khuon

For those of you who ride both roads and paths, have you noticed that your average speed seems higher on the roads? I've been sort of monitoring this phenomenon for a while now and I notice a 2-3 MPH drop when I'm on a path as compared to when I'm on the road. This seems odd because many of the paths around here are fairly flat and the roads have some hills. Disregarding the 15MPH speed limit and even on very sparsely populated days my average speed on a bikepath is somewhere around 18MPH whereas on the road it's somewhere between 20 and 22 or even higher if the roads are flat. And yes, there's the issue of peds and slow cyclists on paths but even on those days where I encounter absolutely no one, my average seems lower. I wonder if it has to do with the surface grade differences. Maybe paths use a softer surface thus there's more rolling resistance.

clfjmpr44

I also cycle paths as well as roads, the one thing you might be overlooking with the slower average on paths is road crossings. The MUPs I use have a number of bridges and underpaths, but there are also a fair amount of road crossings, where I either have to slow or stop. Just a thought.
A

1955

I can ride from the beach to Anaheim Hills without stopping (35 miles each way...about) on the bike trail here in Santa Ana. Of course in the summer it gets worse with all the slow traffic, but the roads are worse, you can't get any rhythm going at al with stop lights every block and tons of cars and trucks. As bad as the bike trail can be, it's still better than the road.

khuon

That's a thought although the crossings actually seem to take less time than stopping/slowing for a light. My benchmark path is 10 miles long and has only one crossing although there are several underpasses and a bridge. There's a road that parallels this path most of the way... it has as many lights as the path has crossings and underpasses and it has hills (the path follows a slough in the valley and the road follows along the ridge). I used that road to compare my times.

my58vw

I would definitly agree. I use the beach trail from Greenriver to the beach (30 miles each way). While it is fairly flat (with some nice underpasses spinting places) assuming no headwind (big assumption) I go about the same speed as the road). Actually with the headwind I still get about the same average, just one way I am doing about 25+ MPH and one way 15 MPH...

khuon

I'm not trying to turn this into a path vs. road debate in the traditional sense. I'm just wondering what might be causing the speed differences.

my58vw

People, slow riders, crossing, pedestrians, debris...

clfjmpr44

Good point Khuon, roads have stops too. Lateness affecting thought process

1955

My response should have been I can't imagine the roads being faster but I live in the burbs of Socal. Maybe because you're always going with traffic (I'm assuming here) and the cars are sucking you along?

khuon

Another thing I hadn't thought of is that maybe the paths just aren't built for higher speeds in that they sometimes have sharper curves. And while I've taken the paths when there's no traffic on them at all, I'm not going to count on it so I try and hold my line to the right half. I might also be subconsciously slowing down coming through blind corners which means my speed negotiating some of the turns might be slower than if I were on a road which was designed for higher speed travel and there's little possibility of oncoming traffic crossing over into my direction of travel.

my58vw

Most "bike trails" around our area have corners that are marked "slow" for these circumstances... oh well doesn't slow mean, less than 30 MPH

Steelrider

Boy, around here the MUP's are filled with joggers, runners, walkers, skaters, families and pets. I wouldn't go over 15mph for fear I'd kill someone else and/or myself and the odd wild animal. There aren't any non-road trails where I'd even be remotely comfortable approaching road speeds of 20-30mph.

Hipcycler

This is why my average speed is always a bit off.
Roads=lots of stop and go for me on my regular route.
MUP=lots of possible hazard so slower.

Every once in a while I truck the bike to another part of town...more rural...ride with a buddy or maybe two....with less stopping and that then gives me an indication of where my average speed is at.

However, although it is always higher for these reasons, perhaps it is also because I am riding with someone else as well.

filtersweep

Multi-use paths? Around here they are MUTs- "trails"-

The only time I ever use them is during a stretch of shoulderless road with very hostile traffic that is enormously backed up with people making left turns- and without a shoulder (to pass on the right) it is simply faster to use the trail that is beside it.

It is simply irresponsible to ride your personal best time trial on an MUT. The sight lines are very poor, turns have no camber at all, there are all sorts of live and moving obstacles. Road bikes generally belong on the road- unless it is too dangerous, illegal, or impractical (ie. a few interstate highway bridges over the Mississippi River around here have a bike/ped path).

In short, you should be riding slower on an MUT.

I'd argue dedicated bike commuter trails are a bit different.

rogue9607

When I'm riding on the road, I'll get into a good rythem until I get caught by a stop light. Then I'll usually break quickly and then accelerate quickly again once the light turns green. When I'm at a road crossing on a MUP (or riding through a buch of 4-way stops), I generally take longer to slow down, roll a bit at the slow speed to check traffic, and then speed up again more slowly than if I had stopped at a light. Is your average speed being calculated by your computer? If so, the time at a stop likely wouldn't calculate in and the faster acceleration/deceleration would lead to a higher average speed.

You may also be pushing yourself harder when you're one of the slower vehicles on the road versus one of the fastest users of the MUP.

clfjmpr44

I was so ready to argue your post until your last line, which saved it. I understand a lot of MUPs/MUTs are relatively short and offer no advantages versus the road.
However, in Northern VA we have the old W&OD rail line (45 miles) that has been converted to a multi-use trail. It runs from the deep suburbs in Purceville, VA (almost WV) down to connecting trails that enter DC. Because it follows the old choo-choo line almost completely, It is a straight shot for the most part with great sightlines. There are of course your normal dog walkers, rollerbladers and four across walkers, which add the X factor though.

steve_wmn

Someone mentioned sharp curves on trails and I think this might be part of it. The bike paths I use have some of those but it's more than that. The trails I use are never really straight for long stretches like roads. Bike trails generally follow the landscape and this makes them meander back and forth and up and down a bit more than roads do. It's hard to really keep your pace up when you're constantly correcting your steering or gear setting to accomodate the trail.

BOGEE

One thing that I notice when on MUT's as oppose to roads are the cross and headwinds. For some reason the are stonger when on MUT's. This might be part of the difference in speeds.

CycleFreakLS

I think it depends upon the trail and the road. There are two trails that I typically ride, one is the Santa Ana river trail (previously mentioned) and the other is Newport Back Bay. The SA trail is almost always windy (avg, ~2-3 mph swing; bad, ~15 mph swing [meaning: change direction, change speed]). The trail is in very good condition and straight. NBB trail is also in good condition but it is twisty. Almost without fail, the NBB stretch turns into a hammerfest ...

Now, many times the SA trail may have a cross head wind; reach the Pacific, turn R onto Pacific Coast Hwy, now a headwind. The cars are doing 50+ on this stretch. Bike lane is wide. Even with no cars (on my side), sometimes the pace increases. So, maybe the cars on the OTHER side are helping to chop up the wind just enough to increase the pace (!? - I'm just guessing here).

The only problem I have with trails is the "teeny-boppers", riding 4-abreast, chatting away, totally oblivious to oncoming traffic ...

26mi235

Your question did not clearly specify the types of paths that you are refering to. In the Madison area, the city bike paths are paved but out of town they are crushed rock on old RR routes. The non-paved surfaces are anywhere from slightly slower to substantially slower depending on the surface, recent rain etc. I also ride the trails with rather nobby tires on my MTB. The speed difference is as you have described 2-5 mph unless the paths are soft. Half the difference is the MTB, the other half is the surface.

If you mean paved paths, then differences are likely due to the distractions and breaks caused by the layout and use of the path. As several posters have indicated, interferring traffic will slow you down at times. The turns on a bike path are also engineered for slower speeds unless it is a former RR or similar (river) path. The key issue is about getting a good workout.

One possibility is that you are not agressive in getting yourself back up to speed and keeping a high work rate when you get the enforced pauses of the path. In part this would be an issue of mental discipline. When I talk with (other) former runners, they are used to keeping a steady effort while running because it comes almost automatically compared to a bike. It is easy for them to slack off a little because they do not want to "waste" the effort of riding hard and will coast up to lights and stop signs etc.

If you are after a good workout, "effort" is not wasted by time is if you are not pushing through these breaks. If none of these things are a problem for you, recognize that the path results in slower average speeds. However, do not try to maximize your average speed on these paths, as it will diminish your safety and the safety of others.

hubs

Maybe it's the competition. Riding with cars and streetlights I definately push harder for spurts. To make a green light. Accelerate faster to get/stay ahead of a car or to show off that bikes aren't that slow. Occasionally I just try to keep pace with a car. There's nothing like that on a MUP to get the competitive adrenaline going.

Fat Boy Biker

I like your rolling resistance idea. Riding on the Air Force Academy here in Colorado Springs I noticed a difference in road surfaces. Coming down the hill, the first half is a rougher asphalt. I top out at about 40mph. When I reach the lower portion of the hill (the grade is pretty even all the way down), the road is much smoother. I can reach speeds of 46mph. So I do think the surface makes a difference.

Steve

khuon

This is a good point. I did not take into account the headwind differences into my observation. The MUP runs down in the valley thus exposing it to winds. The road parallels along the ridge to the north which often shields it from the same winds (which typically come from the north) unless they blow directly parallel to the road.

khuon

This is a paved path. Actually it's the Sammamish River Trail that runs between Bothell, WA (where it becomes the Burke-Gilman) and Redmond, WA.


I understand that pushing high speeds along these paths can be dangerous. And I'm generally not out on paths for a workout. I just happened to notice a while back that I felt slower on them so I took the opportunity during the low-traffic periods (ie. ~0700 on a winter Sunday morning) to test out some theories. I was interested in seeing if my observations were true and to determine the reasons why.

Chucklehead

around here, the only flat route is the bike path that goes from the beach to the east end of town. so when i ride on the path, i tend to end-up with higher average speeds than when i'm on the road. 23mph is pretty normal on our trail. there aren't alot of people in the way, and if there are, you can just give them a good stiff arm as you go by and they roll right off the edge and into the river. it's actually pretty cool.

and yes, high speeds can be dangerous on a path. one word: "incredibell."

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