kkapdolee

Hi,

It's my first post here!

I recently started getting into biking and upgraded from a Fuji Sportif 1.5 to a Kestrel Legend Shimano 105. I used to ride my Fuji with SPD mountain bike pedals instead of road bike pedals because I wanted to be able to walk on them without having to put covers on my shoes every time. A little research I did online says it's generally ok to use MTB pedals on road bikes. Is this true?

For my new bike, I talked to a guy at Performance Bike who highly recommended Speedplay (The guy says 75% of bikers on Tour de France use Speedplay. Not sure if that's true though...). I'm debating whether to stick to SPD mountain pedals or get Speedplay Frog or Syzr or zero aero with walkable cleats. The criteria that are important to me besides good entry and exit are,
1. need to be double sided
2. need to be walkable

So my questions are,
1. how are Speedplay pedals and cleats?
2. are they better than PD M540?
3. ok to use mountain pedals on road bikes?

Also, any opinions on Kestrel Legend Shimano 105?

Thanks for your help in advance.

datlas 

I say for now it's fine to stick with your SPD's. Especially if you are not having any hot spots.

There are lots of threads about different pedal systems. Bottom line is they all work. Each one may have something unique about it, but I would NOT rush in to getting new pedals right away. See if you can try some of them out too so you get a sense of how they engage/release.

KenshiBiker

1. Been using Speedplay X-Series since the 90s. I have no desire to ride any other road pedal.
2. I don't know what the PD MS-540 is; but I still believe the Speedplays are better.
3. Ride what you want and/or like. My buddy uses Shimano mountain pedals on his fixed gear and road bikes. He can kick my a$$ on the bike any day of the week and twice on Sundays (and he's not the only one).

RPK79

I use SPD's, this model to be exact:


I like them because the larger surface area allows for solid pedaling even if you don't get clipped in right away, and they could be used with regular shoes in a pinch.

dr_lha

I rode 2500 miles on SPDs last year, include a 102 mile ride. No issues, no hot foot.

Now I have Ultegra SPD-SL pedals, and I've been having more issues with my feet than I ever did with SPD.

Not saying that SPD is better than SPD-SL or any other pedal system, just saying that if you're happy with what you're riding on, don't feel forced to change because of fashion.

obed7

I have spd-sl on all my road bikes and spd on my cross bike...use what ever you like...nothing wrong with spd on a road bike...the guys who don't like them are not riding the bike, you are.

seymour1910

If it aint broke......

rms13

I would not consider Speedplay to be walkable. If you want walkable pedals/cleats you probably should stick with SPD or look at Crank Bros.

btw, Crank Bros Eggbeaters are 4 sided. That's twice as good as double sided

Secret Squirrel

"Walkable and Double sided" leads toward double sided SPD. Speedplay pedals and stiff cycling shoes are not considered walkable (For more than a few dozen yards) by the majority. I am sold on Speedplay pedals, but take my shoes off if I need to do any emergency walking. I have lost too many cleat covers at rest stops.

Jeremy_S

I've used spd, spd-sl, and look. For a road bike look is by far my favorite. The ease of clipping in seems best with look, not much over sl but a little easier, faster to locate. It's just one smooth unconscious movement. Spd were the hardest. Had to look down half the time. As far as walkable, it's not a running shoe but Saturday morning I had an epic moment of stoopid and ended up walking 4 miles in sidi genius 5's with look cleats and my legs didn't assplode and the cleats are still fine.

I frequently ride one of my bikes 5 miles to the gym in running shoes as well. Now I'm not pedaling 90 rpms but cruising to the gym 15mph in running shoes is not an issue.

kkapdolee

Thanks guys! I decided to stick to SPDs for now.

cale

OP, you wrote that the Performance folks got all excited about SpeedPlay pedals. That's hilarious! They are currently selling their house brand, Forte, road pedals for $32 with the alloy body (comes with cleats). (Shave less than 50 grams and you can get the Forte in carbon for $48). The Speedplay pedals are not part of the sale. If you're on the fence, you could get the Forte in alloy and try them out. I'm trying out a pair right now on my new road bike and in comparison to the carbon Ultegra pedals on my other bike they don't release as smoothly. Certainly not a definitive conclusion as the cleats and pedals are just breaking in. They still have a ton of float to allow for ergo ankle positioning.

Fastfwd01

I ordered some of these to go with whatever new bike I decide on Shimano PDA600 SPD pedal review | road.cc They are single sided. I'm not super hot for the color, but they look like a pretty decent deal for a lightweight SPD road pedal. I recently got a pair of Sidi Dominators because I too like to be able to walk in my shoes - who knows what might happen and I need to walk.

I'm curious how the single sided thing will go over. I'm sure I'll get accustomed to it.

Edit: I have Deore XT double sided pedals on my current bike and I've got no complaints with them.

sam_cyclist

Speedplay Frogs are superior to SPD's.

1. they are lighter

2. they allow free float to protect your knees

3. entry and exit are super easy. There is no spring, but the cleat is still super secure.

Having said that, I prefer zero's to frogs for road bikes.

The zero's offer a far greater range of adjustability (fore/aft, left/right, degrees of float can be adjusted also, unlike frogs)

In addition to that, I found the q factor for the frogs to be too narrow for a road crankset. You can change out the spindle in frogs but it's a hassle and very expensive.

You might look into crank bros. candy pedals as well. They have some free float (a lot less than frogs) and are walkable.

The SPD design sucks because of the lack of float. I won't use them, only designs with free float and there are plenty of them (speedplay, crank bros., look).

You're not locked into (pun intended) spd if you want a walkable cleat.


edit: the zero's are technically walkable cleats and you don't need to place a cleat cover on them every time: it's a one time deal.

kkapdolee

Thanks. Hmm... got me thinking about Speedplay Frogs again. Are they just as walkable as SPDs? Don't SPDs also have a small degree of float (6 degrees or sth) just not nearly as much as Speedplay?

What are some of the possible cons of Speedplay Frogs? I heard for the road versions, lot of maintenance is required. Is this true about frogs as well?

sam_cyclist

The spd and frog cleat are very close in walkability. The frog cleat is recessed but it will make contact with any surface you walk on. Walkable cleats/shoes are not designed ever to be used for long walking distances. They are designed primarily for riding.

The frogs clip in in a slightly different manner than spd's. You push down, but with your toe in/heel out SLIGHTLY. No one told me this, so I had to learn by trial and error. Once you realize this it's super easy, easier than spd's.

A slight disadvantage is that the frogs don't release with an inward heel rotation, only outward. However, that outward is extremely easy-- you don't need to work against spring tension, it literally just slides out. It's super secure when pedaling, but I found the ease of exit (when I wanted, not unintentionally) to be super easy, almost disconcertingly so!

The frog overall is a superior design, without question, but also far more expensive.

The spd's don't have true float. There is lateral movement, but you are always fighting against spring tension.

The speedplays offer true float, without the resistance of a spring (within the specified range of motion).

kkapdolee

Thanks, what about maintenance on the frogs? Do they require a lot or little or none compared to SPDs?

sam_cyclist

This claim is completely false with frogs, at least. The cleat is recessed, as is the case with spd's.

If you are referring to zero road cleats, then no, they are not designed to be walkable. You can walk on them for short distances, but you'll be waddling, rather than walking.

sam_cyclist

The speedplays require grease injections every few thousand miles. You use a grease gun to inject new grease, and wipe away the old. That's it!

Also, speedplay recommends you add dry lube occasionally to zero cleats, but it seems like you are interested in frog cleats, so that's not an issue.

mrblue

What kind of riding are you doing with the bike?

For commuting I like the Shimano M520 SPD's. For long bike rides (without lots of stopping and going) I like Look Keo Max 2. However, Speedplay seem pretty cool, though I've never actually tried them.

FrozenK

I rode Frogs both on and off road for about eight years. I wouldn't consider them superior to SPD. They are different and have some advantages and disadvantages vs SPD.

The float is nice, and is the reason I moved to Frogs from SPD. They do require relearning how to clip in, with Frogs you slide into the pedal rather than stepping in as you on all other clipless pedals. Then the free float can be disconcerting for some, as there is no spring tension holding you. And you can only release by twisting out. SPD will allow you to release by twisting in or out, and depending on the tension you have even yank the foot out by pulling out. Which brings us to a negative of the Frog system: in the event of a crash you will not clip out and can twist the knee and cause injury. Never happened to me, did happen to the wife of a friend.

Another negative is cleat wear. SPD cleats last forever. Seriously, you can put thousands upon thousands of miles on the nastiest conditions you can imagine and SPD cleats will laugh at it. Frog cleats will wear in 1000 miles or less if you ride them in muddy conditions (fine sand is the worst for Frog cleats) Once the cleats start to wear, release becomes easier which means becoming unclipped when you don't want to.

Durability wise, you will eventually wear out the plastic body of the Frogs but that will take years. Shimano pedals tend to be maintenance free and last as long as the cleats.

I would recommend staying away from Eggbeaters/Candy pedals. They are light and have some float, but they also fail. A lot. I've seen too many people walking with a broken Eggbeater pedal to trust them.

What I would recommend as an alternative for SPD if you want/need more float are Time Atac pedals. I made the switch this year and I'm quite pleased. They don't have as much float as the Frogs, but it is enough and the cleats will last a lot longer than Frogs. Weight and price are comparable.

sam_cyclist

I'm not quite sure what you mean by "slide in." I step in, straight down, with the heel slightly outward. The step in motion is quite simple, once you learn the trick. I tried clipping in toe first, foot straight at first. I didn't know what i was doing wrong so I tried moving the heel in and out and finally discovered that a slightly outward heel is required to engage the cleat.

I have not read many negative comments about frog cleat's durability. However, OP is riding on the road, so I doubt excessive wear will be a problem. I am considering adding some shims around the cleat to protect them wear, however.

I have no interest in spd, even if they last a gazillion miles. They don't have any free float and I stay away from them for that reason.

As far as atac pedals, they have less float than frogs and are also spring centered IIRC. Frog pedals OTOH have a lot of float, and no spring tension. Your knees and feet align exactly where they want to.

No other pedal on the market offer as much free float. If OP has any knee issues at all, I recommend speedplay.

Alas, the q factor is too narrow for me with a road double, but is just fine for a mtb triple.

I honestly recommend the speedplay zero's for OP. They are just a far superior pedal in just about every way for road riding. Slap on a pair of covers and you can waddle to your heart's content.

The only advantage of frogs over zero's is that clip in and out are incredibly easy. Zero's require far more force both in and out. I solved that problem to a large extent with multiple in/outs prior to my first few rides to get the cleats worn in a bit. In/out required a lot of pressure initially, but it's an acceptable level now.

It seems you imply that frogs are potentially more dangerous for your knees in the event of a crash. I would assert that spd's are more dangerous for your knees in the event of misalignment during a ride. Since one spends far more time riding than crashing (I would hope) spd's represent a far greater "danger" to your knees than the frogs.

SPD's are popular primarily due to shimano's overwhelming advantage in marketing.

I can honestly say that I have zero interest in shimano clipless. None of them have true free float.

As far as shimano's "zero maintenance" requirement is concerned, it's a very minor advantage. Speedplay only requires fresh grease every few thousand miles.


As far as crank bros. they do have a reputation for being less than completely reliable. However, they are very inexpensive and may offer an introduction to pedals with free float. They only have 6 degrees, but still it's not spring centered like shimano.

An additional point in favor of the zero's: they pair with road shoes, so the shoe/pedal combo can be both lighter and stiffer.

kkapdolee

Are you familiar with these Zero Aero Walkable cleats?

SPEEDPLAY : Zero Aero Walkable? Cleat Technology

Would you recommend these over the Frogs?

sam_cyclist

Very nice find. I do not have any experience with the aero's personally.

However, they may solve the issue of walkability for you, while giving you all of the adjustability of the standard speedplay zero's.

The concerns with frogs for me were as follows (for road use)

1. q factor: the stance felt too narrow with a road double
2. lack of adjustability of the cleat left to right (see no. 1)
3. frog cleats are designed for mtn bike shoes, hence adding weight

Therefore, the aero cleat should address all of the above, while allowing you to walk.

Keep in mind that no cycling specific shoe will allow you to walk comfortably over any distance. I tried using shimano shoes strictly as walking shoes (no cleats installed), and the stiffness of the shoe just made it a no go.

I recommend you choose your shoes and cleats for their intended purpose, which is road riding.

FrozenK

It is easier to slife your foot forward into the pedal (that is why the front stopper has an elastomer underneath it) than trying to align the tabs and step down. But it is a completely different motion than what you'd do with any other pedal.

As for time spent crashing, it doesn't matter if it is a milisecond a year, your knee will still be torn up for .onths. While the Frogs have advantages and the free float is nice (and unique) they have some negative aspects. I'm pointing the ones I found to the OP. Cleat wear and durability may not be an issue to you, but they may be to him.

As for Time Atacs, they have both angular and lateral float. That combination produces a feel similar to the Frogs. You do have to defeat the spring tension to release, though. Some mountain/commuter shoes are truly walkable but you do give up sole stiffness.