Alias530

Like you don't have the energy to push hard enough to get your heart rate up? No matter how hard I tried today, I couldn't get my heart rate above 140. I imagine it just means I need a day or two off but still odd.

My training plan called for 3 hours of "endurance miles" today. I have no idea if that means a specific heart rate, specific perceived exertion, or what. My mental perceived exertion was probably way higher than my actual physical exertion compared to a normal day when I'm fresh.

My average speed was only ~1mph slower than normal, but my avg heart rate was 20-25 lower than normal (for the loop I did, which I've done many times).

Vicegrip

Suppressed HR can be a sign of overtraining. Or not. Can also be a sign of being under driven.

Leinster

I hear it can be an effect of overtraining, but I wouldn't have any personal experience of that sort of thing.

A bunch of friends spent a week in the Alps a while back. On the last day they did a TT up Alpe D'Huez. The only guy who made it up in under an hour said his HR never went above 120 the whole way.

Alias530

Definitely not a lack of motivation/drive... I was out on my cross bike which I finally got sorted out (bunch of random issues). And the trails I ride it on have been overgrown for a while and trail work finally got done. I was snapping at the bit to get out there and hammer my brains out. I went on a long/hard ride yesterday though after doing several interval sessions this past week... so maybe I just need a day off?

Vicegrip

If you have be under training a day off would not be the recommended tactic. Tired, not enough sleep, dehydration?

Btw. If you have a "training plan" you might want to figure out and understand the metrics of the work called for. One mph is a lot over a well known route

Alias530

I doubt I'm undertraining... I went from 7-10 hours a week of 90% effort to 7-8 hours a week of 110% effort (based on FTP) on two days and 70% effort the other two days. I have a cat1 buddy who is just feeding me workouts day by day. Today was "endurance miles" and I set out to try to maintain ~130 beats but I could barely get above 130. Usually I hover around 140-150 on hard efforts.

PepeM

What kind of training plan you are following that doesn't explain what you're supposed to do?

RJM

Endurance miles would mean zone 3 or 4 or perceived exertion. In my plan that means me running at 56-75% of FTP if using a power meter...if using a heart rate meter I would be running 69-83% of my calculated FTP using my heart rate meter. It should be an "all day pace" you are running, so I would think being at or below 130 is where you want to be.

caloso

How many recovery days?

Alias530

Cycling T/Th/Sa/Su. Short low intensity weights sessions on M/W, Friday totally off.

Vicegrip

7 to 8 hours total or per workout type? How many hours of 110% FTP in a ride? With "145 HR on hard efforts" I have to wonder if you are a "mature" rider. As example I am in my mid 50s and can't get close to my FTP at a 145 HR

Alias530

7-8 hours total. Sorry if that wasn't clear... two days of intervals, 1 hour each, 20-30 minutes at 110% FTP and the other two days, 2-3 hours each, are lower efforts.

roadwarrior

FWIW...as I got older my top end dropped. Then suddenly it dropped a lot. I was diagnosed, via hospital testing with a Type 2 Heart Block. Essentially it's a condition where the electrical signals the body sends to make the heart beat correctly get lost in the translation. So the ventricle and atrium do not beat correctly.
I had a Stress Echogram done (treadmill test with ultrasound). Zero blockages and the heart is pumping blood just fine, but the symptom was that my top end exercise HR had dropped dramatically. I had regressed to a Type 3 block. Basically the signal does not go at all. However, because I was still riding it kind of befuddled the experts because generally a Type 3 really really depresses your HR...like walking down the driveway is akin to climbing Everest..
So I needed a pacemaker which I had done last week. Took all of 40 minutes and it is programmed for low and high end HR. It's like I had a battery installed. Surgery, but you are awake during the process. Because mine is Type 3 I have a two lead system to get both chambers working together.
I talked to a woman who has done 13 marathons and run Boston twice with the same model I have.
Point...if you are in your 50's and up and are seeing a significant decrease in your top end (my resting has always been low, like high 30's to low 40's depending) or a sudden drop in HR, get it checked. Bradychardia and/or arrhythmia can be a serious issue. My slow HR WAS originally due to my racing...later it wasn't.

Alias530

I'm 29, should have included that in the post...

Excuse my ignorance, but does a pacemaker replace your whole heart? How do you improve cardio capacity if you have a machine instead of a muscle?

roadwarrior

No it does not replace the whole heart.

It is a small computer with electrical leads that go into the heart chambers. It is programmed to sense when the heart beat goes down, or up but not enough to satisfy demand (which was my problem). So if my heart rate were to drop below 50, the computer kicks in and sends a signal to the heart to speed up. It basically replaces my natural pacemaker. Everyone has this, naturally, but if you experience these blocks (not blockages like an arterial blockage with plaque, but a signal block) your heart chambers do not beat in rhythm. At type 3 I could not get my HR over 100. Now, if I ride and I need 'juice" the computer sends the signal my natural system used to and speeds up the chambers pumping blood. 140 is my top end right now.
They insert this device under your collarbone on the side opposite your dominant arm (mine is on the left because I am right handed) and one or two leads are snaked down through the veins into the heart chambers. Because mine was a type 3 I have two.
It just does what my body used to do, which is send signals to make the heart beat faster or slower. I have to go into the doctor periodically to have it checked and when the battery runs low (about 10 years or so) they replace just the computer part.
Know that the cardiologist who did mine last week specializes in pediatric pacemakers. My regular guy was on rounds, so his partner did the surgery. I only mention this because he has done nearly 4,000 of these mostly on kids (thus the pediatric moniker) so this is not some older guy issue, exclusively. I learned I have had this gradually going on for years but it's just come to a head within the last coupled of months. Point is that if you were at a certain level and that suddenly changes, see someone.

According to my cardiologist, it is not uncommon for endurance sports folks to have some stage of this. Most of my former racing buddies have type 2. Mine just progressed to a 3. I elected to have the pacemaker because it is a quality of life issue.

Darth Steele

Viagra should get "it" up and keep it up for a couple hours.. wash it down with a red bull and enjoy the "ride"

Alias530

Is this something that develops BECAUSE of endurance sports or it's just observed because only endurance activity shines a light on it? I like doing long rides but I don't want it to hurt me in the long run.

roadwarrior

Not because...but there are people who can race for 160 miles, run marathons, do full Ironman's etc.. to cite a couple of examples. Not everyone can despite training. I have been checked by doctors so often I could not even guess at the number of times...but consistently it's been you have a low HR and a large heart (pump). This is just a result of that, and it does not impact 100% of people who do endurance sports.

And I did not hurt myself in the long run. It's not a big deal and it is easily fixed. I have had everything checked and it's all good...I just need a higher heart rate. The only reason I mentioned any of this is that it seems like a lot of people come out here for advice for medical issues when they should be seeing a professional.

Your top end HR will gradually drop as you age, anyway (from age 20 to 30 it is about 10 beats less). Mine was just way too low for everyone's, especially my, liking.

Alias530

I've only seen my heart rate go above 170 a couple of times and I'm 29. A hard but sustainable effort for me is in the 140-155 range.

roadwarrior

At 30 years old I was about 190 for VO2 (been a while) and my anaerobic was about 170. I'd ride all day at around 150 (steady state). At 20 years old 200 for VO2 and 180 anaerobic, steady state 160. But I'd been bike racing virtually every day for 10+ years.

If you are not really training for heavy efforts on a consistent basis, those heart rates are right in there.

I have had this stuff checked, but not as frequently as I should have. I just didn't want to end up like some of these guys who go on a bike ride or a run and think they are healthy, don't see a doctor and keel over and die one day while riding or running.

Alias530

Strange... I think some people are just built differently. I came from a weight lifting background so I think my heart probably just moves more blood per stroke. I have a FAST cat1 buddy who is the same way. A hard ride for him will average in the 140s.

PepeM

I thought it was well known that hear rate varies from person to person.

deacon mark

I am 54 next month and 37 years of long distance running and cycling my resting HR is 40. I rarely get my heart rate above 140 for any length of time and really hard to go 150. Back 23 years ago I wore a HR monitor during an all out mile run ( about 6 minutes) and manage to get my HR to 186. I too see that on some days I cannot get my heart rate up and I am tired. Basically it is overtraining I think. When I really rest up which is rare, I go out much harder and my overall HR is higher for the entire work out. I should add that even though I have been doing aerobic exercise all my life I still have high blood pressure. I was started developing elevated blood pressure when I was 13 years old and that baffled many doctors. They did all sorts of kidney test, and heart test and the like and no real answer. I was able in my early 30's in the best shape of my life to not take medication but lasted about a year and started back up.

These days it is under control but I take an ace-inhibitor losartan with 12.5 mg of water pill ( cannot spell the name.) I have a mitral valve prolapse but that does not cause me any issues. I keep saying I have to stay active to avoid having to take loads of medication. I do believe that normally I over train but the lower heart rate when running or riding for me is a sign that I need to back off. Sometimes you study the stuff and get different answers depending on who you talk to. I still find that personal years of experience are worth much. Does not mean that still things can happen because sure enough exercise does not guarantee anything when it comes to some situations.

Alias530

Yeah, I'm comparing myself to myself and trying to find out why some days it stays low no matter what.

PepeM

Didn't sound like it here:

In any case, that is one of the issues of training with heart rate: its inherent variability due to external factors. Luckily for you, you have a power meter.