Again, not saying it's right or wrong, but this explains why bike racers tend to think of recumbents (if they think of them at all) as bicycle-like machines.

The keyword is application. That is what I was responding to. Speed is what started the recumbent revolution. The late Gardnier Martin is the one that started the thing rolling in CA. when he built the Gold Rush to win the Dupont Prize for breaking the 60mph HPV land record. The Gold Rush is now in the Simthsonian as a preservation of that landmark. From that evolved the Gold Rush Replica by Easy Racers (founded by the the late Gardiner Martin) which is now one of the largest selling bents. It is also one of the fastest production bikes and I think one of the most comfortable touring bikes.

Martin and Easy Racers may have been one of the pioneers, but the whole thing was started by Mochet in 1934 with the Velocar which was subsequently banned by the UCI due to its speed. After wallowing in the ditch for decades, the restart began in '76 by Chet Kyle with the IHPVA. The current speed records have been reset again this year.

Sam Whittingham
Top Speed at 82.819 mph, 133.284 kph
One Hour total 56.295 miles, 90.598 km

Barbara Buatois
Top Speed at 75.458 mph, 121.437 kph
One Hour total 52.208 miles, 84.020 km

:)ensen.

Yeah. What he said.

Actually commercial recumbents even predate the Mochet Velocar. The then hour record was beteen by a Velocar in 1933 with a 2nd tier pro and was part of the reason why they were banned by the UCI.

Reading about the Velocar racing in the thirties was intersting and some things haven't changed. Then as now an aerodynamic recumbent was quicker on the flats and downhills than a regular bike and was slower uphills. A recumbent with small wheels was slower than a regular bike on rough roads.

The speeds set by Sam and Barbara are amazing, but both are very fit and strong riders. If you put me in the same bikes I wouldn't come any where close.

The other problem is that if you enjoy the social aspect of riding in a group and pacelines, it requires much more concentration and is harder on a recumbent.

On a recumbent, I tend to not ride in pacelines because I don't need to draft in order to go fast or to fight a headwind. Recumbent groups tend to be more spread out because of this. Relying on others to do the work is my definition of "cheating." If I want to socialize, I ride next to the other bike. Even on an upright, I find it hard to hold a conversation with someone in front of or behind me.

arent you cheating with your super aero position. just sayin.

also, in pro cycling those "others" are paid to be others. and in recreational cycling, everyone i ride with does their share up front...but when it hurts the most on ascents, it doesnt really matter whos up front, everyone is hurting.

the social aspect of riding in a group and pacelines, it requires much more concentration and is harder on a recumbent.[/QUOTE

WHAT????

Is a sub-20 pound bike cheating?

my bike weights 22lbs...

does that put me in the non cheating category or were you just pointing out that the weight is a factor in what separates a TRUE cyclist from another? i mean, in your opinion is a 15lb carbon bike cheating or does the fact that they average 30mph over 5 hours with 10k ft of climbing, neutralize the cheating factor.

anyway my point is that its not jealousy, if i wanted a bent, i would get one...but i dont.

Yeah. I just don't see the jealousy thing. Given the amount of money most racers pour into the sport, they could afford a recumbent if they wanted one. It's indifference, really.

Getting aero isn't cheating anymore than using an aero position on a TT bike; or as a lesser example, getting down on the drops when fighting a headwind. But our advantage in getting more aero is why we're in a different class for racing purposes. Which gets back to the original question. The upper-level racers recognize that 'bents are in a different class, so I see very little animosity there. They are friendly, sometimes even curious. It's the lower-levels and wannabes that treat 'bent riders like lepers. And of course, when I blow by their little pacelines, ringing my bell and waving, it only makes their attitudes worse. I love that! ;)

ha. thats great you can do that. he said that drafting was cheating. do you think that drafting is cheating? i posed a question. i dont think any of its cheating. only in an Ironman is drafting cheating.

Anytime someone makes fun of my recumbent, I just pull a massive wheelie and speed off.

It is still about the application. A 15# bike might help you climb, but witness the 64# recumbent that Fast Freddy rode to set the 55 miles in one hour record at Nissan.

Actually it's more fun rubbing it in while eating ice cream. They won't admit to it, but people riding uprights on the MUP definitely show envy when they see you licking at a cone while moseying along.

:)ensen.

thats the point of my posts. if your setting or training for land speed records...then thats awesome. otherwise everyone else i see is just chillen. cycling is about getting healthy and in shape and suffering and getting an endorphin rush. i ride every ride to try and be faster and better than the ride before.
if thats how you ride your recumbent then awesome. but they arent for me because i dont want to mosey along.
anyway i dont even belong in this section. you guys have a great time enjoying your bents. peace.

I guess the rules are a bit more tolerant here in Sweden. In August of last year while out on a 45 mile ride, I found myself going the wrong way on a cycle race route. Imagine my shock and delight when a bent bike passed me, number and all. He smiled and waved.

Imagine my even greater surprise and joy when further back in a pack of riders there were no less than three more 'bents, two of them ridden by women, and all riders with numbers.

Maybe it wasn't a significant race so they let them in as tokens of good will or something, but they were definitely in the race. All the DF riders were on high end machines. No clue about the 'bents since I'm not familiar with bent bikes, only trikes.

One does not need a road bike for speed training. That day, I happen to be riding my cargo bent with a small rack load. I stopped to get ice cream and was on my way when the micro-paceline blew by. My other bent is a tilting trike low racer. It's not completely finished yet as I still have to put a 72T ring on it, but already, I'm spinning out the 52 at about 35 kph (20" wheel). When the big ring is finished this 40-something with a gut will spend the occasional Sunday hunting pacelines on some of the back roads around here.

What I'm waiting for is Sam Whittingham to get on on an unfaired low-racer and go further in the hour than the current UCI record. That would finally put paid to the whether or not recumbents are faster. Even better would be for Barbara Buatois to do that too. Seems to me that only when a little girl spanks all these macho men that there will finally be silence.

Recumbent riders are not all looking to join the big tours. That up to the USCF and the UCI and if they want to allow recumbents, then I'm sure Rans or Bacchetta could field a team. Really, though, all we want is for the haters to stop hating. Of course, humans are predictable with the hate, but it sure is nice to dream of a world in which everyone just gets along.

:)ensen.

Probably not jealousy. I know a bunch of cyclists who are interested in bents but probably would never buy one. That's the category I'm in. But we're British, and we're just a little bit different ol' chap.

because of the different speed profiles in headwinds, downhills and uphills between a recumbent and upright. And the fact that you have a whopping great chainring and pedals just behind the rear wheel of an upright when drafting on a recumbent means you have to concentrate much more.

I find it is much less stressfull to ride in a paceline on a normal bike than on a recumbent.

Ya know, this need for some to prove that 'bents are superior machines that have been held down by the man' is why many of us like razzing you hammock jockeys. Who cares what bike set what speed or distance record, or which does what better than the other...we ride what we like to ride. I ain't gonna set no speed records on my wedgie, and you ain't gonna set no speed records on your bent. ;)

Yeah, you SHOULD remind yourself of that...

SP
:recum:

[QUOTE=gnome;9783358]because of the different speed profiles in headwinds, downhills and uphills between a recumbent and upright. And the fact that you have a whopping great chainring and pedals just behind the rear wheel of an upright when drafting on a recumbent means you have to concentrate much more.

I find it is much less stressfull to ride in a paceline on a normal bike than on a recumbent.[/QUOT

The chain ring and pedals on my GRR is in the same place as a DF, between the front and rear wheel. The only time my profile changes is when I tuck my head under the fairing on downhill runs. But if you are doing 35+ mph I do not suggest talking to someone at the same time. There is a lot of road passing under you at that speed and a lot of things are happening pretty fast. I keep both eyes on the road at that speed. I have no trouble 'socializing' while riding next to another recumbent. I find that conversing with others is easier when I am sitting up in a normal position.

You miss the purpose of the my post. its not about trying to get on a tour, or speed training. its pushing yourself to see what your made of.
not sitting on a bent or bike eating ice cream. if you choose to do that on whatever you ride, you will get no respect from me.
just like you wouldnt see me on a beach cruiser. just not my idea of what a ride should be.

again chill out enjoy the scenery yadda yadda yadda, you cant convince me that a bent is cooler than a bicycle. just like i cant convince you that a bicycle is better.

Based on my experience, you have it right. Boy racers do seem to have a need to look down on anything and everything that may seem a bit different or threatening. Except for sad cases of life-long inferiority, men and women get over that problem, ride what they want to ride, and learn to appreciate variety and differences.

Nobody needs convincing of anything... especially me. My fleet includes 3 recumbents, 1 FS mtb and a longtail cargo bike. I ride whatever best suits my needs at that moment. I recently brought home 200 lbs of bagged compost with the longtail. For off-road and the upcoming snow, the MTB comes out. And for speed, one of the trikes. I've been a transportation cyclist for over 25 years and discovered early that to go really fast, a road bike is not the best mode. And yes... I had a Bianchi once. Fast, but not fast enough.

When you say that you won't ride slow and thus won't ever be found on a beach cruiser or bent, my immediate thought is that you have no friends with which to enjoy a nice lazy Sunday ride. There is a particular pleasure at just moseying along, watching the scenery and yakking with other cyclists. Of course, if you're not the type that rides a bike everywhere, then you probably wouldn't understand the particular type of cool that goes with a pink basket on a fixie. Maybe you are even that guy that makes nasty comments about recumbents and low-riders.

:)ensen.

ummmm......a recumbent bicycle is a bicycle