Reynolds vs Williams vs Boyd carbon wheels for ~$1K
#26
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Yes, I'm guilty of helping to derail this thread. Can we please get it back on topic for the OP's sake? Thanks.
#27
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I can say I've had a set of Boyd tubulars for 2 years with no problems. They are not my everyday, primary wheelset but have been used probably 1.5k per year.
#28
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Just a little feedback from a potential customer..
I think we all understand that you have a business to run and have seemingly done a good job of making an extraordinarily expensive product more affordable. You seem open, honest and despite being fairly new as a company, also seem to have a good reputation. Eating the cost for a product that is out of warranty is hard to do, and in no way are you obligated to do so.
Even with that being said, you sold the wheel with a two year warranty, not a two year life expectancy. When I see a wheel with a Boyd sticker on it that delaminated from what the owner calls normal use, I see a product that wasn't properly designed or tested.
If I was the original customer and your product had failed me, I wouldn't send you more money to make it right. I would consider it an expensive lesson and warn others just like the person who posted the picture of the damaged rim.
Saying your new wheels are better and then bragging on them, IMO is in bad taste. You were able to make your new stuff better because of the money that came in from the people who took a leap of faith on your old stuff. You may be ok with your "old" wheels being disposable to some of your customers, but the early adopters who helped get you off the ground shouldn't be disposable to your company.
Again, this is just my opinion, and I may very well be in the minority here.
I think we all understand that you have a business to run and have seemingly done a good job of making an extraordinarily expensive product more affordable. You seem open, honest and despite being fairly new as a company, also seem to have a good reputation. Eating the cost for a product that is out of warranty is hard to do, and in no way are you obligated to do so.
Even with that being said, you sold the wheel with a two year warranty, not a two year life expectancy. When I see a wheel with a Boyd sticker on it that delaminated from what the owner calls normal use, I see a product that wasn't properly designed or tested.
If I was the original customer and your product had failed me, I wouldn't send you more money to make it right. I would consider it an expensive lesson and warn others just like the person who posted the picture of the damaged rim.
Saying your new wheels are better and then bragging on them, IMO is in bad taste. You were able to make your new stuff better because of the money that came in from the people who took a leap of faith on your old stuff. You may be ok with your "old" wheels being disposable to some of your customers, but the early adopters who helped get you off the ground shouldn't be disposable to your company.
Again, this is just my opinion, and I may very well be in the minority here.
I was offered the discount on a new set of Boyds but decided against it. I just didn't want to go through this again. Maybe his new wheels are new and improved. Maybe his 2012 wheels are good but I just ended up with a defective set. Who knows. There is no question about it that carbon is getting better as we move forward. My posting is to let you know that nothing is guaranteed. It's buyer beware.
Personally, when it comes to full carbon wheels, I am just going to purchase the big name products and pay the price. Less money in my pocket but less frustration to deal with. Well worth it to me.
#29
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I'm looking at carbon wheels in ~1K price range and Reynolds, Williams and Boyd has come up in my research. Does anyone have feedback on these wheels? How do they compare to more expensive brands from Mavic and Zipp?
I assume Reynolds, Williams and Boyd wheels are all made in China but they may put the wheel together in the US. I'm a little wary of buying the no-name carbon wheels from China, as I don't know what quality control they have even though they may come out of the same factories.
I assume Reynolds, Williams and Boyd wheels are all made in China but they may put the wheel together in the US. I'm a little wary of buying the no-name carbon wheels from China, as I don't know what quality control they have even though they may come out of the same factories.
#30
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You were able to make your new stuff better because of the money that came in from the people who took a leap of faith on your old stuff. You may be ok with your "old" wheels being disposable to some of your customers, but the early adopters who helped get you off the ground shouldn't be disposable to your company.
Again, this is just my opinion, and I may very well be in the minority here.
Again, this is just my opinion, and I may very well be in the minority here.
Both Reynolds and the earlier Zipps had problems in the past and like what you said they produce the "newest" and "greatest" at the expense of the buyers who bought their earlier models.
Unfortunately, I do not know of any wheel company out there that will just exchange a defective product well over their warranty life. It's a big ask for the company and surely like what Boyd said, some people will abuse it.
#31
wears long socks
To some extent I do agree with some things that you said and raised some good points, but this bolded bit I quoted pretty much sums up everything in the bicycle carbon wheel market.
Both Reynolds and the earlier Zipps had problems in the past and like what you said they produce the "newest" and "greatest" at the expense of the buyers who bought their earlier models.
Unfortunately, I do not know of any wheel company out there that will just exchange a defective product well over their warranty life. It's a big ask for the company and surely like what Boyd said, some people will abuse it.
Both Reynolds and the earlier Zipps had problems in the past and like what you said they produce the "newest" and "greatest" at the expense of the buyers who bought their earlier models.
Unfortunately, I do not know of any wheel company out there that will just exchange a defective product well over their warranty life. It's a big ask for the company and surely like what Boyd said, some people will abuse it.
I'm aware other companies have had past problems. I paid $1 a mile to ride Zipp 404s.
I'm not bashing Boyd. Like I said he seems like one of the most honest out there. I'm just throwing my opinion out there for him to see. If he doesn't agree, I'm not upset.
#32
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He said put into service in mid 2013 not bought then. The warranty starts from date of purchase. While I would be pissed if that happened so close to the end of the warranty period I would understand. I would probably take him up on the discounted replacement set. I don't upgrade just for the sake of upgrading. Im still on a CAAD9.
#33
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He said put into service in mid 2013 not bought then. The warranty starts from date of purchase. While I would be pissed if that happened so close to the end of the warranty period I would understand. I would probably take him up on the discounted replacement set. I don't upgrade just for the sake of upgrading. Im still on a CAAD9.
To sum this up, all products have a defective failure rate. Some higher than others. That's why we have product recalls.
I never requested nor expected a new replacement wheelset. As a matter of fact, the problem was with only one of the wheels. I explained my situation to Boyd and was just waiting to hear what type of solutions existed. All I got was the sales pitch for the new wheelset with a discount. In a follow up email, I explained that I wasn't interested in a wheelset since I only needed one wheel but also brought up the point that the Zipps I had were from the same year/era with twice the mileage and used extensively on climbs and descents. My question was how can this be? Was Boyd using inferior carbon? Was there a bad batch of his wheels that he was hush about? Do you know what his response was.....? Nothing. He never responded back. That said a lot right there.
Back in 2002, I purchased a set of Ritchey WCS DS wheels. It was one of their top offerings at that time. A couple of years later, there were some hairline cracks around one of the nipples on the back wheel. The warranty already expired. Ritchey had me send them the wheel. Three weeks later, a new wheel arrived along with a free set of their titanium skewers. Total cost: $23 in shipping. That's customer service.
All Boyd had to do here was have me send the wheel back for examination. He clearly would have seen that it was a low mileage wheel and something was defective. He could have laced the hub up to an old stock hoop that he has lying around or even a used one. I would have paid up to $200 for parts and labor which seems fair.
In conclusion, I believe Boyd has a good product. If not, he would have been out of business years ago. I just think he needs to look at these types of situations more carefully. Maybe even offer prorated warranties.
Not every transaction is going to be highly profitable from the monetary standpoint. But it can be very profitable from the reputation standpoint. I think he missed it here.
Last edited by Bob Steel; 09-28-15 at 02:57 PM.
#34
Formerly edwardmatt83
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Purchased and put into service mid 2013. And keep your CAAD9. Just as good as the CAAD10 or 12.
To sum this up, all products have a defective failure rate. Some higher than others. That's why we have product recalls.
I never requested nor expected a new replacement wheelset. As a matter of fact, the problem was with only one of the wheels. I explained my situation to Boyd and was just waiting to hear what type of solutions existed. All I got was the sales pitch for the new wheelset with a discount. In a follow up email, I explained that I wasn't interested in a wheelset since I only needed one wheel but also brought up the point that the Zipps I had were from the same year/era with twice the mileage and used extensively on climbs and descents. My question was how can this be? Was Boyd using inferior carbon? Was there a bad batch of his wheels that he was hush about? Do you know what his response was.....? Nothing. He never responded back. That said a lot right there.
Back in 2002, I purchased a set of Ritchey WCS DS wheels. It was one of their top offerings at that time. A couple of years later, there were some hairline cracks around one of the nipples on the back wheel. The warranty already expired. Ritchey had me send them the wheel. Three weeks later, a new wheel arrived along with a free set of their titanium skewers. Total cost: $23 in shipping. That's customer service.
All Boyd had to do here was have me send the wheel back for examination. He clearly would have seen that it was a low mileage wheel and something was defective. He could have laced the hub up to an old stock hoop that he has lying around or even a used one. I would have paid up to $200 for parts and labor which seems fair.
In conclusion, I believe Boyd has a good product. If not, he would have been out of business years ago. I just think he needs to look at these types of situations more carefully. Maybe even offer pro-rated warranties.
Not every transaction is going to be highly profitable from the monetary standpoint. But it can be very profitable from the reputation standpoint. I think he missed it here.
To sum this up, all products have a defective failure rate. Some higher than others. That's why we have product recalls.
I never requested nor expected a new replacement wheelset. As a matter of fact, the problem was with only one of the wheels. I explained my situation to Boyd and was just waiting to hear what type of solutions existed. All I got was the sales pitch for the new wheelset with a discount. In a follow up email, I explained that I wasn't interested in a wheelset since I only needed one wheel but also brought up the point that the Zipps I had were from the same year/era with twice the mileage and used extensively on climbs and descents. My question was how can this be? Was Boyd using inferior carbon? Was there a bad batch of his wheels that he was hush about? Do you know what his response was.....? Nothing. He never responded back. That said a lot right there.
Back in 2002, I purchased a set of Ritchey WCS DS wheels. It was one of their top offerings at that time. A couple of years later, there were some hairline cracks around one of the nipples on the back wheel. The warranty already expired. Ritchey had me send them the wheel. Three weeks later, a new wheel arrived along with a free set of their titanium skewers. Total cost: $23 in shipping. That's customer service.
All Boyd had to do here was have me send the wheel back for examination. He clearly would have seen that it was a low mileage wheel and something was defective. He could have laced the hub up to an old stock hoop that he has lying around or even a used one. I would have paid up to $200 for parts and labor which seems fair.
In conclusion, I believe Boyd has a good product. If not, he would have been out of business years ago. I just think he needs to look at these types of situations more carefully. Maybe even offer pro-rated warranties.
Not every transaction is going to be highly profitable from the monetary standpoint. But it can be very profitable from the reputation standpoint. I think he missed it here.
Are you done complaining yet?
#35
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Need a fix?
Do you ride gravel on occasion? I had those same delam issues with Reynolds Assaults. It was my fault due to the terrain I choose. The bike paths in San Diego will do a number on carbon. Sand, dirt, sea salt, moisture are not carbon friendly.
Fortunately, there is a guy in San Diego near the convention center that specializes in carbon brake track repair. His main business is fiberglass repairs on boats and surfboards. He works on bike wheels as more of a hobby. It’s brake track restoration only. Hub or spoke issues? Forget it. Cost is $75 per wheel. You pay one way shipping.
I thought my wheels were toast after that Belgian Waffle ride in North San Diego County earlier this year. Ron took care of this in less than two weeks. It’s been about 1000 miles and no chipping, cracking or peeling. All wheel manufacturers and resellers will say this is impossible. It can’t be done, it’s not safe. Bullcrap. They just want you to buy a new set of their wheels.
Let me know if you’re interested and I’ll post contact information.
#36
Blast from the Past
So anyone riding Williams? I'm interested in the System 58 or the mixed 58/85's. I've been on a set of their newer alloy rims (31's) this season, nice wheels.
#37
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Generally well reviewed. I have a set of 38 carbon clinchers (from 3 years ago) which I am pleased with.
#38
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#39
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I have a set of 58 clinchers. They roll like the business. First time I raced them I bridged up to a group of four and intended to latch on the back but had to brake because I was going to overshoot them. I took some getting used to them in a crosswind but that's the case with a lot of deep rim wheels.
#40
Blast from the Past
I have a set of 58 clinchers. They roll like the business. First time I raced them I bridged up to a group of four and intended to latch on the back but had to brake because I was going to overshoot them. I took some getting used to them in a crosswind but that's the case with a lot of deep rim wheels.
What tire are you running on them? And how is the clearance on the Excal?
#41
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This season I had Vittoria CX II in 25mm. Really supple, very round, but a little soft. I would call these race only tires, lots of nicks. They fit the frame fine, but they were a close squeeze on the brake calipers, so that could possibly be an issue. Right now I have Michelin Pro4 Service Courses 25mm on them. Also fit fine, nice tires and a little tougher.
#42
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I recommend Boyd's wheels. I bought a set of 44mm clinchers almost a year ago and they are great. They are smooth, roll well, climb and handle side winds very well. Will be upgrading to the new version 44mm clinchers and the 28mm clinchers hopefully next year.
#43
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I'm looking at carbon wheels in ~1K price range and Reynolds, Williams and Boyd has come up in my research. Does anyone have feedback on these wheels? How do they compare to more expensive brands from Mavic and Zipp?
I assume Reynolds, Williams and Boyd wheels are all made in China but they may put the wheel together in the US. I'm a little wary of buying the no-name carbon wheels from China, as I don't know what quality control they have even though they may come out of the same factories.
I assume Reynolds, Williams and Boyd wheels are all made in China but they may put the wheel together in the US. I'm a little wary of buying the no-name carbon wheels from China, as I don't know what quality control they have even though they may come out of the same factories.
I had Boyd Vitesse (aluminum) $500, about 4k miles no single issue, sold them for $200.
Both offer one of the best customer service