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Barry Bonds the Cyclist

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Barry Bonds the Cyclist

Old 05-07-15, 12:55 PM
  #76  
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Originally Posted by Lazyass View Post
Odd reply.



Yes. And I have heard of Major Taylor as well. I posted it above
I take it back. You are very multicultural. Seriously...Off the top of my head I can think of at least two black cycling clubs and see black cyclists every day.

Somewhere at home I think I still have a copy of a great biography of Major Taylor I once read. I will give you the title if I can find it.
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Old 05-07-15, 01:03 PM
  #77  
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Originally Posted by indyfabz View Post
You should get out more.

And did you never hear of Nelson Vails: Nelson Vails - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Originally Posted by Lazyass View Post
Odd reply.



Yes. And I have heard of Major Taylor as well. I posted it above

Lazyass didn't say there were NO black cyclists. He said he doesn't see any on group rides. I posted earlier, some situations may differ and I get that, but my experience is the same as his. Most of the group rides I have done in the last three years, I was the only black cyclist there. When I do big charity rides where hundreds or even thousands are in attendance then yes, I see others but on LBS group rides, and weekly meet ups, no.
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Old 05-07-15, 01:56 PM
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How many 5 foot 6 inch 140 lb pasty white guys do you see in the NBA ...... ?

Stereotypes how does that work ?
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Old 05-07-15, 02:01 PM
  #79  
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Originally Posted by TrojanHorse View Post
I'm not sure it was designed to explain sarcasm, although it's certainly dripping with it.
It wasn't!!

When you say something that's the opposite of reality, for rhetorical effect, like "I could care less" when you really couldn't, that's sarcasm.

Except when the person you're talking to doesn't understand, then it's just something that fell into the sarchasm.

It's not really the case that millions of people have no idea whether they care or not about anything, or can't speak their native language; they're being sarcastic!
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Old 05-07-15, 02:12 PM
  #80  
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Originally Posted by eyewannabike View Post
I always get a chuckle out of people complaining about modern baseball players. The PED use wasn't always for batting records. They were and are still commonly used for injuries. It wasn't like Bonds had no game. He likely has the best, most compact swing in the history of baseball.

People do also give a lot of passes to historical figures. Babe Ruth has admitted to it. Hank Aaron's home run percentage started to increase the older he got. That's certainly not normal and suggests that he might have been experimenting.

Does This Prove That Hank Aaron Was Juicing? « CBS Detroit

Then you have other players like Ty Cobb. Aside from being an avid racist, he would sharpen his spikes on use them on anyone trying to stop him from stealing a base. he also kicked the hell out of a guy who had no hands, probably a war vet.

Bonds. He's not so bad when you put things in context.
Aaron's increasing HR percentage was a function of playing the latter part of his career in ATL Fulton County Stadium, a known launching pad along the lines of Coors Field. His splits used to be about 27 HRs at home, and 15 on the road in a typical season during his years playing in ATL. Similarly, Roger Maris took advantage of the short Right Field porch in the old Yankee Stadium that was tailor-made for his lefty pull swing, for what were, by far, his two biggest HR years, including the 61 HR season.

And yes, Ty Cobb is probably the most despicable individual in the Baseball HOF.
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Old 05-07-15, 02:13 PM
  #81  
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Originally Posted by seymour1910 View Post
Lazyass didn't say there were NO black cyclists.
I never said he said that.
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Old 05-07-15, 02:21 PM
  #82  
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Originally Posted by Lazyass View Post
This makes me think. I'm not sure I ever went on group ride that had a black cyclist. Maybe some charity rides, I don't know. I did used to see a black guy who was a track racer. His thighs were like 10 feet in diameter. Tree trunks.
Originally Posted by seymour1910 View Post
I would say this is accurate. I'm sure some situations may or may not be different, but my experience is the same. I was into body building before cycling so I was pretty big when I got started. Finding jersey's was a pain. I actually used a couple sleeveless jersey's because the others were uncomfortable. I didn't make it a point to see who the groups were made up of, but I often noticed I was the only black cyclist in all the group rides I did.

I acutually showed up for a early saturday morning ride once, when I rolled up everyone just stopped what they were doing. I introduced myself and asked if it was okay to ride with them. The ride leader said yes, then instructed me on the route and how they do things. All was good then right before we started the ride one guy leaned in and said "we don't usually see any of you guy's out here". He apologized after he said it, but I didn't take offense at all. I think he was just being honest.
It's obvious that neither one of you live anywhere near me.
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Old 05-07-15, 02:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Campag4life View Post
Its always complicated. I am no lover of Lance either. And yes, he used his cancer foundation as a shield to bolster his status but it still has/had undeniable benefit. What has superstar Bonds done for the public with the countless millions he has made? My point about him. His support of women's cycling is nebulous compared to what he could have accomplished. I would say more of the greats than not give back at some level.
But it is hard to find a hero today and any sort of moral compass coinciding with pure athletic talent is incidental. Lets take Tom Brady. Brady is a 'freak' about ball pressure. Off the chart fanatical. His lies in front of the public about not knowing anything about it are the same lies we have heard from many sports celebrities about performance enhancing drugs...a long list. All top quarterbacks have a preference on ball pressure btw. Some like the ball a bit over pressurized. The superbowl was a blow out and the last half was played with correct ball pressure but it still comes down to cheating and implications for games in the regular season and playoffs. Brady gets a pass forgive the pun because he is a lot nicer guy publically than Bonds ever was and because of his hot wife.
How do you know he hasn't?
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Old 05-07-15, 02:41 PM
  #84  
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Originally Posted by Campag4life View Post
rms,
You seem knowledgeable about baseball and performance enhancing drugs.
What is your opinion on Bonds?
I'm 38 and really got into baseball a few years before Bonds' rookie year so I remember him through every stage of his career. Before he got jacked, he was one of the best all around players I have ever seen. He was one of the few 5 tool players in history (hitting for avg, hitting for power, speed, defense and throwing arm). He was also one of the fiercest competitors I've seen in any sport. Post "jacked" he lost his speed and mobility but was still one of the best hitters I have ever seen. When he was locked in (regardless of roids), you couldn't even pitch to him because he would only swing at "his pitch" and when you threw "his pitch" it was an automatic HR. Yes we all know he was enhanced, but it was still fun to watch as a fan...just like Lance was still fun to watch as American cyclist fans even though we all know something was up. But Bonds was also a major dick just like Lance, Michael Jordan, Bill Belicheck and lots of other people that are much better at what they do then everyone else
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Old 05-07-15, 02:43 PM
  #85  
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I'm wondering what his bar drop and set back are!

Sad that women's teams are so under-funded, glad that he's helping.
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Old 05-07-15, 02:45 PM
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Originally Posted by D1andonlyDman View Post
The fact that you even suggest that Jeter and Griffey may have used PEDs is emblematic of the harm that folks like Bonds and ARod and Clemens did to baseball.

Most people who's eyes were open realized that Lance was doping. A more salient question in cycling at that time was, was there anyone who was a legitimate threat to win the major endurance races who WASN'T doping?
That is simply naivety. Jeter was an "ironman". How did he stay healthy and play into his 40's at a high level? Not saying he did use any PED but I would not be shocked. I am a Red Sox fan and I wouldn't be surprised to find out Pedro Martinez did. He was skinny, wirery guy that that doesn't fit the stereotype yet he had a 7 year stretch where he was better than any pitcher in the entire history of the sport other than maybe Sandy Koufax's prime and Pedro did things that he just shoudln't have been able to do with his physical size but yet he did them.
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Old 05-07-15, 02:50 PM
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Originally Posted by indyfabz View Post
I take it back. You are very multicultural. Seriously...Off the top of my head I can think of at least two black cycling clubs and see black cyclists every day.

Somewhere at home I think I still have a copy of a great biography of Major Taylor I once read. I will give you the title if I can find it.
What is your problem with what I've said in this thread, exactly? I'm scratching my head over what has made you want to post your snooty replies.
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Old 05-07-15, 03:00 PM
  #88  
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Originally Posted by rms13 View Post
That is simply naivety. Jeter was an "ironman". How did he stay healthy and play into his 40's at a high level? Not saying he did use any PED but I would not be shocked. I am a Red Sox fan and I wouldn't be surprised to find out Pedro Martinez did. He was skinny, wirery guy that that doesn't fit the stereotype yet he had a 7 year stretch where he was better than any pitcher in the entire history of the sport other than maybe Sandy Koufax's prime and Pedro did things that he just shoudln't have been able to do with his physical size but yet he did them.
Jeter really did NOT play at a high level into his 40s. Jeter was only a durable player, or "iron man" as you put it, until 2010, in 2011 his ability fell off a cliff, until he basically shortened his swing and gave up any power he had, for the last month of 2011, and 2012, when he had 214 hits, nearly all of them singles. After he broke his ankle in the playoffs in 2012, Jeter missed nearly the entire 2013 season with multiple injuries. And after he came back, for his final year, he was a far diminished player. Jeter had exactly 1 good season plus 1 good month out of his last 4 years, and that involved completely revamping his swing and becoming strictly a singles hitter in that year plus a month of productive play. Jeter's decline in 2011, then his becoming strictly a singles hitter in 2012, followed by his struggles to come back from his injury in the 2012 postseason, which wiped out his entire 2013 season and left him a shadow of his former ability in 2014 were exactly the sort of things that PEDs would have allowed him to overcome had he used them.

As for Pedro, he was NOT the only great pitcher of that body type. Ron Guidry was the same exact type of pitcher, only Pedro was better and more consistent for longer.

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Old 05-07-15, 03:13 PM
  #89  
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Originally Posted by rms13 View Post
Baseball had no policy against PED when he was playing. How did he cheat?
Steroids were on MLB's banned list since 1991 - most of his career. Testing didn't start til 2003. Sounds like cheating to me
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Old 05-07-15, 03:24 PM
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Originally Posted by dbf73 View Post
Steroids were on MLB's banned list since 1991 - most of his career. Testing didn't start til 2003. Sounds like cheating to me
Banned but not tested and HGH not added till 2013. And what most people consider "steroids" is a grey area. There are a lot of things like HGH and HCG that give a similar effect as anabolic steroids that were not banned. "Andro" which was famously found in Mark McGwire's locker during a post game interview was perfectly legal (sold over the counter at GNC) and legal in baseball at the time but is now illegal in the sport and to the general public and because of it's anabolic effects. The most usefull "steroid" for an athlete is pure testosterone and any althelete or private citizen can get that by prescription or go to shady "anti aging" clinic and get it "legally". That is a grey area that has come up in MMA/UFC world where certain fighters get testosterone shots for "hormone deficiencies" aka getting old and they are allowed to get a pass. Baseball does the same thing. Some players are allowed to take adderaol with dr orders but if you are not under a dr care, that is considered a PED. My point is that the whole world of PED/athletic supplements is a ridiculous thing to get hung up on. It's science and progress and it won't stop.
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Old 05-08-15, 04:49 AM
  #91  
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In case people forgot to read the artcle:

"BONDS IS RIGHT to duck out of the team photo in one sense. He didn't build this team, and he doesn't coach or train it. Cranmer, a 49-year-old British expatriate, former mountain bike competitor and longtime team manager, runs the business end of Twenty16. Holden, 44, directs the riders on the road. The team has a strong roster and an ambitious agenda this season, with athletes racing on the junior and senior levels in road cycling, and others competing in track, cyclocross and Paralympic events.But Bonds is part of the big picture now, acknowledged with a simple uppercase B on the team's apparel. Cranmer wanted to do something more -- a baseball patch with his uniform number, maybe. He resisted. She slipped the initial onto the team's jerseys and jackets without permission.
According to public documents and records provided by Twenty16, Bonds has donated $104,800 to the team -- roughly half of that through the Bonds Family Foundation -- and raised $96,500 from friends and associates, including Will Chang and Trina Dean, members of the San Francisco Giants' ownership group. Cranmer's management company, Tam Cycling Inc., has 501(c)(3) status, and the team's entire 2015 budget is projected to be under half a million dollars."


He's not doing this to draw attention to himself. He's just an avid cyclist putting some of his money towards his new hobby. Dating the coach probably has something to do with it, too.

A good deal of the article describes women's cycling and how poor it is compared to the men's side.

Since I doubt Barry wants to go to jail, he's not going to talk about PEDs in his career for several more years, if ever. Just like a lot of former cyclists didn't talk until the statute of limitations had run out.
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Old 05-08-15, 06:41 AM
  #92  
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Originally Posted by bbattle View Post
In case people forgot to read the artcle:

" Cranmer wanted to do something more -- a baseball patch with his uniform number, maybe. He resisted. She slipped the initial onto the team's jerseys and jackets without permission. "


He's not doing this to draw attention to himself. He's just an avid cyclist putting some of his money towards his new hobby.
Correct.

Until now I've resisted adding much substance to this thread because I hate wasting my time - the whiners are gonna whine and the haters are gonna hate, regardless of what the facts are. But for the benefit of those of you interested in substance - a good friend of mine is related to Bobby Bonilla, an ex-teamate and close friend of Barry's. So I know lots of personal Barry Bonds stories, and I can state as a fact that Barry has been doing this kind of charitable community work for his whole career ... quietly, and without fanfare or public attention, because that's the kind of guy he is and has always been. Some of you people would twist things around to demonize mother Theresa and Gandhi if it served your own twisted agenda and got you the attention you desperately seek. It's just noise from inconsequential people.
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Old 05-08-15, 07:59 AM
  #93  
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Good article! Folks don't deserve second chances? There're folks in this forum that ate, no execise, ate some more and still no exercise and became MORBID OBESE. Health problems, embarrassment and more. We've chosen to lose weight and get healthy...how many chances will or has it taken? To say no one deserves a 2nd chance is JUDGING...JUDGE NOT! LOOK IN THE MIRROR! LOOK AT YOUR OWN LIFE HISTORY AND SEE HOW MANY 2ND, 3RD, 4TH++++ CHANCES YOU'VE BEEN GIVEN! NO ONE'S PERFECT!!
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Old 05-08-15, 08:14 AM
  #94  
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Originally Posted by CNC2204 View Post




How many 5 foot 6 inch 140 lb pasty white guys do you see in the NBA ...... ?

Stereotypes how does that work ?
If this guy is 5 foot 6" inches tall, there's no way he's anything near 140 lbs. More like 120-125. After my cross-the-U.S. ride in 1980, I looked like that, and I was 5 ft. 7.5 inches, and weighed 119, having dropped 22 pounds on the trip.
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Old 05-08-15, 05:42 PM
  #95  
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Originally Posted by D1andonlyDman View Post
Not hatred - complete apathy. If Barry Bonds had played his entire career clean, and ended up with the 550-600 HRs that he probably would have, I would be the first to acknowledge that he was one of the dozen greatest players that ever lived. But he, like ARod, has tainted himself and the game itself.

I don't HATE Bonds. I simply don't believe he is any more worthy of my attention than ARod or Rafeal Palmiero was. I'd much rather watch the likes of Derek Jeter hitting singles and doubles, and Ken Griffey Jr, who was better than Bonds when both of them were clean, and who's body broke down when he got old, the way normal, non-juiced players did back in the day.
Don't forget Mark McGwire, the BIG juicer, who simply got away with saying "I'm not here to talk about the past..." and was able to stick around baseball as a coach for the Cardinals after a relatively short penitence period. Remember when him and Sosa went on that home run spree, and the nation had to be healed, blah, blah, blah? How incredibly cool was to have a guy like McGwire break Roger Maris' record... I remember a chubby black dude who was a hitting machine himself (Tony Gwynn) talk about how Bonds had suddenly decided to "hit a lot of home runs" that year. I think, as good as Bonds was, that not getting the recognition that he felt he deserved while all those juicers were running the show, finally giving in to temptation... Yeah he lied about his use, but as mentioned, steroids weren't banned at the time in baseball, so he technically didn't cheat. Bonds was an easy target to hate because he wasn't a media darling.

What Bonds and many others did (remember now how right Canseco the whistleblower was?) is exactly what Richard Sherman (Seahawks) said about Tom Brady and the Patriots... they weighted the rewards against the risks and said "screw it", the rewards far outweight the risks... Well, they (the Patriots) didn't get fined, did they? And they ended up winning the SB, didn't they. Now they'll probably get a slap on the wrist, nothing that Brady can't fix with a smile.

I'm glad some of you aren't God or else we'd all be totally screwed without a chance at redemption ever! Move on and let the man try to do something good. If not, why in h*ll don't you all support that women's cycling team with your own dollars? I'm sure they'd appreciate it.
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Old 05-08-15, 07:04 PM
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If you do nothing wrong you have nothing to worry about.

Cheating is cheating and the wrong thing to do.

Its certainly illegal now.

Legal technicalities are what Laywers use to get people off.

I have hard enough time accepting the fact that legit ball players of any type get paid hundreds of millions to play a game.

Don't pee on my leg and tell me its raining.
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Old 05-08-15, 07:53 PM
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Originally Posted by CNC2204 View Post
I have hard enough time accepting the fact that legit ball players of any type get paid hundreds of millions to play a game.
Look at the full stadiums... there's your answer. The same holds true for most major sports.

Do you think "enhancing substances" use started in the 90's? Do some research.

Cheating is cheating when you define it. Otherwise you're assuming that all people have the same moral compass, and that is simply not true, and has never been true. I'm not stating a case for or against it, but since the beginning of time everyone has been looking for an "advantage". Kingdoms rise and kingdoms fall pretty much on that fact alone. Corporations "compete" on that principle. When you go on a ride and use anything other than water and natural food you are also looking for an advantage.

Do you think cycling is "clean" now? That's not rain what's running down your leg...
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Old 05-09-15, 04:12 PM
  #98  
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Originally Posted by rms13 View Post
Glad he's doing something positive with his life
Loved the use of the word "positive" in light of PEDs, intended or not.
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Old 05-16-15, 11:54 PM
  #99  
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Originally Posted by rms13 View Post
I'm 38 and really got into baseball a few years before Bonds' rookie year so I remember him through every stage of his career. Before he got jacked, he was one of the best all around players I have ever seen. He was one of the few 5 tool players in history (hitting for avg, hitting for power, speed, defense and throwing arm).
Bonds never had a good arm. That's why he played left field.
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Old 05-17-15, 12:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Campag4life View Post
BillyD,
How do you feel about Bonds? Do you feel he should be given a pass? Ruling body of baseball doesn't feel that way so curious if you feel he should be in the hall of fame? One of the most prolific home run hitters of all time. End justify the means?
If I was perfect I would "probably" be throwing stones.

I'm human and have made some poor decisions that I wish I could take back.

I'm glad Bonds is doing something worthwhile.

Good for him and cycling.

Manny
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