and lame.

Good excuse for me to bump this up again.

Puff! Puff!

lets do a poll about moving front derailleurs closer to the frame :rolleyes: it will be as constructive as this one.

In truth are you not just a little bit surprised by the outcome? Widespread toe overlap was my thesis, and yet I am shocked at the numbers. I had no idea the phenomenon was SO prevalent. In cyclng where so much of what we believe about bicycle geometry and fit is just prejudice and hearsay, isn't it at all refreshing to have a solid basis for what we think? Or not?

When riding my "too small" '86 Trek 760 Pro Series, I notice that by second nature my back-pedalling going into tight crit style corners happens without pre-planning.

50cm frame, yes toe overlap.. but I never thought this was considered abnormal? It has never been an issue when riding everything from flats to rollers to mountains. Do people actually worry about this?

You're just jealous that you didn't think of doing the toe overlap poll first! :)

Not in the least. I understand that nobody cares except 'dregs.

I, for one, am also surprised by the numbers- and I think that endeavors like this thread, which dispel cycling myths, are the most valuable attribute of these forums. Toe overlap is probably something that almost everyone has encountered, but probably never even gave a passing thought about, until they read in a book/magazine/forum that it was "a problem".

Now we need a poll asking how many pople are dissatisfied with their rim brakes!

One hundred votes. Keep it coming if you will, but I wouldn't be unhappy if this was the end of it. No more bumps...I promise.

No overlap on the Alize.

I'm not surprised at all. It's quite constrained to small frames. Nevertheless in the realm of urban riding, it can be a definite impediment, unless you're a passive rider who stays out of traffic.

How do you figure constrained to small frames? 7/8 of small frames, sure. But also more than half of larger frames. That is not inconsequential.

Yeah. I think people are weirdly obsessed with bashing city riders who really, really want to avoid it for understandable reasons -- a wobble in Boston traffic means cars doing SO MANY weird things around you, even if you hold your line pretty well. And one is often going a lot slower, even if a strong rider, possibly in poor shoe choices. (Especially if one is female. Riding in slick-soled high-heeled shoes in heavy traffic trying to arrive completely unsweaty is very different than roadie riding, and some people only have one bike that has to do it all.) Neither of my city bikes have overlap (one is an old slack-angled rigid MTB, the other is a Brompton, which only overlaps my toes when folded at my feet on a subway train).

As for my roadie -- 50cm (ish, it's a custom), fenders, no toe overlap even with the fenders on and an endurance-y cleat position. But also size 39 feet. The frame is actually spec'ed as having overlap (custom, they asked if I cared, I said no), but it doesn't for me.

I do occasionally smack my right foot into the front wheel starting at stops while turning left, if I'm too busy paying attention to traffic to clip in while turning hard and have the center of my foot resting on the pedal. (I'm a right-foot-downer.) But I don't ride it in heavy traffic much.

Then you have toe-overlap.

I have toe overlap, but it really only affects me when I'm first starting, and that is if I'm not careful.

GH

No, I only have it if I don't have my foot clipped-in and resting way far in front of its normal position, which I don't really think counts.

Ok, from the way you described it, the foot was in the normal position.

Yes, 1 inch can make a difference between toe-overlap and no toe-overlap.

But it's still not a big deal except for starting and a very slow parking lot turn.

GH

And newbies.

The wife and I are just getting into the touring bike scene and, in testing various bikes, this is my main concern.
I've ridden diamond frame bikes all my life for many many miles (the standard "10 speed" variety), though not in some years, and I don't EVER remember my foot hitting my front wheel.
Granted, we've only ridden at slow speeds and I understand that's when it's most prevalent.
I guess one doesn't turn that sharply at higher speeds.

However, I could see that being dangerous in slow-speed traffic, but I'll take the majority's word that one gets used to it.

Just my .02
(I know. People hate that too! lol)

B

I wouldn't be surprised if the poll suffered from significant self-selection bias. I've only really had any interest in toe-overlap since I acquired a bike that had that characteristic a number of years ago. Prior to that I would have been unlikely to even open this thread, much less vote in the poll. But now that I have such a bike I'm more interested and did participate in the poll with a 'yes/60cm' vote although all of my previous bikes were in the 'no/>55cm' camp.

So who turns with their foot sticking out at 3 o'clock?

I wouldn't be surprised about self-selection bias either, but I also wouldn't be surprised that there is none. This is the data we have, so it is the data I will go with. If you have a better poll, by all means let's get on with it. As for opening the poll not attractive a broad audience of all kinds of folks, I was hoping the title would give us a leg up on that. And then there is me. Lots of folks on the 41 can't resist seeing what complete foolishness I am up to now. They know that I try not to disappoint.

I dunno. It was fun while it lasted. And isn't that what BF is all about?

Bottom line as far as I am concerned based on lots more experience than just this poll is that: Lots of folks have toe overlap. Lots of folks ride in big city traffic. Those two sets must have a major overlap. It can't matter all that much. And I do issue a challenge: prove me wrong!

I remembered this thread just before starting our ride today and checked to see if my toe hit and it doesn't. This is a 58cm Caad 8

If you need to pedal through a tight u-turn, or such, you can hit the tire with your toe.
At slow speeds, heavy overlap can be enough to slow you down and/or lock your steering, which can make you lose balance.
1 of my bikes has heavy overlap, so I am in the habit of doing half revolution push with inside foot, back pedal, half revolution inside foot again, in those rare situations.

Toe overlap is an issue for dwarfs. Sorry about that.

It's nice to be tall.

Women like tall guys.

The data says otherwise. Not about what women like. About who has overlap. More than 50% of riders of bikes of 55cm or larger. That is not exactly dwarfs. About what women like, well that is even now still open to conjecture. You see a lot of couples that don't exactly match your characterization. Women have a way of seeking out what really matters. I have to think how tall you are isn't any more of a draw than how tall your wallet is. And we haven't even gotten yet to other size issues if you know what I mean.

Ya.. I think I've already chimed in.. I'm 6'2" riding a 59cm merlin cyrene and I have toe overlap (though I do have size 14 feet).. I have a feeling that larger frames, mean taller people, mean bigger feet... maybe not a directly proportionate effect.

...for what office are you running ? I live pretty far away from you there in Texas, so it would have to be something national.

...about what? I have like 50 bikes, I could probably have just done your survey out in my garage. If someone is in my way when I'm riding one of the tight ones (all of which have some overlap), I yell at them to get out of my way. Problem solved.:)

I said, " prove me wrong if you can," not "prove me right!" We're of a like mind here. Yelling solves any toe overlap problems just like almost any other problem with cycling. Just yesterday I centered my brakes just by scaring them into the right place. ;)