cale

That's not true, I have a motorcycle and I've ridden my neighbor's bike.My point was, self adjusting/self centering features, these are refinements of the basic principle of a piston and two pads. Hydro is just another way to get the job done. As far as pad wear goes, I wrote what I think. That being responsible for the condition of your pads and rotors is part of riding.

bt

they don't self center.

nhluhr

BB7s don't self-center or compensate themselves at all. Only one pad moves. That means to get reasonable lever action without rubbing you have to adjust the caliper so the rotor is super close to the non-moving pad and as your pads wear you have to turn both adjusters in a click at a time. This isn't awesome when you're in the middle of a huge descent and you realize your pads have (finally) worn enough that you have to stop and adjust the pads to be able to keep riding.

I believe by "self-center" what is meant is that both pads actuate in response to lever pull. Certainly you still have to properly position any caliper, regardless of design.

cale

You have a livid and vivid imagination! I'll say that. I w̶r̶o̶t̶e̶ implied that BB7s don't self-center or compensate, what are you nagging me about that point for! LOL

But you haven't ridden BB7's if you're maintaining that they can't be properly adjusted. That's just idle gossip.

BTW I absolutely loved your imagery of an annoyed me cursing my luck as I have to twist a knob or two. I'll treasure that.

nhluhr

I'm guessing English is your second language.

cale

You have one guess left.

Null66

OP asked what would work. I'm was in his weight range for the first 3200 miles or so, now down to about 240 + bike, pack, and water...
Something like 5,838.35 miles SAME STOCK PADS!... Yeah they could be replaced, but they also have a lot of life in them... Why worry, there's a spare in the pack as there has been for again 5,838.35 miles...
On the same damn frame as OP, (except for size, and not likely but possible he might have 26'')...

Even though I set and forget, cable adjuster (mine's on cross brakes) have been more than sufficient during a ride, or rather many rides.

Where the F@#$ do you ride that you wear out a pad on a hill?
Have you actually DONE IT? What's your and the ride particulars?

Most of this is just internet BS, not real world.


Regardless, BB7's will do the job, very effectively with minimal hassle. Mine were $70 new as tear offs. But then that builder builds for racers, and other extreme sports so the few hundred extra $ on the bike was a rounding error...


SO direct real world experience with very close rider characteristics... OR internet BS.

Psimet2001 

...and you haven't ridden hydraulic.

I have ridden both. For many months on hydraulic and a couple of years on the BB7's. Hydraulic are so much better it's not even funny. It's not even close. The OP was asking which he should buy and stated he could buy either. All you've done is try to tell everyone that BB7's are the best because that's what you ride.

OP - once again - if you're choosing between the 2 - go hydraulic. You'll never second guess that choice.

Psimet2001 

Real world experience - in my case with extensive use of BB7's. Are you asking when have the pads worn enough to no longer provide braking performance? In 2012 and 2013 in 2-3 key races they failed within the span of 1 lap. All in horrible conditions - the conditions in which disc brakes should be excelling in.

Null66

What sort of pads and race?

Only time I've heard of such stuff off road in mud...

Yeah, I've taken my DT off road, but would not on technical terrain and the BB is low...

cale

Don't be silly, I never said they were the best. I never said I preferred my BB7s and if you'd bothered to read the earlier posts, I was supportive of the OP buying the Shimano hydro components. Not that any of that is of interest to you as you steady yourself for another drawn out skirmish with the computer. Let me save you the bother. You're right. You win. You are far superior. Your brain is extraordinary.

The only question is why does your superiority let you make up stuff? I wouldn't think it necessary.

Louder

Lots of good advice - many thanks. For me, I don't mind paying more up front to get the right brakes. I figure that the extra cost amortized over the life of the bike makes in negligible. I should also state that I am looking to do longer rides and I live in San Francisco, in the city, so I would be biking out of the city for the longer rides. This would lead me over the Golden Gate bridge and a few good hills. My main concern is stopping power as I am really not a high speed guy, I tend to be overly cautious on the bike and want to be able to slow down when needed. I find the brakes on my commuter are fine for the ride to and from work, but I really need to lean on them. The new Shimano flat mounts don't look like they will be released till July and I am looking to make a bike purchase in the next two weeks.

nhluhr

Shimano has a number of things going for their design that makes them preferable over others in the market. First of all, since you're riding in San Francisco where they have real hills and you've got some concerns about braking control, it's not just stopping power you're concerned with. You also need to make sure the brakes don't overheat because you can first of all get pad fade (brake pads don't stop well when overheated) and you can get boiling fluid (vapor in your brake line is compressible and therefore your brakes just don't clamp down as hard as they should, just when you need it most). Shimano addresses all this by at least four things:

1) Freeza Rotors
2) Finned pads
3) Mineral Oil
4) Tuned fluid housing

#1 ) First and foremost, they understand that disc brakes have two primary challenges. First being stopping power (as in, the max brake torque, like when you need to stop fast and suddenly) and second being heat dissipation (as in, being able to stop more for longer, like on a big descent with lots of curves). You need to understand that steel (used in brake rotors) isn't a great heat conductor so the heat you generate during braking tends to move slowly to the rest of the metal in your rotor, minimizing the rate at which it can dissipate. They have plenty of material describing the details but basically they suggest that for an average rider, you can get the heat dissipation you need with either a standard "ice tech" steel-alu-steel laminated rotor in 160mm or the better "Freeza" rotor in 140mm. The Freeza rotor actually extends the standard Ice-Tech rotor's aluminum laminate layer into heat-sink surface area so they constantly conduct and dissipate far more heat than anything on the market for its size. Thing is, the 160 will have a significant boost to stopping power to go along with the heat dissipation. In your case, since you've said you're above average, you want both stopping power AND heat dissipation. For you, a 160mm Freeza rotor would be more appropriate, with a 180mm Freeza being even better if the frame you're looking at can handle it (at least in the front, and a 160 Freeza in the back). The catch is that Freeza rotors only fit centerlock hubs so make that part of your equation. Freeza rotors cost about $10 more than non-Freeza versions.

#2 ) Shimano also addresses the concern of pad fade and boiling hydraulic fluid by using their finned pads. Specifically, their upper end brake pads have a little aluminum heatsink that draws heat from the pad itself and lets it dissipate before being conducted into the brake fluid through the pad's contact with the piston. They also put a layer of material between the piston and backing plate of the pad so that it doesn't conduct as much heat to begin with.

#3 ) They further address the issue of fluid boiling by using mineral oil which isn't hydrophilic like DOT fluid. The high boiling point of mineral oil doesn't degrade over time as the hydrophilic fluids always do (and it doesn't matter if the system is sealed - solid state diffusion of moisture happens through rubber seals). This is minor but it basically affects how well the brake handles heat down the road without maintenance.

#4 ) Shimano realize that with boosts to braking power you may want to tune modulation so they offer basically two types of hydraulic housing. One of them is designed to stretch more and therefore make the brake feel less on/off, if that is a concern using the larger diameter rotors, or for example with road tires that might not have the overhead in grip to deal with that punchier braking feel. The stretchier more modulatable BH59 housing is their standard for road use but if you want a snappier feel, you can swap to the stiffer BH90 housing.

Louder

I just placed my bike order and went with the Shimano brakes and 160mm rotors. Many thanks for all the input! Really looking forward to getting the bike.

Louder

And here she is! I have to say, the brake are phenomenal!