I think my take away so far is that there's no reason for me to be thinking about leaving my Guru steel for some other material. Lots of great bikes in a variety of materials and, really, my improvement is about me getting better on the bike.

So, here's another off topic subject to speak on in this thread. I've been calling and talking to lots of builders lately. Lots of the bigger names in steel and Ti and talking to them about different bikes and even some about competitors products.

During one of the discussions BD/Motobecane came up. And the response was something like, "Whether you decide to buy our bike or a bike from another builder, just don't buy one of the BD/Motobecane Ti bikes." They went on to say that the construction process of the BD Ti frames was poor and would lead to a broken frame.

Has anyone else heard this before? Ay reports of broken BD/Motobecane Ti frames?

Never heard it.

I used to work for an importer of budget Russian Ti frames. When I started, we were selling aluminum and Ti road bikes. We sold as many or more ti frames than aluminum for the first couple years I was there. I saw two Ti frame failures.

There was a nearby dealer who sold a lot of Litespeed bikes, but they went out of business a couple of years after I got there. We saw way more broken Litespeeds - which represented a fraction of the Ti bikes the other shop sold, which was a fraction of the budget Ti we sold - than we saw problems with our own Ti. Budget Ti frames couldn't be sold at such low prices if they had a high failure rate because constant warranty replacements would run them out of business.

Unless there are specific reports of multiple BD Ti frame failures (which I have not heard, not that that means anything), the 'reputable' builder was simply trashing the competition. Americans are not the only people in the world who know how to weld titanium.

OP: I am going to recommend a book I think you should read:

http://www.amazon.com/The-Paradox-Ch.../dp/149151423X

Hey, I found one for you too:

http://www.amazon.com/Mind-Your-Busi.../dp/0758294131

Initially, I was going to suggest this one for your reading list:

http://www.amazon.com/Kiss-My-Ass-So.../dp/B002MH2N9U

But after careful consideration, I feel like the first book is more appropriate for you here.

I got it down to 18lbs now. Lighter tires/tubes believe it or not.

My next stage is knocking it down to sub 17lb weight with a lighter wheelset, but I might have to knock 20lbs off myself before I go that route!

PS this thread is going well I think.

I spoke with the good BikeDoctor just this morning:

Ritchey Road Logic 2.0 - $839.92 (frame, fork, headset, 5lb)
SRAM Rival 22 Groupset (175 crank, short cage DR, 11-28) $699 (+$300 for Force)
Ritchey WCS Logic II Handlebars $72
Ritchey Comp Stem $49
Maximum Spacers $15
Lizard Skin Tape - $35
Bike Build $90
$99 Shipping
Total for Rival 22 build: $1898.92

$839.92 for a new steel frame, carbon fork and headset is a friggin deal.

By the way, do you remember what your frame weighs? He told me 5 lb on the phone.

I think he means 5 lb for the entire package with everything included in the frameset. My 54cm Ritchey Breakaway frame only but with the couplers weighed either just 3.9 lb and that is what is listed by Ritchey for the 55 cm Logic. So 5 lb for the whole thing makes sense. You don't do better IMO.

And that Ritchey Pro is a great fork.

The frame's about 4lbs IIRC. The fork weighs about 13oz uncut, the headset probably makes the total package 5 lbs.

@Jarrett2 Are you giving up on the custom Ti idea then?

I've given up on custom for sure. I don't see a reason to throw an extra $3,000 down just to say they cut it special for me.

Now basically just deciding between a Lynksey, Litespeed or Ritchey Road Logic.

Surprisingly, they are not that far apart in price (or weight) once you get to dealing in numbers.

Waiting the Roubaix to sell before making any moves.

Might want to look carefully at Litespeed before jumping in those waters. I've heard some less than great things about them in recent years.

I've riddent litespeed and specialized in the past. Last bike was a tarmac sl4 and it was nice, but not soft. Just did a Ritchey logic built up with sram red and carbon parts. weighs 17 lbs with pedals. roder' 160 miles last weekend and it was fantastic. doubt i'll go back to carbon . Moots if you go ti.

Wraith Hustle is 3.1 lbs so you could probably buld a 16 lb bike with your parts if you choose the rest wisely

Why spend that on Rival when you can get Ultegra for $100 less? Actually I think you can get force for around $700 from the UK

thank you for the answer. I have one cannondale R300 aluminum frame. But because the dropouts is 126mm i not know if is worth to put better parts. I put 130mm wheel in that frame but i not know if i do damage in the dropouts. I have fulcrum racing 7 and fulcrum racing T wheels. And groupset i have ultegra 6500

Look where? I haven't heard anything negative about them.

Maybe due to weight:

Ultegra groupset weighs 2294
Rival groupset weighs 2244
Force groupset weighs 2152

Component Weights


Oh, were you asking me but quoted someone else? I just prefer SRAM to Shimano. I'm not sure if he'd let me have the groupset drop shipped in from UK to build. I guess I could have the frame/fork/bars/etc shipped to me from him and the groupset shipped to me from the UK and find someone local I trust to build it all up. Not sure I have someone I trust though.

I love Rival and have SOME of it on my 531 steel bike that comes in at 16.25 lb sans pedals and add-ons. That is a pretty heavy steel frame, just under 5 lb for the 54 cm frame alone and a 350 g carbon fork on top of that. With a 3.9 lb Logic if you can't get below 16.0 lb, you are simply not trying.

Not all Rival on mine, just the derailleurs and shifters. FSA SL-K Lite crank, Zero Gravity Ti brake calipers, 150 g seat post, 115 g stem, 180 g bars, and 1,250 g Kinlin/Bike Hub Store-based aluminum wheels.

Have you heard much of anything about them recently? Do some searches on Litespeed quality and warranty service. If you have a dealer nearby, check one out yourself. That is, if they even stock any Ti Litespeeds. It's pretty clear that ABG has been minimizing the importance of Ti in their line for a long time. Most Litespeed models are Asian-sourced CF and Merlin was allowed to die, then the corpse was sold off. Do they even make their own frames anymore or do they source them from another American or Asian manufacturer?

Well, I've talked to some dealers that carry both Lynskey and Litespeed and all of them have pushed me towards Litespeed over Lynskey. One said that Litespeed was keeping up with the industry changes better than Lysnkey and another said Litespeed had more modern designs. In my area, the only Ti bikes I see on the road are Litespeed and Moots. I've never seen a Lynskey around here. I talked to a Litespeed owner on a ride Saturday who said he bought his first one 11 years ago and recently bought a second one and that's all he would ride.

That said, I really like what I've seen watching the videos and talking to the folks at Lynskey. The high pressure sales deal is not that fun to deal with, but the pricing is sure nice after a bit of discussion. After seeing those great videos on YouTube, I was hoping to deal with Don Erwin there, but apparently he left the company a month ago to go work somewhere else. That sounded a bit concerning as well.

The Ritchey stuff is definitely not made in the US, but those folks that have Ritchey frames seem to really like them.

They are painted here though.