Magilla Gorilla

I was invited back to my clubs ride tonight. About 40 miles on a very hilly course.
I am way out of shaped do to my work schedual but road anyway.
Did well on my Aero in the big climbs. No over 40 DF rider passed me on any hill. The under 40 types? I am near 50. Well lets just say I had to catch back up when the course flatened out.
23 plus average speed in the hills of SE Wisconsin kettle moraine forest roads. lots of hills and lots of fun.
Glad to see how the lowracer guys beat up on the DF guys on there lowracers here on this forum. Would love to see some of them perform in our hills on our club rides.

Magilla

Magilla Gorilla

John Schlitter and Rich Pinto and Jim Kern.
Three
fast Florida names in the Recumbent world.
Jim Kern did nearly 500 miles on an Aero in a RAAM 24 hour qualifier event.
John Schlitter was on the 6 day RAAM 4 man relay team.
Six days three hours to cross America on a recumbent. Not a lowracer but on an Aero. The hated fast recumbent speed machine.
Opinions very. So the need for a forum such as this one.
My next ultra will be on the dreaded DF machine. 100 miles of hills hills and more hills.
So many hills that a DF is a welcome releif since one can stand up to climb...

Magilla

Magilla Gorilla

Six inches off the ground in an Ultra event must have been brutal for those lowracer guys in Team RAAM.
My High Racer is about 23" off the ground and the last few days I rode my DF bike just to excape the asphault heat thing. Road temps near the road surface are over 130 degrees when its in the 90's and just six inches above that is crazy. The Aero is at 23" and the DF is even higher. So each design has pros and cons.
I am in no way anti lowracer but facts do speak. And in a race like RAAM this was a huge factor in "05.
Now I see wheel sise limitations in the RAAM rule book. No Lowracer and Highracer combos nor DF/recumbent combo crossings of the good ole USA.
Good DF Bull**** to keep real competition out of there races.

Magilla

BlazingPedals

I have to agree with your opinion on lowracers being brutal on hot sunny days. It's a problem, even here in the northern tier of states; and I have trouble imagining how bad it would get in the south. Really bad, I'm sure. That's one reason why my next bike will be a highracer. If I ever get done building the frame! Not to replace the LR, but to supplement it. IMHO they're both good platforms.

I will never be a great hill climber. I wasn't a hill climber on an upright and I'm still not on a recumbent. I'm average at best. I can see the attraction of a DF on very hilly terrain, but my body just can't take that punishment anymore. I keep 'threatening' (hah!) to borrow a DF for a ride or two, just to see; but it probably ain't ever gonna happen.

scarry

That's the word I was looking for, thanks that was driving me crazy, I couldn't find it because I was so far off in the spelling.

cur·mudg·eon Pronunciation Key (kr-mjn)
n.
An ill-tempered person full of resentment and stubborn notions.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
[Origin unknown.]
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
cur·mudgeon·ly adj.
cur·mudgeon·ry n.

But really, will you Florida riders stop talking about hills. Unless your ride has over 1,000 ft of climbing in 30 miles, IT IS FLAT. Maybe these bent riders that are so slow would be just as slow on a DF. At least on the recumbent they are not in pain.

I commonly do rides with total climbing of over 4,000 feet in 60 miles here in the SF Bay area.
The climb up Mt. Hamilton totals 5,000 ft of climbing in less than 20 miles. I do these climbs on my Aero recumbant and the only riders passing me are the totally race ready set 20 years my junior. I just finished the Markleeville Death Ride with 15,000 ft of climbing in 129 miles for the 7th time on a recumbent. I got to the top of Carson Pass in the middle of the pack, even after spending an hour at lunch. My time was the same as in 98' the last year I used my DF bike, and I was younger then. I'm now 51. On the Sierra Century, after doing the 7,000 ft of climbing, and while riding the last 20 miles into the finish which is downhill, I overtook a large club paceline and even passed them, but I was getting tired, so I eventually got caught. This Saturday I'm doing the Marin Century with 7,000 ft of climbing. We'll see how I do.

https://www.marincyclists.com/html/Ma...05MtTamDbl.htm
https://www.deathride.com/
https://www.shastahome.com/summit-century/
https://www.sacwheelmen.org/sc2005/routes.html
https://www.grizzlycentury.org/grizhome.htm

Olebiker

I've never claimed that all bent riders are slow. What I am saying is that I never see these fast bent riders I keep hearing about online. The only bents that show up at my club's two major rides each year, The Spaghetti 100 and TOSRV-South, are usually the last ones to finish. I don't know when I have ever seen a bent show up at a club ride here in Tallahassee so the only ones I have to compare are the ones at big rides I go to.

And what is this pain that I keep hearing bent riders talk about? I have ridden wedgies for over 30 years and the only time I was ever in pain was when I tried to use a Brooks saddle that never would break in. If you are in pain on a DF bike, it isn't set up right.

Folks, you are never going to build the popularity of bents by insulting uprights and their riders. I am happy and comfortable on my upright. When I get rich I might buy a Bachetta just to mix up my riding but not because I find my upright lacking.

BlazingPedals

If you truly have no pain when riding your bike, then I'd consider you one of the Lucky Few. I know my DFs always hurt me, and the older I got the worse they hurt. Rode 'em for 25+ years before I finally gave up on them. The final straw was carpal-tunnel pain that lasted for a week following a tour. It's funny now when I see DF riders standing up to stretch, squirming on their saddles to redistribute the weight, or shaking their hands because their fingers have gone numb; because I don't have to do any of that anymore. Riding a bent requires a few sacrifices, so if a DF rider has no overwhelming reason to switch, it's generally better to stick with what they've got. That would make you a poor candidate for a bent.

megaman

For me, my hands went to sleep. It got so every 3 miles I was shaking my hands and arms to get feeling back. I did talk with other riders with the same exact issue. They couldn't solve the problem either. Then there's the saddle issue. I bet I went through at least 10 different saddles in seven years trying to find something comfortable. It never happened. I'm a recreational rider. Twice a week on my hybrid and my leg muscles were sore after 50 mile rides.

Not one of those problems on a bent.

scarry

No insult intended, honestly.

I rode and enjoyed my Trek 1500 from 90' till 99'. And many other fine road and touring bikes in the 70's, and 80's. But over the years, as I aged, it got more and more painful. It was set up perfect, saddle was good. My butt just got these saddle sores on the pressure points, (sit bones) that would only go away if I stopped riding. Also I got neck pain in the later years that took months to go away. If you have no pain, than lucky you.
I don't see how pointing out how painful uprights can be can be interpreted as insulting. For some of us it's just a fact. No amount of tweeking with position or saddle or shorts will help for us. Part of it is just age, when I was younger pain was not a factor, my body just got old. Also as you age, you need to rest on rides more, and on a recumbent resting is more restfull. You just have some slow bent riders in your area, maybe they don't care about going fast.

Here's to hoping for your good fortune, my you ride an Aero someday. Because it's hecka fun.

sbhikes

I enjoy riding my upright bike, but in my opinion the seat is a mojor design flaw. Even with a special female seat with a hole cut out I'm still putting a major portion of my body weight directly on the most protruding soft tissue in my "down there" region. That protruding soft tissue also has the distinction of being some of the most sensitive tissue I have. I have never had an upright bike that didn't make a produding body part sit on top of a protruding shape. Why not cupped? Yep, design flaw.

Then there is the whole neck thing. I have a shortie neck on my bike and believe me it has made a world of difference, both for my neck and for my protruding soft tissues down there. Nevertheless, I do have to look up all the time just to see where I'm going, which does cause my neck to get tired after a while. Eventually I get a bit of a crick in my neck if I go far enough.

Neither of these design issues are present on my recumbent. Recumbents aren't perfect and have design flaws of their own, but most of those I have not found to cause me any physical discomfort.

skookum

It sounds to me like the seat on your DF bike might not be adjusted properly. Is it wide enough for you? It should be just wide enough for your sit bones to contact the seat comfortably. Is it angled properly? It should be angled so when you are in riding position your weight is on your sit bones and not on your "protruding soft tissue".

Are you talking about your neck that holds up your head or part of your bike? Do you mean the stem? Are your handlebars high enough?

Many of the problems people experience with DF bikes is they are set up to mimic road racers, with the seat much higher than the handlebars, so the weight is on your hands and you have to crane your head up to see the scenery.

I have had my recumbent for a week now and if I ride for more than an hour my butt gets sore. My Atlantis with a Brooks saddle doesn't do that to me.

bnet1

Recumbutt? Try reclining the seat more to get some weight off your behind and more on your back. Sometimes some people's glute muscles don't take well to working while being sat upon.

skookum

I'll try that, bnet1, thanks.

It reminds me of how I used to feel when I drove a long way in my old Toyota pick-up with the bench seat. When I got the Subaru , no problem.

Magilla Gorilla

John,

All bike designs are comprimises at best. If I had the cash I would be like Robin Williams and have a whole fleet of bicycles and a machinic to maintain them! But such is life. I have few bikes and no one but myself to maintain them so I keep it simple.
It just seems to me that the folks over at Bacchetta are on to something in the recumbent world. The high racer design or whatever you want to call it seems to bring together the elements of speed and practicality for a really good road bike. This is not to devalue lowracers. The NoCom is a work of bicycle art in my opinon.
But you must admit that this years RAAM recumbent was an eye opener. No one is talking about this fact John nor am I trying to belittle any one and there bikes.
Bacchetta is the leader in the bent world right now and I applaude there efforts and there sponsorship help at events. All of this serves a purpose and as a former team Bacchetta rider I know all this first hand. They are doing more than anyone else in the industry to promote 'bents.
I have observed way to much hostility from lowracer people on the net for my tastes in the recent past. There performances on the bike have not met up to the hype of there owners and yet the Aero has exceeded all expectations as a performance bike at RAAM. What more can I say to that John?

Magilla

pcrx

I am getting this vibe as I am looking for new bike. Being new to the bike scene has opened my eyes, and I am amazed at all the angst over what other people are riding.

WTF?

Why would anyone care? I went to my LBS and looked at a "comfort bike" as I have some moderate spinal stenosis and will likely be having back surgery. I will forevermore need something more comfortable over my current Schwinn Moab mountain bike, which I was never too comfortable on anyway.

I do most riding on paved trails and in putting around town.

I test rode the comfort bike and was eyeing the recumbents (as till then I had not even thought of those as an option) and left happy - feeling like I had found a match for me (comfort bike at that time)

THEN, to my dismay, the more people I told about my new bike I was goping to buy - the MORE people said stuff like

"Thats a girl grandma bike"
"Thise are for old geezers."
"Dorks ride those."

etc.



Suppose the same goes for recumbents, eh?

Sad, since all the negative energy has me second thinking my own purchase - when it shouldn't matter.

I ride a Vespa ET4 and have NEVER experienced the kind of crap as some cyclists I have talked with..... even from hardcore Harley guys. They usually just think its cool to be on 2 wheels, wether it be Vespa, Hog or whatever.

Guess the same comaraderie doesn't hold true for cycles???

Shame.

skookum

Sheesh, even among bent riders there seems to be a schism beween low racers and high racers. I haven't told any of my hard core roadie friends that I have a recumbent. I only ride it in the dead of night , suitably illuminated, of course.

BlazingPedals

LOL! I'd say those proponents of really low, rolling carbon sculptures (and we know who those are...) have some 'splainin to do. After all the bragging, trash talk, etc, what do they have to show? Big losses at RAAM and at Black Bear. A woman and a 16 year old kid beating Alan. Maybe it'll shut them up this winter. When the trash talk starts, just ask if the latest secret-weapon bike will let them take better than 84th placed out of 200.

I seem to remember only one lowracer could beat the Bacchettas a few years ago at Stevens Point, and he had a tailbox. Everyone else came in together, didn't they? That would tell me that the two styles are pretty evenly matched. BTW, I was invited to start with the group, but I had no illusions of hanging with them - in fact at my low level of training that year, I was happy I lasted as long as I did.

sbhikes

I ride a Vespa ET4, too! Red. I had a mint green one but crashed it so I bought a red one. I went for a scooter ride with a big bunch of Vespas and all the Harley guys waved and gave us the peace sign. Harleys and Vespas seem to wave to each other. But not the crotch-rocket guys on Japanese bikes. The Goldwing guys will be your best friends if you meet them in a bar or something, but out on the road they don't wave.

The camraderie isn't any better for bikers as for cyclists.

I don't worry about what people think of my recumbent. I like it, I have fun riding it, I get lots of waves from the fellow commuters out there who recognize me, and I try to give a big wave to the other recumbents I see. Some people are curious, some scoff, some praise you. That's just the way it is.

jeff-o

I've been considering a Vespa or something, like it. What kind of license do you need for it? Motorcycle?

EDIT: I just checked, and yes, you need a motorcycle license to ride anything over 49cc (as I expected). So how do these things handle winter driving?

scarry

Nope, most every cyclist I meet on century rides and the local gathering places think my recumbent is really cool.
And when I pass them on a climb, well.......

re_biker@yahoo.

I concur wholeheartedly! I ride a 2004 year model Cycle Genius STX CLWB 'bent with dual 20-inch wheels and lower to mid-level 8-speed components; the bike is listed at 36.5 pounds. My bottom bracket is 23.5 inches high, so I am able to gain a decent "recumbent tuck" that makes the bike ride rather similar to a SWB 'bent. I switched from a flat handlebar to a 26-inch riser with a four-inch rise angled horizontally toward me and I swapped the stock 20X1.5 Kenda Quest tires with a pair of 85 psi Primo Wall BMX performance tires: 20X1.85 rear; 20X2.10 front! I average maybe 12 MPH mile after happy mile; I just don't have any need for speed! I work at a local bike shop in Silverdale, Washington, as an assembly guy and bike mechanic-in-training, and last week when we were visited by reps from Cannondale, I got the chance to test ride the carbon-composite Dura-ace equipped Synapse road bike that retails for a tad over four grand. The Synapse is all of this: fast, very light at 16 pounds, and VERY uncomfortable for all the reasons that make recumbents so VERY comfortable, so we all have so many choices between out'n'out speed and long range comfort: like that wonderful lady sbhikes, I choose all-day cruising comfort at a moderate pace that 'bents are famous for! Lastly, since my CG STX has a full 4130 chro-moly frame, I plan to upgrade to Deore XT hubs and a SRAM X-7 rear derailleur sometime with-in the next few months; I've owned my STX for one year and it is all I need for the foreseeable future! Happy riding to you and yours from a friend named Bill !!

Magilla Gorilla

John,

I would agree with you that 'bents are faster than DF bikes but statements like this just serve to show how stupid recumbent riders are really. Fast, good DF riders on a hilly course are a formidable challange and I live in the Midwest where I have always invited my Lowracer pals from Chicago to come up for a "ride" yet its always a noshow John.
I have rode with you John and you were not even a close match for me on your "superior" lowracer bicycle and yet you choose to post such nonsense on a public message board.
This is no means a disrespect to you mearly a fact of life. You have the right to think and post what you want on a public message board. I am just calling you on it.
DF bikes are not as slow as you think and Unfaired recumbents are not as fast as you think compared to whats out there in the high end DF world. We have a long way to go to match the technology in recumbent land that already exists in the DF world.
Just the facts......


Magilla Gorilla

bentrox!

I believe John also has stated a recumbent is not for everybody and "if a DF rider has no overwhelming reason to switch, it's generally better to stick with what they've got." Seems a reasonable conclusion to me. Ride what you want. If you're an enthusiast, where's the harm in that? He's pedaling bents not peddling bibles.

Frankly I find that John's posts are almost always informative and even-handed, unlike yours, MG. You describe others as "stupid recumbent riders" that "choose to post such nonsense" while in the same breath maintain "this is no means a disrespect to you." Oh, really?

bkaapcke

I switched to a LWB recumbent when the seat problems and wrist pain from DF bikes got to be too much. I love it and will never go back, because there is no more pain and I ride a lot more. What you need is new friends. bk

MaxBender

There's a lot of prejudice against bents. Last time I took mine to the LBS, the guy complemented me on my nice bike, and mentioned that he had never ridden one.

Moments later, he launched into the "Recumbents Can't Climb" thing and why they all have to have 3 chainrings, etc...

If he's never ridden one, how do he know?