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Aren't recumbent bikes inefficient?

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Aren't recumbent bikes inefficient?

Old 12-10-08, 05:25 PM
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Aren't recumbent bikes inefficient?

This is probably the oldest and newbiest question you'll ever get in the recumbent forum, but I'm intrigued. There's a chap (or woman, I'm not sure) who works at the Home Depot near me and has a really cool recumbent. It had me thinking: Sure, it looks very comfortable, but it also looks inefficient (read: slow). Is this true?

I know nothing about recumbents other than how they look and what I can imagine they feel like to ride.

Are they fast? Is it easier to push hard against the pedals or harder than standing while riding a roadbike?

Thanks for entertaining such a lame and newbie question.
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Old 12-10-08, 05:39 PM
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A slow recumbent might be a slow design. Having owned one I'd say the slowness was the motor, me. The non-drafting human power only record is held by a recumbent. 82 MPH on a level road. Going uphill recumbents have no real advantage over often lighter stock bikes. Going down hill they can often beat much lighter bikes ridden by better cyclists. Check out the recumbent forum.
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Old 12-10-08, 06:49 PM
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https://www.bikeforums.net/recumbent/475158-wow.html

Most "regular bike" riders say that their average speed increases when they switch to a recumbent.
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Old 12-10-08, 06:59 PM
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Originally Posted by ken cummings View Post
... Check out the recumbent forum.
This IS the recumbent forum!

It's generally accepted that riders put out slightly less power in the recumbent position. My MHR is about 10 BPM slower when reclined. But regardless of that, I'm faster on the 'bents. Why? Aerodynamics is a big part of it for me, but also that I don't have to stop for butt breaks on longer rides. Even when I got my first, slower recumbent, it didn't take long for my roadie friends to figure out that if they stopped even once for a butt break on a century ride, I was nearly impossible to catch again.

I have fast bikes, though. It's best to compare a recumbent to its upright equivalent; your average 'bent has 1.5" tires and doesn't stack up well against a skinny-tired road bike.
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Old 12-10-08, 07:54 PM
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Old 12-10-08, 07:56 PM
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Darn you vik, I am trying to resist getting a lowracer.
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Old 12-10-08, 09:47 PM
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I was a Cat 2 racer in the '80s and went to bents in 2003 for medical reasons. I can attain speeds, averages and times in my 50s that I did back then. I could never do that on an upright. My fastest century ever was done on a bent at 55 years of age.

There are slow bents and there are fast bents.
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Old 12-11-08, 09:59 AM
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Okay, I see a lowracer is the fastest cycling machine for the road. Now, I noticed it is also impossible to have USS on a lowracer because it's too close to the road - is that correct? Also, for anyone who has ridden a lowracer on roads, I'm curious: how is your vision (ability to see other cars coming & pedestrians) on a lowracer?
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Old 12-11-08, 11:36 AM
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Originally Posted by Trsnrtr View Post
I was a Cat 2 racer in the '80s and went to bents in 2003 for medical reasons. I can attain speeds, averages and times in my 50s that I did back then. I could never do that on an upright. My fastest century ever was done on a bent at 55 years of age.

There are slow bents and there are fast bents.
Similar story here. I was a Cat 3 in the late 70s / early 80s. Found myself slowing down over the years then tried a Corsa because I thought they looked cool. Bought it on the spot. Now at 50 I'm faster than I've ever been.
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Old 12-11-08, 01:52 PM
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One thing I've noticed is not inefficiency, but it seems the drive train inherently gets more awkward. An upright bike consists of a bike made for maximum simplicity, and then the person contorts himself to fit. The recumbents start with the person and contort the bike around them.

The issue of pushing hard against the pedals I suspect is a non-issue. I ride a single-speed upright bike. But I don't know if I've ever had to stand on the pedals. The problem isn't needing to give a mighty heave-ho one time, the problem is having to put 30% of your weight on that pedal over and over and over. If you were having a hill-climb on a 10' course, then there might be an advantage to having something to brace your butt against while you pedaled.
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Old 12-11-08, 02:03 PM
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Originally Posted by SoonerBent View Post
Similar story here. I was a Cat 3 in the late 70s / early 80s. Found myself slowing down over the years then tried a Corsa because I thought they looked cool. Bought it on the spot. Now at 50 I'm faster than I've ever been.
It would be interesting to see how you perform on a current technology road bike. There's a bit of a difference between late 70's and 2008.

Bob
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Old 12-11-08, 02:14 PM
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Fred Flintstone's car certainly 'looks inefficient', but I cannot for the life of me see how any bicycle, particularly a recumbent, can 'look inefficient'. The original post seems like a classic case of 'what I don't understand, I fear'.
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Old 12-12-08, 11:22 AM
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On a low racer the only vision restriction is what is beneath you. Forward and up line of sight is not the problem. I suspose a squirrel, small dog or cat might run in front of you and be below your line of sight. Or you might hit a pot hole if you are not paying attention to what's way out in front of you.

On a DF, while riding in the drops or on aero bars it's exactly the opposite. You see what's under your front wheel just fine, but have to wrench your neck to look forward. Looking at that pot hole as your front wheel drops into it is not much help; especially if it's a really big one and your next action is to fly over the bars and test the integrity of your helmet.

Being seen is a whole other story, however. It's fairly easy for a low racer to be invisible to driver in a car in traffic. You can be below the hood at a stop light, for instance.
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Old 12-12-08, 12:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Crank57 View Post
On a DF, while riding in the drops or on aero bars it's exactly the opposite. You see what's under your front wheel just fine, but have to wrench your neck to look forward. Looking at that pot hole as your front wheel drops into it is not much help; especially if it's a really big one and your next action is to fly over the bars and test the integrity of your helmet.
Your post would have had a lot more credibility if you hadn't shown such an obvious bias through emotional exaggeration in your description. Its BS to talk about a particular bike design causing the rider to miss a pothole so big that it results in flying over the handlebars. That's riding with your head in a dark spot.

Bob

Last edited by wrobertdavis; 12-13-08 at 07:57 AM.
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Old 12-13-08, 07:18 AM
  #15  
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Originally Posted by StephenH View Post
One thing I've noticed is not inefficiency, but it seems the drive train inherently gets more awkward.
Depends on the design. Mine has a short and simple drive train.
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Old 12-13-08, 07:44 AM
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Every bike has its own purpose. I road an upright bike for 50 years, got my first bike when I was 5 years old. When I was young I could ride 23 mph for an hour non stop with no problem. I have been riding recumbents for 3 years. Each recumbent has a different wind resistance. The low racer is the fastest wind resistance is 65% less than an upright bike. I am out of shape and have not ridden a bike in 25 years it is a struggle for me to do 15 mph on an upright bike. I can cruise 15 mph on a Tour Easy and 22 to 24 mph on a low racer.

Tour easy is an extremely nice ride but the down side is the bike is very long and hard to haul inside an SUV, the bike is too large for a bike rack, and it is about 10 lbs heaver than an upright bike. I am going to sell my Tour Easy and get a SunRay. https://www.easyracers.com/11-ez_sunray_sx.htm

I love my Low Racer bike. This has to be the ultimate bike. This bike is FAST, real FAST. Even though I am old, out of shape, over weight, I can pass the young guys on my low racer bike on a flat road and down hill. The big advantage to the low racer is everyone that sees you wants to stop and talk and ask questions. I will stop and talk to the attractive ladies as long as they like. The down side to this bike is, it takes practice to ride but once you get use to it you will never want to ride anything different. Visibality is different on the low racer you have to get use to it and you have to keep a closer eye on the road. Sand, gravel, mud, wet leaves, ice, water are all several times more likely to wreck you on a low racer than an up right bike. You will need a mirror on left and right side of your helmet. After I do a 5 mile warm up ride I can cruise along on flat level road 22 to 24 mph fairly easy. If I pedal hard I can do 28 mph on flat level road for about 1/4 mile. Down hill is totally awesome it is like a free fall I have to ride the brake to keep from doing 70.

My P-38 type bike is really fun to ride. It is so manoverable it is unreal. Light weight bike only 21 lbs and not quite as low wind resistant as the low racer bike but still very fast bike. Easy to ride and easy to haul in an SUV or on a bike rack. The P-38 is sorta like driving a sport car extremely quick and manoverable.

All recumbents have a disadvantage up hill they are a little bit slower than most upright bikes but on the flats and down hill the recumbents have the advantage.

Last edited by Crash2Much; 12-13-08 at 10:29 PM.
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Old 12-13-08, 08:22 AM
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Originally Posted by Crash2Much View Post
Every bike has its own purpose. I road an upright bike for 50 years. When I was young I could ride 23 mph for an hour no problem. I have been riding recumbents for 3 years. Each recumbent has a different wind resistance. The low racer is the fastest wind resistance is 65% less than an upright bike. I am out of shape have not ridden a bike in 25 years it is a struggle for me to do 12 mph on an upright bike. I have do 15 mph on a Tour Easy and 22 to 24 mph on a low racer.[/URL]
So you're ummm, 95 years old?
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Old 12-13-08, 09:11 AM
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According to info from my Garmin 305, a typical 20 mile trip involves 1000' - 2000' of climbing. 25+% of my distance is climbing. Since I mainly ride loops out from home, there's a net gain of zero, of course.

At what point does the climbing inefficiency of a recumbent offset the speed gains on the flats and downhills?
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Old 12-13-08, 09:40 AM
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Originally Posted by tntyz View Post
According to info from my Garmin 305, a typical 20 mile trip involves 1000' - 2000' of climbing. 25+% of my distance is climbing. Since I mainly ride loops out from home, there's a net gain of zero, of course.

At what point does the climbing inefficiency of a recumbent offset the speed gains on the flats and downhills?
I don't think there is any way to answer your general question without inserting some data.

Depending on the bikes and rider, a particular bent may or may not be slower in climbing than a particular DF. The biggest general uphill speed difference, I think, is that bents run heavier than DF's.

On a loop like yours, I would be faster on my bent than on my DF both uphill and down, but I would also enjoy the breeze as fitter DF riders on lighter bikes went by. <G>
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Old 12-15-08, 08:04 AM
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Originally Posted by wrobertdavis View Post
Your post would have had a lot more credibility if you hadn't shown such an obvious bias through emotional exaggeration in your description. Its BS to talk about a particular bike design causing the rider to miss a pothole so big that it results in flying over the handlebars. That's riding with your head in a dark spot.

Bob
Please be civil on the forums. There is no call for writing things that you would never say to someone's face.
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Old 12-15-08, 08:23 AM
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Originally Posted by pm124 View Post
Please be civil on the forums. There is no call for writing things that you would never say to someone's face.
Noted on the basis of being civil, period. However, I say in writing what I would have no qualms about saying in person. Factual discussion about any viewpoint is fine. Emotional ranting has no value.

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Old 12-15-08, 08:39 AM
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Originally Posted by wrobertdavis View Post
It would be interesting to see how you perform on a current technology road bike. There's a bit of a difference between late 70's and 2008.

Bob
I've only been riding a bent for a couple of years. Before that I had always bought a new higher-end DF every couple of years. I've had Klein, Le Mond, Specialized and Cannondale with the best component groups and wheels I could buy. The Corsa is faster, while also being a lot more comfortable.
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Old 12-15-08, 09:14 AM
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Maybe the OP's friend rides a Sun EZ-Speedster or something. There's no doubt that some designs look like kludges on wheels, with excessive chain management or unduly complicated frames. The remarks that really leave me scratching my head, though, are the ones questioning how a recumbent can be comfortable.
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Old 12-15-08, 09:36 AM
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Originally Posted by SoonerBent View Post
I've only been riding a bent for a couple of years. Before that I had always bought a new higher-end DF every couple of years. I've had Klein, Le Mond, Specialized and Cannondale with the best component groups and wheels I could buy. The Corsa is faster, while also being a lot more comfortable.
I'd love to try one out some day, without a salesman breathing down my neck. I did spend an hour riding an LWB recumbent about 3 years ago. At the time, I was convinced I was not going to be able to ride a conventional road bike because of degeneration in my neck vertebrae. The LWB was a real disappointment to me. While it was comfortable, it felt like I was driving a train, instead of riding a bicycle. I am sure that impression would change a bit after a few hundred miles, but I still think it would be more "cruiser" than "sport". I ended up getting a road bike and have recently upgraded.

For all the talk about speed in trying to compare bikes, that is not in the top criteria for me. I am 60, but still ride with "young" guys. My goal was to be able to ride with them without getting dropped. As long as my conditioning has kept up, I could hang with their 22-24 mph pace lines. But I found myself getting dropped about 35 miles into a 50 mile ride, when they would accelerate away from a stop light. I simply could not accelerate fast enough to get up to speed and remain with the pace line. My most recent upgrade (Cervelo R3) solved that problem. It accelerates significantly easier than any bike I have ever ridden. I also enjoy a bike that handles very well, especially in cornering.

My impression, unbacked by any comparative experience, is that the same rider can go faster on a performance low rider recumbent, but will experience superior acceleration and handling on a performance DF road bike. My priorities are for the latter qualities.

As far as comfort goes, I am all too familiar with the general viewpoint that a road bike is not as comfortable. My experience is that a road bike comfort is very sensitive to good fit and conditioning. If you are lacking on either count, you will suffer. It took me almost 3 years to get the right fit and my conditioning has improved substantially. Fifty mile rides are nothing to me now.

Why do I get the feeling I am writing opinions that have been expressed 100's of time before? I'm sorry for the redundancy, but just felt writing my thoughts.

Bob
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Old 12-15-08, 03:11 PM
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If the only bent you've tried is a LWB you need to try a high racer like a Bacchetta or RANS. The difference will be similar to a full size pick-up and a sports car.

As far as acceleration and handling. A high racer handles like a dream. One of the main things you first notice is how quick they steer. Everyone wobbles like a drunk the first few miles. Once you get used to the quick steering the lower center of gravity + the quick steering lets you take turns like an F-1 race car. Acceleration is a slight problem. Since it takes a 1/2 second longer to get my feet to the pedals from a stop the DF riders get 20 feet or so on me. But I can catch them with no problem. Rolling acceleration is about the same.

Comfort can't be compared. A high racer is a rolling back massage. A fast rolling back massage.
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