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Race Bike versus Touring (and Why to Choose Which)

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Race Bike versus Touring (and Why to Choose Which)

Old 07-04-15, 10:32 PM
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Race Bike versus Touring (and Why to Choose Which)

Before I'm lambasted for not using the search function, I've found and read this thread here:
https://www.bikeforums.net/touring/35...ing-bikes.html

So I get the mechanical differences between a touring and a race bike.
I am the proud new owner of a Bianchi Oltre XR1. I love the bike. But admittedly, I'm a newbie and there's no shame in being honest: a big attraction of the bike for me was just the way it looked in the showroom, relative to my budget. It felt great in the parking lot, and it rides fantastic. But in truth, I didn't ride a bunch of bikes to really compare one to the other before laying down the cash.

That said, in trying to get remedial education to be more wise for the future, can someone explain to me why a "touring" bike would be more expensive than a race bike? For instance, Bianchi's Infinito CV is more than 20% higher in price: Infinito CV Chorus Compact | Bianchi USA

Near as I can tell, it has similar components, if not identical. In the world I come from (automotive racing) the "race" line is almost always the pinnacle. But obviously I have a lot to learn in cycling. Is the enhanced comfort more "valuable" and thus commands a higher price? The logic would imply the race line has the latest and greatest technology.

Not complaining, but it seems counter intuitive. Usually the better performance, the higher the price. But maybe performance is relative to the metric. I suppose there's more comfort performance.
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Old 07-04-15, 10:34 PM
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I guess to add a P.S. to this thread.

Considering I mostly do solo riding around 100KM or less for fun and fitness with occasional group rides (with no intention of racing.) ...If I were going to buy a second bike in the future, am I wise to look at a touring bike for my needs?
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Old 07-04-15, 10:53 PM
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What you're looking at is not a touring bike. It's just a road bike that's not racing specific. The difference is going to manifest itself in handling and small details like that. It's still a road bike, and a reasonably fast one at that. These bikes are typically labeled endurance bikes and are marketed to road riders who aren't racing, and value comfort over outright speed.

A touring bike would be further relaxed and would be designed to handle well under a loaded weight, have mounts for racks to carry that weight, as well as components capable of holding the extra load. An example of this class of bike would be a surly long haul trucker.
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Old 07-04-15, 10:54 PM
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Infinito is not a touring bike. It is what they call and endurance bike. Still a race bike with more relaxed geometry. Touring bike would be like a Surly Long Haul Trucker for example and is a much different beast. Race and endurance bikes can run $10k+.
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Old 07-04-15, 11:00 PM
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Okay, what would one "feel" typically in an endurance bike over a "race," and why is the endurance that much more expensive?
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Old 07-04-15, 11:07 PM
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Some bikes cost more because the frame has more engineering money in it, or its newer, or the company wants it to be premium. There's nothing about an endurance or race frame that means it's more expensive than the other, each frame is unique. What you generally feel is a more upright position and less aggressive handling.
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Old 07-04-15, 11:15 PM
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I think aside from the components not being a direct comparison (for example the infinito has a carbon bar and the other has an alloy, different wheels, groupset, etc, etc), there is probably a lot of R&D cost in that infinito frame because of their new micro carbon whatever vibration dampening frame. Just a guess...not necessarily the reason.
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Old 07-05-15, 03:46 AM
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Originally Posted by Van Goghs Ear
I think aside from the components not being a direct comparison (for example the infinito has a carbon bar and the other has an alloy, different wheels, groupset, etc, etc), there is probably a lot of R&D cost in that infinito frame because of their new micro carbon whatever vibration dampening frame. Just a guess...not necessarily the reason.
Exactly. The Infinito CV, as an "endurance" (as opposed to "touring") bike, is in a way a kind of race bike, the kind to which technological advancements are being first applied - just like in motor sports.
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Old 07-05-15, 03:59 AM
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Originally Posted by Eyenigma
Okay, what would one "feel" typically in an endurance bike over a "race," and why is the endurance that much more expensive?
The differences are subtle. Typically (there are always exception), the "race" bike will have a shorter head tube (so the rider can get in a more aggressive aero position) and more responsive handling (some might consider it "twitchy"). The "race" frames are often stiffer than their endurance counterparts since racers are typically putting down more power and are willing to sacrifice ride comfort for efficiency.

Pricing differences are far more complicated.
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Old 07-05-15, 04:39 AM
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Originally Posted by Eyenigma
Before I'm lambasted for not using the search function, I've found and read this thread here:
https://www.bikeforums.net/touring/35...ing-bikes.html

So I get the mechanical differences between a touring and a race bike.
I am the proud new owner of a Bianchi Oltre XR1. I love the bike. But admittedly, I'm a newbie and there's no shame in being honest: a big attraction of the bike for me was just the way it looked in the showroom, relative to my budget. It felt great in the parking lot, and it rides fantastic. But in truth, I didn't ride a bunch of bikes to really compare one to the other before laying down the cash.

That said, in trying to get remedial education to be more wise for the future, can someone explain to me why a "touring" bike would be more expensive than a race bike? For instance, Bianchi's Infinito CV is more than 20% higher in price: Infinito CV Chorus Compact | Bianchi USA

Near as I can tell, it has similar components, if not identical. In the world I come from (automotive racing) the "race" line is almost always the pinnacle. But obviously I have a lot to learn in cycling. Is the enhanced comfort more "valuable" and thus commands a higher price? The logic would imply the race line has the latest and greatest technology.

Not complaining, but it seems counter intuitive. Usually the better performance, the higher the price. But maybe performance is relative to the metric. I suppose there's more comfort performance.
I really have to question what pedigree you have in automotive racing. How practical is driving a race car on the street?
You spent $5K...likely got that bike for under retail and you are asking this question now? You are like the kid who tells his rich dad you want a BMW M3 for your 16th bday because they look cool.

The bike you bought is nice but has toward aggressive geometry...I have owned Bianchis with the same geometry and the Fulcrum Wheelset you have in particular is quasi aero but heavy and btw quite stiff with its deep Al rim section which will diminish the ride of the bike...acceleration and climbing.
Chorus 11s has few peers...I own it as well.
A newb unless unusually flexible, light and fit is better off with an endurance geometry with a higher handlebar than you can get on that bike.

Touring or longer distance bikes largely have different geometry...generally endurance geometry...frames tend to be a bit heavier...higher payload touring specific bikes sometimes a fair amount heavier and stronger and touring bikes have eyelets to mount racks and fenders front an back. A racer on an unloaded touring bike can drop an average rider on any bike...even a $10K carbon 14 lb bike. I own a light touring bike below. In fact, if I take the panniers off the bike and keep the rear rack on which never comes off this bike...the Topeak luggage/panniers you see is slide and click and comes right off, even with platform pedals I can keep up with 98% of the riders on the road in speed and I am 61 y.o. In fact, if you are a newbie, I may drop you on your Bianchi. Speed on a bike is much more about the guy riding it than the bike. But if a touring bike has 50 lbs on on it, it will slow a rider down of course. I like riding my touring bike loaded because it is a great workout btw.

Enjoy your new bike even tho you spent a boatload not knowing much about bikes. You would have done well on a new Spesh or Cannondale Al bike and likely best of all on an endurance geometry bike at 1/2 of cost but guys with deep pockets do what you did all the time...its done the same with cars and watches and everything else everyday.

My light touring bike: crappy FSA square taper crank has been replaced with 105 11s and this bike is currently torn down to mount Campy 10s because I couldn't stand the ergos of Tiagra...or any Shimano.


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Old 07-05-15, 05:36 AM
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Ouch! Welcome to the forum!
For what it's worth, I happen to own a very expensive watch that I have no idea about how it works.
Fortunately I am able to tell the time just by looking at it
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Old 07-05-15, 05:49 AM
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Aston Martin = Ferrari = Rolls Royce
each has its own associated costs to produce & sell.
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Old 07-05-15, 05:56 AM
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Originally Posted by Eyenigma
Usually the better performance, the higher the price.
Absolutely!
The most expensive bike is the fastest and best handling.

Being properly fitted, spending lots of seat time in developing endurance, power, speed, good bike handling skills and pedaling dynamics is a waste of time.

a big attraction of the bike for me was just the way it looked in the showroom
Far more important is how your bike looks in the parking lot at Starbucks.
Do as Captain Fast does and practice braying "53-11, 400 Watts & HTFU!" while displaying your way-cool race bike to a bunch of dentists.

-Bandera
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Old 07-05-15, 05:58 AM
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Originally Posted by bakes1
Ouch! Welcome to the forum!
For what it's worth, I happen to own a very expensive watch that I have no idea about how it works.
Fortunately I am able to tell the time just by looking at it
Me too!
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Old 07-05-15, 05:59 AM
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While I won't say every newb needs to be on an entry level alum, I will say that most people that buy a Bianchi are making uninformed decisions and overpaying for a European name (much like all the drivers where l live in entry level BMW and Mercedes that are glorified Toyota Camrys). A carbon 105 Defy or Synapse is a nice starting point for the newb with money to burn.
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Old 07-05-15, 07:09 AM
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Originally Posted by rms13
While I won't say every newb needs to be on an entry level alum, I will say that most people that buy a Bianchi are making uninformed decisions and overpaying for a European name (much like all the drivers where l live in entry level BMW and Mercedes that are glorified Toyota Camrys). A carbon 105 Defy or Synapse is a nice starting point for the newb with money to burn.
It isn't just paying more. Bianchi, Pinarello, DeRosa etc make great bikes. Problem is warranty support...or part support in general associated with the frameset. To me Specialized makes the best bikes in the world...but...there is very little difference between all the top bikes...Giant, Cannondale, Trek, Cervelo etc. So how to choose a bike aside from a particular genre like endurance bikes all of them make? Customer support and as you mention cost to a degree...but mostly warranty and customer support is why I wouldn't purchase a European frame which btw isn't necessarily lack of customer support from European bike makers...and throw Look in the mix I have also owned...but it is partly based upon logistics...for the American consumer. Likely different for those that live in the same country where the bike company resides. Btw, I would feel the same about Campagnolo parts but honesty, their stuff almost never fails and I have owned it for decades.

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Old 07-05-15, 07:54 AM
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Originally Posted by Campag4life
Problem is warranty support....
That's Crazy Talk.

Race bike frames should be purchased based on two requirements:

1) Is the brand an unpronounceable Italian name that only the cognoscenti can say with a straight face?
B) Does a UCI World Tour team of questionable medical supplement use offer a Team Replica for 3X the price of the production version ?

Be sure to install the full electronics package of power meter, GPS and camera to fiddle with at Starbucks while wearing your full Team Shy or Team Blotto kit.

-Bandera
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Old 07-05-15, 08:33 AM
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Originally Posted by Bandera
That's Crazy Talk.

Race bike frames should be purchased based on two requirements:

1) Is the brand an unpronounceable Italian name that only the cognoscenti can say with a straight face?
B) Does a UCI World Tour team of questionable medical supplement use offer a Team Replica for 3X the price of the production version ?

Be sure to install the full electronics package of power meter, GPS and camera to fiddle with at Starbucks while wearing your full Team Shy or Team Blotto kit.

-Bandera
OK. Ah...the romance and mystical nature...the allure.
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Old 07-05-15, 08:48 AM
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Originally Posted by Campag4life
OK. Ah...the romance and mystical nature...the allure.
The conspicuous consumption, the pro look, the inability to ride a straight line or out sprint a 13 year old junior...

-Bandera
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Old 07-05-15, 10:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Campag4life
I really have to question what pedigree you have in automotive racing.
It's how I make my living, and have for the past 15 years. Not sure that qualifies me for anything, but just to clarify.

Originally Posted by Campag4life
How practical is driving a race car on the street? You spent $5K...likely got that bike for under retail and you are asking this question now? You are like the kid who tells his rich dad you want a BMW M3 for your 16th bday because they look cool.
Okay, that does feel like a bit of a shot you're taking, but point taken. Your analogy makes sense, sort of. But for one– nobody bought me anything, it was my own hard earned dime. And second, I'm not naive enough to think I'm better or worse for having a "race" bike. Is there an element of perhaps having bought something unnecessary? Sure. But couldn't the same be said for any person who indulges in a nicer bottle of wine? A tailored suit? Or a designer handbag? Surely everyone has something they like to splurge on, even when a practical alternative exists. I'm not debating the cost to value or implying it's necessarily "better." The nature of the question was why endurance bikes tend to be more highly priced. Bringing it back to the M3, it's not as if the fully loaded 3 series is more expensive than the highest performance model.

Originally Posted by Campag4life
A newb unless unusually flexible, light and fit is better off with an endurance geometry with a higher handlebar than you can get on that bike.
That's fair, and perhaps something I wish my local shop would have shed more light on. But again, hence me trying to get more educated as I grow and learn in the road cycling area. It's not as if I dislike the bike mind you. I love it. Just more inquiring about the path I didn't take and trying to learn for future purchases.

Originally Posted by Campag4life
In fact, if you are a newbie, I may drop you on your Bianchi.
Easy there. New to road cycling, but I'm a long time mountain biker in pretty decent shape. Not implying I'm necessarily "fast," but on a handful of rides so far... I can hold my own. Still not used to longer mileage rides yet, but all in time. Maybe you got the impression I've never ridden a bike before? It's not as if I'm implying I'm fast because I have a race bike. Not at all. I know it's about riding up grades, not buying upgrades. That's one constant between MTB and Road.

Originally Posted by Campag4life
Enjoy your new bike even tho you spent a boatload not knowing much about bikes.
Um... Thanks? I get what you're saying. But your response is more about consumerism and human nature than answering why some favor one type of frame type over the other. I don't think anyone is arguing that my bike is "better" or not matched in performance by something less expensive. I just fell in love with the bike, the brand, and the Oltre was within the budget I was comfortable spending. I've spent small fortunes on MTB, so I also wanted to buy something of quality. Not that I could have gone wrong with any other brand, but the Bianchi seems like a beautiful and finely tuned machine.
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Old 07-05-15, 10:19 PM
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Originally Posted by bakes1
Ouch! Welcome to the forum!
For what it's worth, I happen to own a very expensive watch that I have no idea about how it works.
I'm a big watch fan myself. I see many similarities in the gears, engineering, and geometry. I imagine there are many watch fans among cyclists.
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Old 07-05-15, 10:27 PM
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Originally Posted by rms13
...Most people that buy a Bianchi are making uninformed decisions and overpaying for a European name...
That's a pretty subjective opinion though, and also one sided. I'm not arguing it's good or bad, nor am I looking to defend my purchase. But prestige, provenance, and cache command price. Does a Rolex really tell the time better than a Casio? Of course not. But there are are nuances that make it special to the owner. Brand history. A well told story. A lineage and/or precedent.

I would like to think I know what I bought, and what I didn't. I'm under no illusions my bike is "better" than any other comparably equipped product. But I don't see the harm in buying into the lineage or wanting to associate with the romance of the brand.

Just my respectful two cents.
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Old 07-05-15, 10:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Bandera
Absolutely!
The most expensive bike is the fastest and best handling.

Being properly fitted, spending lots of seat time in developing endurance, power, speed, good bike handling skills and pedaling dynamics is a waste of time.



Far more important is how your bike looks in the parking lot at Starbucks.
Do as Captain Fast does and practice braying "53-11, 400 Watts & HTFU!" while displaying your way-cool race bike to a bunch of dentists.

-Bandera
Anti-dentite!
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Old 07-05-15, 11:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Eyenigma
That's a pretty subjective opinion though, and also one sided. I'm not arguing it's good or bad, nor am I looking to defend my purchase. But prestige, provenance, and cache command price. Does a Rolex really tell the time better than a Casio? Of course not. But there are are nuances that make it special to the owner. Brand history. A well told story. A lineage and/or precedent.

I would like to think I know what I bought, and what I didn't. I'm under no illusions my bike is "better" than any other comparably equipped product. But I don't see the harm in buying into the lineage or wanting to associate with the romance of the brand.

Just my respectful two cents.
You certainly have a really nice bike and it will let you do anything you want on a road bike. My point was that you can get a comparable bike from other brands for less but you know that. If the bike you bought is what you want and its within your comfortable spending range then be very happy with your purchase and get out and put a lot of miles on it
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Old 07-05-15, 11:51 PM
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Originally Posted by gc3
Anti-dentite!
I love a good Tim Whatley reference
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