rugerben

scratch that. stupid comment. and self editing.

cat0020

What have you to contribute to this thread so far?

Can you deny the truth in my comment?

What's wrong with self editing?

rugerben

I just edited my comment because I had made a silly joke that made no sense because I confused my terminology.
That's all.
I'm darn impressed that this guy covered the distance that he did. Rock on. I know that I wouldn't be able to!!!

sean costin

No doubt, Boardman is king. Consider that the UCI has all kinds of record categories. Check it out online. It also has masters categories for old guys like me and I'm proud to say that I would be the UCI world record holder for my age group if I had done that distance on an upright. In fact I would be the record holder for as low as the 30-35 year age group in masters. There are a number of other upright guys with less distance claiming the hour record.

There are many variables to consider when evaluating and comparing hour performances. Consider for instance the slick head fairing that Boardman used. That would not be allowed with a WRRA record. Consider also that Chris Boadman was a professional cyclist, while I am strictly an amateur. Look at the records set at 10,000 feet above sea level. That is a 3.5km advantage! Moser admitted to blood doping for his hour but before it was outlawed, so it's OK to keep the record on the books. I could go on and on. The guys I look up to are Obree and Boardman. I'll get closer to them before I'm done.

In my case, the fact is that no one has ever gone faster for the hour on an unfaired recumbent. Recumbents are a different category. The UCI came to that conclusion 75 years ago and we only started keeping the recumbent records a few years ago. Recumbents have about 1 millionth of the racing development that the upright racing category has. If you are not impressed by the speeds now, then just wait a few more years, or possibly a few more months.

Sean Costin

Mooo

Nicely done and gently phrased. Thanks.

However...
Obree's helmet is a fairing but splitter plate is not?
A "prone" recumbent would not qualify based on excessive prone-ness?

I are confused.

markw

The splitter plate is in the design of the frame. Obree's helmet is an aditional aero device. Basically if it's only function is for aero, then it's an aero device, if it serves another function like the splitter plate then it's not considered an aero device. The nocom takes every advantage of the rules to make it one aero bike without using fairings.

Mooo

Okay, the helmet in the opening picture isn't an awful lot different than the one in the pic's I've seen of Obree's. Is there really a difference between them? Color, obviously. Probably length? 8cm OK, 10cm not? What's the cutoff?

What does the splitter plate do? Is it there as an artistic flair or was it molded as a part of the frame to approach the limit of the rules of add-on fairings?

For that matter, what is the purpose a full body lycra suit?
Fashion would appear to be more the casualty than the causality.

It continues to have the feel of a game set up for low racer proponents to feel good about themselves, and that's not a big deal. The problem is, as the rules tightly refine themselves around a shape or a class, the results become proportionally less meaningful.

Aero92

For me the biggest deal is having fun and taking on a personal challenge. Just learning to ride a lowracer confidently on the streets and bike paths in and among traffic was a huge challenge for me. After that it became fun. Have you ridden any recumbent bikes? If so, which ones? If not, why not disclose your location and we'll try and help you find a shop where you can take a test ride. Or maybe there's some other local activity and perhaps some generous soul will let you try their bent.

Me? I'll ride any platform that I can afford (or borrow) at any given moment. Road bike, mountain bike, track bike, tandem, recumbent, what-have-you. Everything offers it's own unique challenge. Unfaired recumbent hour records are just one of a multitude of personal challenges.

When I ride my lowracer out among road bikes I always mention that I ride a road bike too and offer any curious riders the chance to get on and feel what it's like for themselves. I've even mooched rides on some pretty cool looking racing bikes along the way. It's all good to me. I posted this video here in order to stir up a little interest, and not controversy. In fact I post a lot of videos! People have commented that they were inspired to give it a try themslves after seeing that it wasn't such a mystery and did look like a lot of fun.

I look forward to reading your first lowracer ride report! I hope it's sooner than later.

danielmramos

Hey, they should do a one hour trial on real roads. I wonder how it would work out if it were off the track? It would be more like a grand pri, cool.

sean costin

Moo,
I'm glad you are questioning. It is the spirit of recumbent cycling to question the established way of thinking.

Helmets: The WRRA and the IHPVA have determined that all helmets must meet national safety standards. I think this is a good idea. You have to buy something off the shelf and you cant modify it . Helmets should be there to protect riders from serious injury. Boardman's helmet appears to be no more than a carbon fiber shell that would not offer any impact protection. In fact ,this helmet was quite long and if it were turned forcefully in a crash it could cause a neck injury. An un-padded helmet creates a significantly smaller aerodyanmic profile that gives an advantage over someone with a padded helmet. Laid back recumbent riders have the additional problem that the available aerodynamic helmets are designed for a different body position, so the aerodyanmics are not optimized.

Splitter plates: The WRRA and the HPRa allow splitter plates on what are considered Unfaired recumbents bikes. The bike that Boardman used incorporated this same concept in the area from the front of the down tube to the rear wheel. My personal opinion is that splitter plates are a good design solution which offers improved aerodyamics, and stronger structures with minimal weight. Categorically it has a distinctly different visual appearance from a faired rider tailcone and it's effectiveness is not not as good, but still worth doing.

The rules differ a bit between the HPRa and WRRA. The HPRa requires the splitters to be permanently bonded and integral to the frame, but the WRRA does not make that distinction. I raised a few eyebrows last year when I raced a Challenge NME with Latex splitters bonded on to the frame. This was later dubbed the Costin Condom. A vote of the racers determined that it was acceptable. My personal experience is that the splitter concept works and that a spinning rear wheel is an effective splitter.

The skinsuit was not a fashion statement. I had this custom skinsuit made because it lowered my drag. My consultations with tight wearer Matt Weaver and Chet Kyle (who developed the Nike Swift Suit and Lance Armstrong's racing clothing) confirmed real world testing that tights are faster than no tights. I was able to get a 4-5% reduction in drag. Lance got something like 8%! with his improved clothing. The body is the biggest thing on the bike. The texture of the surface should not be ignored. I didn't have time to optimize the suit since I received it the day before I left for California. The other good thing is that I didn't have to shave my hairy legs. I did that a couple times and It was not much fun.

Part of the problem that everyone seems to have is that our only frame of reference is the UCI and the established norms of upright cycling. Unfortunately this brainwashes us to think of everything in relation to UCI records rather than to imagine a new recumbent set of standards customized to our needs. Without the structure for a new set of records, records wont even be attempted. This is a proven fact. The UCI records were built up as a progression over 100 years or so. The IHPVA records were built up over a progression of 30+ years. Both record sets started out humbly by today's standards. Why should we expect any different with the WRRA. With more records being set and recumbent use and racing on a schedule of continued growth, the records will rise and the UCI dominated frame of reference will fade in the same way that diamond frame bikes have faded for most recumbent riders.

It's rare that I get a chance to say Oxymoron, but another poster mentioned something about a recumbent prone and that was the first word that came to mind. If you look at the fastest ever UCI times, the bike design is creeping toward prone- certainly in the upper body. Prone is much more akin to upright cycling than recumbent. It is the opposite. I dont care much for this position for the same reasons I abandoned traditional upright bikes years ago. Sometimes prones race with recumbents just as uprights do, but that doesn't make them recumbents.

Sean Costin

Mooo

Thanks for clarifying, and congratulations on an outstanding effort!

aikigreg

Sean Costin - my hero. My team set a new record at the Texas time trials - a 36 hour, 4 man race which we completed in 25.5 hrs. I broke the course record for fastest loop. 20 mile course with 18 miles of steady elevation gain and a big drop at the end. Hit a top speed of 46 and shattered the "upright" record of 51m30s by 1m15s. More importantly, had a BLAST.

rjacob

The problem with that is lack of controls. You would be likely to have wind in one or the other directions. And also finding a chunk of road to ride on that is level. You would need about a 50 mile stretch of very flat road. How would you compare someone who rode in one place under certain condition against someone else who rode elsewhere under radically different conditions.

Sixty Fiver

An open road would certainly throw up too many variables as no two days would ever be the same and anyone who can ride nearly 30 miles in an hour on anything is deserving of kudos and some respect.

There was a time (half a lifetime ago) when I really should have considered professional racing and perhaps may have even been able to challenge things like the one hour (upright) record and am inspired that someone my age is setting some new ones, albeit in an different class.

Riding a recumbent is something I want to do as it's probably the only way I could ride as fast as I once did on an upright although I'm stil pretty fast for an "old" guy.

aikigreg

See my most recent post - our 500 mile race was done on a 20 mile hilly loop with not-so-smooth roads, and I set the course loop speed record, and my team broke the 4-man 500 mile record by over an hour. This was the first time a 4-man bent team entered the contest. John Schlitter was at the same race as an individual and threw down a 28 hour ride - amazing, and again, a new record.

Bents are real, folks. And as we get more and more athletic people on them, instead of the traditional "white beared, big bellied geezers," people are going to take notice. When word got around about my lap record, people were talking to me left and right, and cheering me on at every loop. I was interviewed by a reporter as well - if I get into the article I'll link it.