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I was wrong. That tubular tire bridge is not too far!

Road Cycling “It is by riding a bicycle that you learn the contours of a country best, since you have to sweat up the hills and coast down them. Thus you remember them as they actually are, while in a motor car only a high hill impresses you, and you have no such accurate remembrance of country you have driven through as you gain by riding a bicycle.” -- Ernest Hemingway

I was wrong. That tubular tire bridge is not too far!

Old 05-19-15, 12:24 PM
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I was wrong. That tubular tire bridge is not too far!

I have been really needing a "project". Also I have a super complete Park truing stand outfit with every imaginable bell and whistle from Chanukah just gathering dust in the closet. Also I haven't taken any weight off any of my bikes recently. Also I just can't leave well enough alone.

So after pricing the Hong Fu lightest carbon frame, and concluding I just didn't want to spend that much money right now (>$700), I finally gave in and ordered up all the parts for an ultra-light set of Chinese carbon tubulars. Yep, that's right. Even with all my experience and knowing what I know, I am jumping out of my current frying pan and into that fire. Despite what I said in a recent thread, that bridge isn't too far after all. I just hope I don't decide that tubulars are just like boats and the two happiest days of my life are the day I buy them and the day I sell them.

* 20 mm deep rims from Onlycarbonwheel on ebay
* lightest hubs and CX-Ray spokes and nipples from BikeHubStore.com
* Vittoria Corsa CX 25 mm tubular tires for only $50 each plus a Vittoria trainer to carry as a spare from Ribble
* Tufo tape
* a tube of cement to prep the spare tire
* and a can of Vittoria Pit Stop for non-catastrophic on-road flats

Funny thing is, all totaled up, I think the frame would have been cheaper.

Anyway, I can sell a pair of my clinchers on ebay and clear about $250, so this works out pretty decent. Wheels should weigh about 1,015 g for the pair if the rims are on target. All together the new wheel system should save about 250 g. That isn't in the $1/g range that I like, more like $2, but I am getting more than weight savings. I am getting a new and different wheel/tire system that many folks promote as being very advantageous.

We will just have to see. One thing for sure...I am getting that project that I was looking for to work on...if nothing else.

Stay tuned for updates and pics.
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Old 05-19-15, 01:07 PM
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Chinese carbon rims? Well, it was nice knowing you.
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Old 05-19-15, 01:09 PM
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i might have recently cleared the trail for you... chinese carbon tubular rims, inexpensive hubs, sapim spokes, using Vittoria CX tubulars and tape (Jantex).

i like the performance (tires at about 75-80PSI), but i had recurring problems with brake squeal and grabby actuation. in fact, on my latest serious accident i'm laying about 20 percent of the blame, after an exhaustive attempt at finding suitable pads, on the braking. the majority of the blame is on, as much as i hate to say it, my incompetence. i should have known better, i knew the braking, as it stood, represented a risk.

i decided to take action... i should have just replaced the front (the brake i use) carbon tubular rim with an alloy tubular rim. it would have been the simplest and most economical choice to improve the braking. but i decided to convert to a front disc brake. it cost more (new fork, new lever, new caliper, new hub, new spokes, and rotor) but i could at least stay with the carbon rim and in the process learn a bit about the latest hydraulic brake technology. and most likely get superior wet-weather braking. not that that is of much consequence here in the semi-arid, drought-ridden central coast of California.

the new disc is now set and i took a quick 10 minute ride the other day. so far so good. my only previous experience with disc brakes was on a FS MTB with XT hydraulics. i have to say i was impressed with them.

BTW, no flats yet, after about 500 miles. i carry a Tufo as a spare (weighs less than 160gms which is about a dollar a gram ) and folds up into about the size of a 32mm tube, and plan on just pulling the Vittoria off (they come off with just the right amount of resistance, with the Jantex tape, to give me confidence that they were on securely, but not so as to make it too difficult to remove) then soft pedal home on the less than secure spare.

i now have two 'flat kits'. and i carry just the one i need. either the one with spare tube, patches, glue, tire irons for the clincher tired bikes or the tubular kit that consists of just the Tufo tubular tire. i know one of these days i'll get a flat and be carrying the wrong kit. i just know it.

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Old 05-19-15, 01:13 PM
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Originally Posted by hueyhoolihan View Post
i recently cleared the trail... chinese carbon tubular rims, inexpensive hubs, sapim spokes, using Vittoria CX tubulars and tape (Jantex).

short answer, i like the performance, but i had recurring problems with brake squeal and grabby actuation. in fact, on my latest serious accident i'm laying about 20 percent of the blame, after an exhaustive attempt at finding suitable pads, on the braking. the majority of the blame is on, as much as i hate to say it, my incompetence.

i decided to take action... i should have just replaced the front (the brake i use) carbon tubular rim with an alloy tubular rim. it would have been the simplest and most economical choice. but i decided to convert to a front disc brake. it cost more (new fork, new lever, new caliper, new hub, new spokes, and rotor) but i could at least stay with the carbon rim and in the process learn a bit about the latest hydraulic brake technology. and most likely get superior wet-weather braking. not that that is of much consequence here in the semi-arid, drought-ridden central coast of California.
Well I have a set each of Black Princes and Yellow Kings from the last short interval when I was running carbon rims (but clincher). I'm trusting one of them will work without squealing...or not. I guess we will see about that too.

Hey, thanks for the trail blazing and tips.
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Old 05-19-15, 01:13 PM
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I would have done alu rims but you'll love them. If/when I go back to tubulars I'll carry a Tufo S33 as a spare. They fold up tight.

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Old 05-19-15, 01:14 PM
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Originally Posted by RPK79 View Post
Well, it was nice knowing you.
Aw, shucks! Really? I don't know what to say.
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Old 05-19-15, 01:19 PM
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Originally Posted by RPK79 View Post
Chinese carbon rims? Well, it was nice knowing you.
Seriously, should be pretty safe for me. No downhills and besides, tubulars not clinchers. Very light but not so much as to scare me when compared to an aluminum clincher. The 85 g/rim difference can easily be explained by the slightly shallower depth and removal of the clincher style raised brake track. And these aren't wider rims either. So in a sense it is a carbon rim that weighs the "same" as a similarly sized aluminum rim like a Kinlin XR-200. That shouldn't be too flimsy. But I will be looking them over carefully initially, after the build, and from time to time.
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Old 05-19-15, 01:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Lazyass View Post
I would have done alu rims but you'll love them. If/when I go back to tubulars I'll carry a Tufo S33 as a spare. They fold up tight.
I have seen where a lot of folks carry the Tufo as a spare. I just didn't know why. Neither did I know which model made sense from Tufo.
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Old 05-19-15, 01:24 PM
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You're selling your 1265g wheelset for $250?

Sell it to me for $275?
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Old 05-19-15, 01:28 PM
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I bought the cheapest alloy tubulars on the planet and they feel better and weigh less than any wheel set that I have ever had, even with training tires on them. No, I have not ridden ultra expensive wheels but even my cheaper Planet X wheels rolled down the hills just as fast as the FU Zipps that were on competitors bikes.

Good luck and enjoy the new wheels!
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Old 05-19-15, 02:24 PM
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Originally Posted by IthaDan View Post
You're selling your 1265g wheelset for $250?

Sell it to me for $275?
I'd be happy to + shipping, but you should know they are powder coated bright yellow. Picture below. They probably come in a little closer to 1,300 g considering the coating. What I am going to do is move black clinchers from the carbon bike to the Ti bike, put the new wheels on the carbon bike and sell the yellow clinchers that were on the Ti. Then I am going to convert the yellow bar tape and cable outer to red to match the red lettering on the Ti frame and put a black saddle on it. The yellow wheels looked better on the plain Ti, black and white frame that I had previously. Now with the red lettering on the Merlin frame, the yellow doesn't go so well.

I don't expect you want yellow wheels, but who knows?

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New Ti.jpg (95.9 KB, 444 views)
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Old 05-19-15, 04:17 PM
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Originally Posted by rpenmanparker View Post
Originally Posted by IthaDan View Post
You're selling your 1265g wheelset for $250?

Sell it to me for $275?
I'd be happy to + shipping, but you should know they are powder coated bright yellow. Picture below. They probably come in a little closer to 1,300 g considering the coating. What I am going to do is move black clinchers from the carbon bike to the Ti bike, put the new wheels on the carbon bike and sell the yellow clinchers that were on the Ti. Then I am going to convert the yellow bar tape and cable outer to red to match the red lettering on the Ti frame and put a black saddle on it. The yellow wheels looked better on the plain Ti, black and white frame that I had previously. Now with the red lettering on the Merlin frame, the yellow doesn't go so well.

I don't expect you want yellow wheels, but who knows?

Freehub?
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Old 05-19-15, 05:26 PM
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Originally Posted by IthaDan View Post
Freehub?
8, 9, 10 speed Shimano, but you can change it to either Campy or Shimano 11 speed for $40. Bike Hub Store hubs.
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Old 05-19-15, 08:56 PM
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Originally Posted by RPK79 View Post
Chinese carbon rims? Well, it was nice knowing you.
I wouldn't trust a lot of knock-off crap but I'd give rims a try.
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Old 05-19-15, 08:58 PM
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Originally Posted by rpenmanparker View Post
Aw, shucks! Really? I don't know what to say.

I'd say go for it and report back.
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Old 05-19-15, 09:25 PM
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No sub 1kg wheelset? What are the rims as a set? I saw a lot of chinese rims claimed at 520-570 for both rims.
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Old 05-20-15, 05:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Bunyanderman View Post
No sub 1kg wheelset? What are the rims as a set? I saw a lot of chinese rims claimed at 520-570 for both rims.
These are supposed to be right in that range, 540 g/pair +/- 30. Then 66 g for the front hub, 190 g for the rear. I'm not going to spend for something like Extralite. Then approximating 44 spokes and nipples at 4.85 g each (for both) = 213. Total = 1009. Close! If the rims fall on the light side of advertised weight, maybe I'll get to 1,000, but what are the chances with carbon? It is not like I can hope for the rims to come from a run off a new die the way I could with aluminum.
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Old 05-20-15, 05:42 AM
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Originally Posted by Csdhlhcky View Post
New around here, I dont mean to jack the thread but can anyone give/direct me to a good description of the different types of wheels/tires/brakes? Everything here looks interesting, would love to purchase a pair of deeper carbon wheels to test for the community!
Welcome, but you need to either do an advanced search for what you want to find, or start a thread about the question you are interested in. Folks looking in here are not the same folks who will be interested in answering your questions.
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Old 05-20-15, 07:24 AM
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FWIW, I have a set of shallow 20mm Chinese tubular wheels built with Sapim spokes and light weight hubs. Four years and 30k later they're still rolling like the first day. Also had a set of 50mm tubulars for over a year until I decided to get a set with the new wide shape and dimpled rims, never an issue either. As long as you research the seller I'd say it's pretty damn safe to buy Chinese wheels and you save yourself a ton of money.
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Old 05-20-15, 07:37 AM
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Originally Posted by kansukee View Post
FWIW, I have a set of shallow 20mm Chinese tubular wheels built with Sapim spokes and light weight hubs. Four years and 30k later they're still rolling like the first day. Also had a set of 50mm tubulars for over a year until I decided to get a set with the new wide shape and dimpled rims, never an issue either. As long as you research the seller I'd say it's pretty damn safe to buy Chinese wheels and you save yourself a ton of money.
That's good to know. Thanks.
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Old 05-20-15, 07:38 AM
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Originally Posted by rpenmanparker View Post
These are supposed to be right in that range, 540 g/pair +/- 30. Then 66 g for the front hub, 190 g for the rear. I'm not going to spend for something like Extralite. Then approximating 44 spokes and nipples at 4.85 g each (for both) = 213. Total = 1009. Close! If the rims fall on the light side of advertised weight, maybe I'll get to 1,000, but what are the chances with carbon? It is not like I can hope for the rims to come from a run off a new die the way I could with aluminum.
They probably won't come in under the estimated weight

You are going to run 20 and 24 spokes for them? A super easy way to lighten them is to just run less spokes. Something like 20x20 or 16x20, but you know more about this then I do, a lot more.

I would just be a little upset if my ultra light wheels weren't able to break the 1kg weight, especially only 9 grams over.
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Old 05-20-15, 08:47 AM
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I just received my chinese 35mm deep clinchers with dt swiss and sapim straight pulls.

nice set of wheels
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Old 05-20-15, 09:06 AM
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Originally Posted by bt View Post
I just received my chinese 35mm deep clinchers with dt swiss and sapim straight pulls.

nice set of wheels
I'd be interested in a link. I'm looking for ~35mm carbons.
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Old 05-20-15, 09:31 AM
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Originally Posted by Trsnrtr View Post
I'd be interested in a link. I'm looking for ~35mm carbons.

carbon 700C 25mm wide road rim clincher 35mm deep U shape tubeless compatible basalt braking surface Light-Bicycle
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Old 05-20-15, 10:11 AM
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Thanks!
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