm sure that Lance is a bit of an SOB, yes. Let he who is without sin...and all that.

I'm also certain that things are being a bit "blown up" right now. Don't believe everything you read or hear while everyone is jumping on the bandwagon wanting to "reveal" how Lance Armstrong is the anti-christ. I would imagine that in a couple of years all the people who are now denouncing Lance will probably have mellowed and will speak fondly of Lance. It's just that it's currently cool to beat him to death.

Lance has faults and has made mistakes. He's also one of the greatest athletes of all time and strikes me as a basically good guy at heart. I'm not falling for all the BS.
Have you read Tyler's book? Read the USADA report? Followed the incident at Cache Cache? The fued with Simeoni? The firing of Prentiss Steffen? The run ins with various staff people etc etc. Armstrong as ass is not just some new revelation. It's just now we've got a lot of it compiled in one place, and sworn to under oath.

So no one is without sin, and all of us have made mistakes.

Most of us have not been on a multi decade program to systematically destroy people who are in the position to reveal our illegal schemes.
__________________
You could fall off a cliff and die.
You could get lost and die.
You could hit a tree and die.
OR YOU COULD STAY HOME AND FALL OFF THE COUCH AND DIE.
merlinextraligh is offline  
Old 10-12-12, 06:59 AM
  #25  
Pug
High Modulus
 
Pug's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Madison, NJ
Posts: 663

Bikes: Cervelo R3, Ridley X-Night

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by richard_dupp View Post
Any of you been around American big business? This is how life is lived in the good ole USA.
Yup. I'd bet most people who rise high up their respective pyramids are world class ***holes. So if Lance didn't ride a bike he'd probably be:

- hedge fund manager;
- beverly hills plastic surgeon;
- general officer in the military;
- US Senator;
- CEO;
- big revenue producer in any given field;
- and the list goes on.
Pug is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell or Share My Personal Information -

Copyright © 2023 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.