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Old 02-10-17, 10:06 AM   #1
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Why the attitude

On some bike forums, when new riders write in and say they would like to cycle but just cant get used to DF saddles, when I or some one say they should try a bent, we get met with an attitude.

Why is it that the DF camp seems to be threatened by recumbents? On these forums they dont even want anyone to mention bents as the answer to saddle pain.
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Old 02-10-17, 11:17 AM   #2
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They don't feel threatened, they feel like you are derailing the thread and bringing up something they deem irrelevant. Irrelevant because it is perceived as an overreaction to a simple problem. A sledgehammer to kill a fly. Many (most?) people can resolve their discomforts in other, less radical ways. And really, why shouldn't they try those things first before escalating things to getting a whole new bike and learning a whole new way to ride? Bents aren't perfect in every way, you know. The transition from upright to bent is not trouble-free for most people (and not cost free, for sure).


I agree there is a certain amount of narrow-mindedness at work, but who cares? Why do you want to convert everyone? There is lots of narrow-mindedness in the world. Do you walk around being indignant about everything, everywhere, all the time?
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Old 02-10-17, 11:22 AM   #3
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On some bike forums, when new riders write in and say they would like to cycle but just cant get used to DF saddles, when I or some one say they should try a bent, we get met with an attitude.

Why is it that the DF camp seems to be threatened by recumbents? On these forums they dont even want anyone to mention bents as the answer to saddle pain.
Seems to me you is the one that has the attitude.

Am I wrong about that?
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Old 02-10-17, 11:37 AM   #4
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just because you don't know how to adjust a DF to get comfortable, doesn't mean there isn't anyone that does. In fact, there are hundreds of people that have accounts here that do. Yes, it's not always easy, but it certainly can be done.

I have 50+ years of experience riding a DF. I foresee the day when I might decide to get a 'bent, but I'm not going to do that until I feel like it's the best thing for me. I have a lot of investment and experience in DF riding that I'm not going to give up on without a very good reason. Hectoring posts on threads about adjusting a DF are not going to get me to change, that's for sure. I'm as oppositional as anyone
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Old 02-10-17, 03:09 PM   #5
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just because you don't know how to adjust a DF to get comfortable, doesn't mean there isn't anyone that does. In fact, there are hundreds of people that have accounts here that do. Yes, it's not always easy, but it certainly can be done.
I understand that Rydabent's evangelism can wear thin, even for us; but you are apparently at the other end of the spectrum. You're dismissing the comfort issue as a personal failure -- not knowing how to adjust something, - a saddle? And you're so sure of yourself that you come here to tell us how stupid we are. Believe it or not, many of us recumbent riders are experienced in uprights, know how to adjust things, and still can't make an upright comfortable. Before switching, I had 20 years on them, and the best I ever achieved was "bearable" despite constant adjustments, changing saddles, bars, stems, even entire bikes. Some people just cannot get comfortable on them. If comfort is an issue and all the standard advice has failed, then it's valid to at least mention recumbents; because a lot of people still don't know that such bikes exist. And if a reading plug for recumbents gets your shorts in a wad, maybe your attitude is the problem. But, along with the mention should come a warning: Bents are NOT uprights. They're more expensive, and they handle differently and have a different speed profile. And most are slower than an upright racing bike. They can be a cultural shock as well as the difference in performance.

For mostly personal reasons, I'd rather that bents remain a semi-exclusive club. If enough others got bents and some eventually transitioned to fast ones, I'd lose my advantage. Nah, I'm safe.
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Old 02-10-17, 03:31 PM   #6
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I understand that Rydabent's evangelism can wear thin, even for us; but you are apparently at the other end of the spectrum. You're dismissing the comfort issue as a personal failure -- not knowing how to adjust something, - a saddle? And you're so sure of yourself that you come here to tell us how stupid we are. Believe it or not, many of us recumbent riders are experienced in uprights, know how to adjust things, and still can't make an upright comfortable. Before switching, I had 20 years on them, and the best I ever achieved was "bearable" despite constant adjustments, changing saddles, bars, stems, even entire bikes. Some people just cannot get comfortable on them. If comfort is an issue and all the standard advice has failed, then it's valid to at least mention recumbents; because a lot of people still don't know that such bikes exist. And if a reading plug for recumbents gets your shorts in a wad, maybe your attitude is the problem. But, along with the mention should come a warning: Bents are NOT uprights. They're more expensive, and they handle differently and have a different speed profile. And most are slower than an upright racing bike. They can be a cultural shock as well as the difference in performance.

For mostly personal reasons, I'd rather that bents remain a semi-exclusive club. If enough others got bents and some eventually transitioned to fast ones, I'd lose my advantage. Nah, I'm safe.
"Personal" meaning as it relates to individual persons. Sounds about right. If some people can do something, and others cannot, isn't that constitute personal failure for the latter group? Pointing out that someone hasn't been able to achieve a certain thing is not the same as calling someone stupid though, which I think you read into Unter's post all on your own.


In the context of rides longer than 3 hours or so, then you can count me in the group of failures. This does not keep me up at night. I am not envious of those who can. Really. I got over that after a couple years of bent riding.


Unter is well aware of how some DF riders, who aren't newbies, can have fit and comfort problems. He knows me, and I have been riding my uprights a lot the last few years, and has offered some advice on fit. I haven't really solved it yet, because as Unter already admits, sometimes its not easy. (My motivation to solve it might be relatively lax as well, as I have alternatives.....)


Unter is also well aware of what recumbents can do in the context of long distance. He has ridden on randonnees quite a lot with me, Dan Blumenfeld (Reddan on BROL), Len Z. out of NJ (lenz on BROL), a guy who rides a velo with the NJ randos (forget is name, but he's on BROL too), and probably some others I don't know about.


Here is the thing, rydabent thinks people get panties twisted over recumbents, when in fact it's just simply him. He doesn't know when to give it a rest. I get the impression he cashes in his tolerance chips quite rapidly. Once you're out of chips, folks are going to ask you to leave the table.


Sometimes they shoot the messenger even if they are not that upset about the message. Other people make the same kinds of suggestions as rydabent and they don't get the push back he does. That's just what I have observed. You are one such example, BP.

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Old 02-10-17, 03:38 PM   #7
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They don't feel threatened, they feel like you are derailing the thread and bringing up something they deem irrelevant. Irrelevant because it is perceived as an overreaction to a simple problem. A sledgehammer to kill a fly. Many (most?) people can resolve their discomforts in other, less radical ways. And really, why shouldn't they try those things first before escalating things to getting a whole new bike and learning a whole new way to ride? Bents aren't perfect in every way, you know. The transition from upright to bent is not trouble-free for most people (and not cost free, for sure).


I agree there is a certain amount of narrow-mindedness at work, but who cares? Why do you want to convert everyone? There is lots of narrow-mindedness in the world. Do you walk around being indignant about everything, everywhere, all the time?

Great answer.
Again, I say Bravo!
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Old 02-10-17, 03:47 PM   #8
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Your BF name says it all.

You are an advocate for recumbents, which is fine. But when you do so at every opportunity, people will react negatively because they consider your posts off topic and off putting.

So when you ask about attitude, you're right there is some, but you might look in a mirror for reason.
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Old 02-11-17, 07:30 AM   #9
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I understand that Rydabent's evangelism can wear thin, even for us; but you are apparently at the other end of the spectrum. You're dismissing the comfort issue as a personal failure -- not knowing how to adjust something, - a saddle? And you're so sure of yourself that you come here to tell us how stupid we are. Believe it or not, many of us recumbent riders are experienced in uprights, know how to adjust things, and still can't make an upright comfortable.
not at all, and I'm sorry you feel this way about my post. I was specifically addressing Rydabent, and his repeated assertion that the only way that someone can be comfortable on a DF is to ride a 'bent. I didn't say it was possible to get everyone comfortable on a DF. In fact, there is a current thread now where I actually wondered if the only way that person was going to get comfortable on a bike was to ride a 'bent. I wasn't going to post that there because I thought it might discourage them from riding at all. Certainly, it's a lot easier for most people to get comfortable on a 'bent, nobody really denies that. But if a person really wants to ride a DF and is having fit problems, telling them to get a bent is not helpful.

Steamer is a friend of mine, and we recently had a discussion of his DF fit where I gave up and told him he better stick to 'bents, which is what he does most of the time anyway. The only reason we were talking about it at all is because he wants to feel more comfortable on his DF. I would never try to get him or anyone else to switch. And furthermore, I don't want them to switch or see any good reason for them to switch. Just as there is no reason for anyone to want me to switch to a bent. Except for possibly the local 'bent dealer
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Old 02-11-17, 08:36 AM   #10
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I see nothing wrong with recommending that someone consider a recumbent as a solution to an issue with a DF bike. I'd guess that in some cases this could result in a poster finding the perfect solution, which would not have been otherwise considered. Riding a recumbent is odd and not for everybody, so any suggestion promoting a recumbent would likely be considered on the fringe leading to what you are calling "attitude". Don't let this bug you.

Interestingly, my posts on other forums related to discomfort on my recumbent trike were never met with suggestions to get a DF bike.
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Old 02-11-17, 09:43 AM   #11
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They don't feel threatened, they feel like you are derailing the thread and bringing up something they deem irrelevant. Irrelevant because it is perceived as an overreaction to a simple problem. A sledgehammer to kill a fly. Many (most?) people can resolve their discomforts in other, less radical ways. And really, why shouldn't they try those things first before escalating things to getting a whole new bike and learning a whole new way to ride? Bents aren't perfect in every way, you know. The transition from upright to bent is not trouble-free for most people (and not cost free, for sure).


I agree there is a certain amount of narrow-mindedness at work, but who cares? Why do you want to convert everyone? There is lots of narrow-mindedness in the world. Do you walk around being indignant about everything, everywhere, all the time?
Expand on your statement that moving to a bent is not trouble free. In my case after 4 or 5 starts I had no problem at all.
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Old 02-11-17, 10:38 AM   #12
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Expand on your statement that moving to a bent is not trouble free. In my case after 4 or 5 starts I had no problem at all.
There are tons of threads on BROL over the years where recent converts complain about learning to ride safely, in a stable manner, starting off from a standstill, lamenting how slow they are, how they have a numb butt, how their feet go to sleep, etc. You know all of this as you often reply in those threads.

Basically, you seem to think everyone is like you.
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Old 02-11-17, 05:41 PM   #13
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OK, maybe I should get MY shorts un-wadded.
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Old 02-11-17, 06:16 PM   #14
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just because you don't know how to adjust a DF to get comfortable, doesn't mean there isn't anyone that does. In fact, there are hundreds of people that have accounts here that do. Yes, it's not always easy, but it certainly can be done.

I have 50+ years of experience riding a DF. I foresee the day when I might decide to get a 'bent, but I'm not going to do that until I feel like it's the best thing for me. I have a lot of investment and experience in DF riding that I'm not going to give up on without a very good reason. Hectoring posts on threads about adjusting a DF are not going to get me to change, that's for sure. I'm as oppositional as anyone
To this I add that after 58 years of riding DF bikes, some of the last ones very nice, in 2005 I tested a recumbent, a RANS Tailwind. I bought it. The tailwind was so good, my mountain bike and my touring bike never turned a wheel again. The comfort and the view was so great, I basically had no use for either of them ever again. Every ride on the bent was further and faster.
For me it was like going from a 1937 car to a new 2017.

Dont get me wrong, I am not demanding everyone should ride bents, but OTOH bent riders like my self should not be silenced either. After 58 years on a DF, suffering a sore rump in the early spring, and thousands of hours staring at my front wheel, bents are revolutionary. And they do hold virtually all the speed records, one a trike was even ridden to the South pole.
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Old 02-11-17, 06:33 PM   #15
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Rydabent, how many cyclists have you converted? How long are you satisfied when you do catch a fish? Maybe focus on what you consider the successes, instead of the failures? Pedal On!
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Old 02-11-17, 06:52 PM   #16
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On some bike forums, when new riders write in and say they would like to cycle but just cant get used to DF saddles, when I or some one say they should try a bent, we get met with an attitude.

Why is it that the DF camp seems to be threatened by recumbents? On these forums they dont even want anyone to mention bents as the answer to saddle pain.
Why ask us? We're recumbent people.

If you want to know how DF folks feel, ask on the Road Bike forum. I'm sure they'll have plenty of answers for you.
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Old 02-11-17, 09:33 PM   #17
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Sometimes it's the messenger, not the message.
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Old 02-12-17, 07:22 AM   #18
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Sometimes it's the messenger, not the message.
So-----------------shoot the messenger??????
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Old 02-12-17, 07:32 AM   #19
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The tailwind was so good, my mountain bike and my touring bike never turned a wheel again.
Pardon my ignorance, but how does one go mountain biking on a bent?
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Old 02-12-17, 08:06 AM   #20
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Pardon my ignorance, but how does one go mountain biking on a bent?
It's just a matter of degree. What most people call mountain biking, any bent can do.
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Old 02-12-17, 08:32 AM   #21
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It's just a matter of degree. What most people call mountain biking, any bent can do.
I hear what you're saying. My idea of proper mtbing is typically log covered paths, mud, narrow 2x4 bridges, steep inclines, rocky terrain, technical stuff.
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Old 02-12-17, 08:42 AM   #22
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Why ask us? We're recumbent people.

If you want to know how DF folks feel, ask on the Road Bike forum. I'm sure they'll have plenty of answers for you.
Is there anybody who reads this forum who is not a recumbent rider (or is considering one)?

As a further comment to the original question, "why attitude?", I am going to opine that when the UCI outlawed bents from competition in 1934, they triggered the prejudicial perceptions among serious competitive cyclists and at the same time relegated the design development to the fringe. This trickle-down effect is present in most sports/recreational activities with professional governing bodies.

I'd be curious to see what would happen if the UCI reversed this ban.
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Old 02-12-17, 11:27 AM   #23
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Is there anybody who reads this forum who is not a recumbent rider (or is considering one)?
I'll give it a try. I don't really experience discomfort on a bike and would never consider a recumbent because it aggravates my sciatica where a bike actually provides some relief. For those of you who are physically able to ride a bike and chose to ride a recumbent anyway, that's great. Whatever floats your boat. I'm just trying to answer the OP's question.

Whenever I see people sit-skiing I think it's awesome that guys with physical disabilities are able to get out on the mountain and ski.


I feel the same way whenever I see someone on a recumbent. I think it's awesome that someone who is physically unable to ride a bike has an alternative to get out there anyway. So if someone were to suggest to me that I give a recumbent a try, it would be like them suggesting that I am no longer physically able to ride a bike. Even if it's true, it would be hard for me to accept, and I might get emotional about it.

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Old 02-12-17, 01:31 PM   #24
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Pardon my ignorance, but how does one go mountain biking on a bent?
You dont, but then there are not many mountains in Nebr.
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Old 02-12-17, 02:04 PM   #25
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I'll give it a try. I don't really experience discomfort on a bike and would never consider a recumbent because it aggravates my sciatica where a bike actually provides some relief. For those of you who are physically able to ride a bike and chose to ride a recumbent anyway, that's great. Whatever floats your boat. I'm just trying to answer the OP's question.

Whenever I see people sit-skiing I think it's awesome that guys with a physical disabilities are able to get out on the mountain and ski.

I feel the same way whenever I see someone on a recumbent. I think it's awesome that someone who is physically unable to ride a bike has an alternative to get out there anyway. So if someone were to suggest to me that I give a recumbent a try, it would be like them suggesting that I am no longer physically able to ride a bike. Even if it's true, it would be hard for me to accept, and I might get emotional about it.
You misunderstand, bigtime. Riding recumbents is not like sit skiing (taking the DIS out of disABILITY).
A recumbent bike is just another kind of bicycle. Or tricycle. Ridden by a variety of folks for a variety of reasons.
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