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-   -   Frame material comparison (https://www.bikeforums.net/road-cycling/1001274-frame-material-comparison.html)

qclabrat 04-03-15 07:57 AM


Originally Posted by dr_lha (Post 17686608)
As someone who has written many grant proposals, I can guarantee that "clicks" has never been a metric that has contributed to continued funding! :D

we've been collecting website data for some education grants we're planning for
Not the only metric but helps to tell the big picture
Doesn't everyone like charts and graphs? ;)

dr_lha 04-03-15 08:06 AM


Originally Posted by qclabrat (Post 17686643)
we've been collecting website data for some education grants we're planning for
Not the only metric but helps to tell the big picture
Doesn't everyone like charts and graphs? ;)

Yeah OK! Certainly it you're working in Education and/or Outreach website clicks are an important metric. I know I've put out plenty of press releases on the work I'm doing. Interaction with the public is important.

But as I said, this is an old work, I doubt anyone cares about us looking at it any more!

Campag4life 04-03-15 09:17 AM


Originally Posted by chaadster (Post 17686634)
I've said as much as I can say about the interpretation of the article, and have no interest in repeating what I've stated multiple times already. The fact that you've said more here, in the one post, than was written in the study itself, reaffirms my belief you guys are ascribing more to the study than it was designed to address.

Where issue is being drawn Chaad, is the article does not do justice to the subject in the least. The notion of vibration damping, ride quality and efficiency of energy transfer are being misrepresented in terms of their root cause. Differences being ascribed to materials aren't true. Geometry differences have colored this relationship. It is the relationship between material and geometry and the associated tradeoffs of each that limits combinations that should have been addressed. Why weaker and softer Aluminum ends up being stiffer for example. That is what should be addressed. Aluminum is not a stiffer material than carbon fiber...and yet the bike tested was because of geometry. It is much easier to make a carbon bike stiffer than Al for the same weight. . No meaningful extrapolation of ride quality can be drawn based upon the test description and yet conclusions were drawn which although true of 3 particular bikes, doesn't remotely represent the industry in terms of material characterists.

CliffordK 04-03-15 09:49 AM


Originally Posted by chaadster (Post 17686634)
The fact that you've said more here, in the one post, than was written in the study itself, reaffirms my belief you guys are ascribing more to the study than it was designed to address.

As far as I can tell, we have the slides for a 2004 conference presentation.

Here is the abstract for the article submitted,
Article Abstract

Ahhh... I found the article without images.
Re: Objective effects of bike on performance

One can assume some of the power point images are several of the images from the article.
http://web.mit.edu/2.tha/www/ppt/Bike-ISEA.pdf

dr_lha 04-03-15 10:01 AM

So the published article is a conference proceeding as well, so likely not peer reviewed.

a77impala 04-04-15 06:50 AM

I have had bikes that beat me to death, other bikes with the same frame material that ride like silk. It's not the material but the design, imho.

roadwarrior 04-04-15 08:48 AM


Originally Posted by a77impala (Post 17689261)
I have had bikes that beat me to death, other bikes with the same frame material that ride like silk. It's not the material but the design, imho.

For example not all aluminum is created equal. A CAAD10 due mostly to the alloy in the aluminum is what created the ride quality versus, say, any entry level aluminum frame. So it's a combination, but the alloy change made a big difference between the CAAD9 and 10 in vibration absorption.

rpenmanparker 04-04-15 09:07 AM


Originally Posted by roadwarrior (Post 17689552)
For example not all aluminum is created equal. A CAAD10 due mostly to the alloy in the aluminum is what created the ride quality versus, say, any entry level aluminum frame. So it's a combination, but the alloy change made a big difference between the CAAD9 and 10 in vibration absorption.

Are you sure? Or was it the design differences that the different aluminum alloy made feasible. That is like saying Reynolds 753 is lighter than Reynolds 501. Or that a 501 frame is stiffer than a 753 fame. Yes, but not really because the metals have different density or stiffness. The 753 is stronger and less mass is needed for the same frame integrity, but the two alloys have just about the same density and stiffness. Isn't it similar in aluminum alloys. Strength changes but not so much density and stiffness. For example, 7075 alloy is almost twice as strong (tensile yield) as 6061 alloy, yet it is only 4% stiffer (Young's modulus).

Block944 04-04-15 02:11 PM


Originally Posted by dr_lha (Post 17686635)
FYI looking into this a bit more, it looks like this research is >10 years old (from 2004). I believe that the first author was a MIT grad student at the time, and this is I think a Masters Thesis work.

Duh?

You think mit is coming out with their own bike line and trying to sway customers.. You dumb dumbs.

dr_lha 04-04-15 02:25 PM


Originally Posted by Block944 (Post 17690227)
Duh?

You think mit is coming out with their own bike line and trying to sway customers.. You dumb dumbs.

No I don't think that. You seem to have some basic issues with English comprehension. MIT grad? ;)

Block944 04-04-15 03:53 PM


Originally Posted by dr_lha (Post 17690253)
No I don't think that. You seem to have some basic issues with English comprehension. MIT grad? ;)

Ok mr. Nobody.

dr_lha 04-04-15 04:05 PM


Originally Posted by Block944 (Post 17690407)
Ok mr. Nobody.

:lol:


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