mooder

Hey all,

I am hesitating between the bdop cx-rayx kits at 300$ USD & the BHS kit. It seems to me the bdop kit has more value (cheaper). However, I've read that the hubs used (291/482 novatec) are not doing well in wet condition. The bearing should be changed because they are not well sealed and users reported they felt resistance in the bearing after <1000 miles ridden.
I need light training wheels (currently own R501s) so pretty much every thing is an upgrade. bdop also offer bearings so I could grab some but at the added cost of 40$USD.

If I add the total cost:
bdop (sapim race spokes): 280$ ~1600g
bdop (cx-rays): 340$ ~ 1600g
BHS (pacenti - including 45$ shipping): 445$ ~ 1450g

What do you guys think?

rpenmanparker 

Go with the BHS XC 279 Kinlins, not the Pacentis. You will save money and lose nothing in quality. That is what I would do. Or get the BDOp kit with Laser spokes instead of race. The price should be about the same, but at lower weight. The Lasers are the same spokes as the CX-Rays but without being flattened into the aero blade shape.

mooder

Thanks for your answer. Concerning the bearings, would you buy them aswell?

ravenmore

2nd the Kinlin rims - great rims. I need to check out BHS too and I'd like to build another set of Formula/Kinlin wheels.

rpenmanparker 

No, not immediately. They are readily available. You will go a long time on the OEM bearings. Just wait until you need them. You may be surprised how long that takes. Definitely stay with steel, though, stainless preferably. Don't fall for ceramic. It is BS.

BoSoxYacht

I haven't seen these complaints about the Novatec bearings that BDop uses. IIRC Novatec allows the buyer to spec different grades of bearing, and most use the cheapest ones available, but BDop uses a higher grade bearing.

I have a set of Bdop wheels I built in late February, and after 2000 miles the bearings still feel as smooth as new.

rpenmanparker 

Formula hubs are good, but I don't think they have anything over the BHS hubs. There is a lot of variety in the BHS product line including the very desirable 8:16 and 9:18 drilled rear hubs. Those are sweet.

therhodeo

Can you explain how the Kinlins are equal to the Pacentis? Thats the first time I've heard that.

BoSoxYacht

I like the Novatec hubs better than BHS hubs. The freehub body won't get chewed up over time, and the geometry is far better so triplet lacing is unnecessary.

rpenmanparker 

Formula hubs are good, but I don't think they have anything over the BHS hubs. There is a lot of variety in the BHS product line including the very desirable 8:16 and 9:18 drilled rear hubs. Those are sweet.

rpenmanparker 

What would not be equal about them? What is so great about Pacentis? They are a smidgen lighter but not quite as deep as the Kinlins. Kinlins are known for easy build up since they arrive quite round and flat. The niobium-aluminum alloy used by Kinlin is well regarded for its strength. They are similar aluminum rims. Riding down the road, on well-built wheels from either brand, what possible difference are you going to observe?

mooder

I don't see the option to get the sapim laser. I only see either race or cx-ray?

rpenmanparker 

And sure, this is where personal preference and personal situation come into play. AFAIK the Novatecs are excellent. Since I prefer the triplet lacing in any case, I don't mind the BHS geometry. Since I use SRAM Red cassettes which don't chew up freehub bodies, I don't need them to be tougher. I do see how all that is my special case.

But regarding the geometry, I just did some calculations and got ratios of the NDS/DS for a couple of the BHS hubs to be 2.16 and 2.22 and two Novatecs from BDOP at 2.17 and 2.18 which is actually a better result for one of the BHS hubs. There is a difference sure, but is very small, 1-2%. Does that really matter all that much? And the spoke circle diameter ratio for NDS/DS for the BHS hub is a lot smaller than the ratio for the Novatec. I haven't done the tension ratio calculations, but I would be surprised if they were much different.

GuitarBob

At least so far as what I have read (at Fairwheel?), when these have been compared directly, the Pacentis were classified as a higher quality rim.

dr_lha

IMHO they are better quality and lighter rims. But the argument as to whether you will feel this when you're riding your bike is a valid question to ask.

rpenmanparker 

Too bad.

therhodeo

Same. I've read it other places as well because I hadn't read that comparison until just now. Is the Kinlin welded?

rpenmanparker 

What does that mean? Quality is the extent to which a product meets your requirements and expectations. Without knowing those characteristics, a comparison is meaningless. The Pacentis have some different characteristics, but are those important to the experience you are looking for?

Also I can't find anything on the Fairwheel site comparing the two brands with regard to ride quality, durability, easy of building up, etc. A link to that would be helpful.

rpenmanparker 

No it is pinned, and comes as flat and round as any rim I have ever worked with, better than most.

mooder

Alright so the sapim race or the CX-rays? Hard to decide. The CX-rays seem to look better but won't contribute much to the performance of the wheelset. So far the only difference I heard of was the better absorption of shocks by the spokes. Have anyone tried both? Did they feel a difference?
I believe I should just get the cheapest now and save for custom carbon wheel.

dtrain

BHS looks to be clearing out their stock of Pacenti's. So the price difference now is minimal (if they still have what you need). They are lighter, wider, and the finish is outstanding. But I don't know that the Pacenti's are enough nicer to justify the full MSRP difference.

One thing I haven't seen mentioned: the Pacenti's are more tubeless ready. Nice benefit if you think you might head that direction. If you're quite sure you never would, the additional pain of mounting tires might be a negative.

rpenmanparker 

BHS has the Lasers, but that won't help if you have decided on a BDop kit. I am absolutely confirmed in the preference for the lightest possible spokes. They are more durable even though they give up a little stiffness. I would have to go with the CX-Rays.

GuitarBob

What does quality mean? Come on now, don't be silly. The folks at Fairwheel contrasted the rims and made a statement. If that doesn't matter to you, that's just fine with me.

dtrain

I thought rp was quite the WW when it comes to wheels? Each Pacenti is 45-50 grams lighter...seems that's more than a 'smidgen'?

rpenmanparker 

Don't get pissy. Most people don't understand what quality means. I don't consider a welded seam important. Therefore a welded seam isn't higher quality than a pinned seam as far as I am concerned. If you haven't studied quality management, this will be gibberish to you.

But you haven't shown me the Fairwheel discussion. I don't see it on their website. Direct me to it please. But to be fair you have to accept that Fairwheel keeps Pacentis in their line to occupy the higher price point and Kinlins to occupy the lower price point. They won't say anything that upsets that apple cart. Just seeing that the Fairwheel folks call themselves a boutique says quite a lot about this whole topic. Boutique, indeed! What BS.