Golden Cheetah FTP / Critical Power Chart
 

* disclaimer: I'm not fluent in Golden Cheetah, but I've learned a few phrases *

To view your historic personal bests, in Golden Cheetah select "Rides" then "CP / Critical Power."
http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=465038

In the top left corner of the Chart window, select "More..." and then "Date Range" = "All Dates."
http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=465039

Click "Done."

The chart will show your top power output for intervals from 1 second to 5+ hours. It'll also display a curve that will approximate your theoretical capacity at every interval, including 60 minutes = FTP. That'll be based on all the ride data you've imported into Golden Cheetah.
http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=465041

For those that know the concepts and the software better than I do, please weigh in with improvements on this guidance.

From Golden Cheetah wiki:

From my experience those are huge differences between AP & NP. I'm guessing it's because you are climbing hills with lots of power and then coasting downhill with near zero power. So your IF becomes pretty meaningless.

Ok, I will accept that possibly I have this wrong in my head based on my rather limited experience.

If riding an FTP test (which I actually also do very rarely), I am instructed to seek out constant conditions, which for me means I do them up a steady grade early in the am when the winds are light. I am very fortunate to have some long steady hills near my house that are appropriate for this. My first 40 min test had a NP 1 watt greater than AP. My second test, which was 2 twenty minute trials, was up this same hill. Trial 1 had NP again 1 watt greater than AP and for trial 2 NP = AP.

I've done the one 20k actual TT, which is a flat course, headwind out, tailwind back. I was instructed to ride an increasing power, which I did. NP again 1 watt greater than AP. Then I scouted a future 20k TT course, which is hilly. NP 2 watts greater than AP. Then I rode a 34 mile tri leg, flat course, no wind. Outbound leg NP 3 watts greater than AP, and on return leg NP was 2 watts greater than AP.

So I guess my personal experience is that if you're trying to be steady/smooth, NP and AP are effectively the same number.

I am told to ride these things very smooth and steady relative to my FTP. I'm to avoid power spikes because they put me too much in the red, too unsustainable. But my coach is very careful at telling me no more than I need to know at any given time. It will be interesting to see what instructions I get for a hilly course (I got no instructions for the TT scout) or in wind. I can't imagine I'm ever going to get instructed to be very uneven in power output though because so far its all been about riding really close to my FTP. I can be over but no more than 10%. Its a simple thing but hugely challenging, that's why I like it. :)

I'm not trying to argue with you, honest injun. But no. Your IF does not become meaningless, your IF still is a good indicator of training intensity. You don't understand this concept. 100% believe me when I tell you that I am not saying this to insult you or be mean to you. Its just that you are actually incorrect and you are going to be confusing people with what you are posting.

Then enlighten me. So far all you've done is to say that I'm wrong & when I ask for an explanation, you give none.

a) given a 40 minute FTP test, how do you calculate the NP for your best 20 minute segment within that test? I mean specifically, what software do you use, how do you configure it to determine the 20 minute NP power segment?

b) previously you said that with an IF of 1.2 this indicates that the FTP is too low. Now that you have an idea of what the AP is on this ride, and the fact that it was a hill repeat, what meaning can you glean from the figures given? How hard was the ride? YOu realize what the VI is right? Do you still think that the FTP is too low?

Sure.

a. I have no idea why you would want to ride a 40 minute test and then come up with a 20 min NP from that. Why do you keep suggesting that this is something someone would want to do? I don't understand the rationale behind this.

b. If I wanted to do this, I would highlight the 20 minutes of interest in WKO on my power graph and I would save that as a "range". The software then automatically calculates all kinds of parameters for any range I am interested in- AP and NP would be included.

c. It doesn't matter what the AP is. An IF of 1.2 is implausibly high for an everyday ride.

d. How hard was the ride? I can't tell that from the data. But from my experience, a ride of 1.2 would be very very hard. In fact, I have zero rides with an IF of 1.2. I'm sure I could do it, but it would be an extraordinary day.

e. Yes, I know what VI is.

f. As I've posted upthread, I still think the FTP is too low, for the reasons I explained upthread.

IF provides an estimate but it's far from perfect in measuring stress over the short term. I can go out any day and do a 1 hr sprint workout that will generate an IF of 1.0. That's enormously easier (and more enjoyable) than doing a 1 hr TT at 1.0 IF.

TSS/iF work better over the longer term as tools for measuring stress and fatigue.

I don't want to post hard power numbers because I didn't ride enough over the winter and spring, and I'm weak now, and you'll all make fun of me. Seriously, I've ridden over 8 mountain passes, up the highest paved road in my state, to the top of the road on Rainier and Baker, then Beth moved in in November, I've spent less time on the bike, and my power way low compared to how I feel about myself as a cyclist. :(

Right but are you routinely, day after day, doing workouts with an IF > 1? That is what Forrest is posting. Suggests FTP is too low.

I will 100% freely admit that my circumstance is possibly not the BF norm. I'm a woman, a master, I ride big events/volume and carry a high chronic training load (in the mid to upper 90s typically). I also am in California- hence no off season. So my training plan is designed to be sustainable for me. I may get assigned somewhat less intense rides than say a younger male crit racer who has a 6 month long racing season and less time available to ride than me.

But even considering all that, daily rides with an IF over 1 make no sense. Forrest, I'll pay you $20 to just go out and ride a good test, it would be more efficient probably than continuing to speculate.

For the record, the IF = 1.2 ride I mentioned was not an everyday ride by any means. It was kind of extraordinary (although I agree with you that I have too many too high IF rides in a row).

That day, there was an event downtown, the freeway and the surface streets were turned into parking lots, and it took me almost 90 minutes to drive 15 miles to get home. I arrived in a bad mood, so I went out and did sprints up hill until I was too tired to be upset anymore. On that ride, the TE was very high which means my heart was working overtime. (I find TE makes a pretty good proxy for RPE.)

I've been looking at this graph, but I thought it was based on the current ride. I didn't realize it included all of them. (Well, I changed it from two months to all like you suggested.)

Golden Cheetah says my FTP is about 15 % too low.

If you're ever in Seattle I owe you a drink.

Really? He gets a drink and I get nothing after multiple posts trying to explain this same thing to you?!

;)

I'd rather you send those $20 to the nearest Animal Shelter, or to a Search and Rescue outfit.

I'll take a test. I'm hesitant to, but I should probably get over that. I haven't taken one yet and I keep hearing it takes a few tries to get it right. I've only got so much time on the bike and I enjoy day-to-day riding a lot more. Sounds like the test is going to be a bit taxing, probably wipe me out for a day or two. Worst thing is I'm going to have to drive my bike somewhere to take it, away from traffic lights and whatnot.

Oh god, you and RChung and gregf83 and DaveWC have helped me more than I could ask for and I'm extremely grateful. Any/all of you get Indian from the best place in Seattle and a personal tour of our favorite roads.

TSS = (ride duration in hours) * IF^2 * 100

(ride duration in hours) = TSS/(IF^2 * 100) = 56/(1.45*100) = 0.38 hours = 23 minutes

In R I use
max(filter(filter(watts,rep(1/30,30))^4,rep(1/1200,1200))^0.25,na.rm=T)

In Excel I guess you could load watts into column A, put a 30-second running mean in column B, put the 4th power of the entries in column B into column C, put the 20-minute (1200 second) running mean of column C in column D, put the quartic root of column D in column E, and find the max of the entries in column E.

It's faster in R.

Yes, to ride a test, you need to go in somewhat rested, which means a few light days prior. However, the test will not wipe you out for a few days. I'll go out and do a decent ride the next day, like 45 miles/4000 ft climbing. A test or similar effort is accounted for in my overall training plan. But its just like doing any other good workout of around 125-150 TSS (including warm-up and cool down), very similar to a 2 hour lively group ride.

People do talk about tests being really hard to execute and I guess that I don't find them to be that hard. Before I was working with my coach and was clueless, I read about it and found lots of conflicting information so I wasn't exactly sure what to do, I tried one and it was windy and I picked the wrong stretch of road and it was a failure.

But I think my coach gave me something like 2 sentences of instruction before my first test and he assured me it was no big deal. Guess what? It wasn't. People talk about vomiting, getting dizzy, suffering and make it out to be more than it is. Maybe that's just me, but I kind of enjoy them now that I have the power meter, yeah I like just riding my bike like normal people but I also like watching the numbers evolve and having the discipline and concentration and self control to ride these TTs or tests correctly, that's a good cycling skill to have too, allows you to pace rides appropriately. Tomorrow I'm scouting a TT course and he wants me to ride it at race pace. Bring it on, it will be fun, no way do I dread that workout. Plus I can't tell you how invaluable that power file will be for pacing purposes come race day. I am riding a bit longer after the TT, up into the mountains for a few hours, totally looking forward to it, should be a great day on the bike. :)

I wouldn't go out of my way to do an FTP test. It's not going to make any real difference in how you train or ride and unless you're doing a TT and looking for some guidance on pacing it's not really necessary.

If you decide to do some intervals of whatever length the power you use for those intervals is easily adjusted using RPE, i.e. if you set a target for a set of intervals and it feels too easy, bump the target a few % next time out. Conversely, if it's too hard and you aren't able to complete a set of intervals you can lower the target a few %.

I usually get one real FTP test a year when we climb Mt Baker which is about a 1 hr climb. I'm not usually fresh when starting the climb but it's a beautiful location to do a 1 hr test :)

Hey, I pasted a picture!

I would take the 15% higher value as my new FTP and move on.

What is TE btw?

I have about 6 yrs of power data and ride about 500 hrs/yr fairly consistently. I just looked through my records and have about 6 rides with an IF over 1 ranging from 1.01 to 1.097. Pretty well all of them were a little over an hour doing hill repeats about 0:1:15 each repeat. So I agree Forrest's FTP is understated.

I did some sprints on the way home from work today and ended with an IF of .96 for 1:04:00. Might have been a little higher but did the first 15 min easy as I was planning this to be a recovery day but I was weak and decided to have some fun.

:)