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CAAD12: Is the rim version just an afterthought?

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CAAD12: Is the rim version just an afterthought?

Old 09-06-15, 10:48 PM
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mraeryceos
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CAAD12: Is the rim version just an afterthought?

Did they put their R&D into the disc design of the CAAD12, and only make a few afterthought changes to also have a rim version? Could they have made a much better rim version frame?
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Old 09-06-15, 10:56 PM
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I think it would be impossible not to.
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Old 09-06-15, 10:57 PM
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I'm struggling to imagine what sort of answer could possibly satisfy this nonsense question, and who could provide it.
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Old 09-06-15, 11:08 PM
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"With the CAAD 12—Cannondale skipped 11 because it felt there was “too much goodness” to just go one higher—the bar has been raised again."


there's you're answer op
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Old 09-06-15, 11:14 PM
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Originally Posted by TobinH View Post
I'm struggling to imagine what sort of answer could possibly satisfy this nonsense question, and who could provide it.
You know, I was just thinking of the person who could answer this question and guess what, they answered it right after your post
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Old 09-06-15, 11:24 PM
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I guess the answer could be found just by looking at the chain-stays and seat-stays. Are they shaped very differently for the disc and rim frames? If so, then they were designed distinctly.
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Old 09-06-15, 11:35 PM
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Depends on the frame weight difference. The mounting posts for the discs probably add about 20g, so if the frames are within that range they are likely identical.

Having said that, there's no reason why discs and rim brakes should require significantly different designs. The main stresses are from pedaling and bumps, and not braking. The forks should have significant differences, but not the frame.
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Old 09-06-15, 11:42 PM
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The stress at the disc brake mounting points will be very significant under braking, and require a beefier chain stay. If the rim version design also has the same beefy chain stay, that would be a total cop-out.
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Old 09-07-15, 05:09 AM
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The disc version actually weighs less than the rim brake version, I want one! These weights are compared to the Caad10.

Last edited by dvdslw; 09-07-15 at 05:19 AM.
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Old 09-07-15, 07:29 AM
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Originally Posted by dvdslw View Post
The disc version actually weighs less than the rim brake version, I want one! These weights are compared to the Caad10.
There's some kind of witchcraft going on there... the 41 brain trust has declared that to be impossible.
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Old 09-07-15, 07:32 AM
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Originally Posted by dvdslw View Post
The disc version actually weighs less than the rim brake version, I want one! These weights are compared to the Caad10.
I'm not following the math on that. How is the "savings" so much more for the disc ?
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Old 09-07-15, 07:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Homebrew01 View Post
I'm not following the math on that. How is the "savings" so much more for the disc ?
I'm guessing that's compared to the CAAD 10 disc version.
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Old 09-07-15, 09:00 AM
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Originally Posted by smarkinson View Post
You know, I was just thinking of the person who could answer this question and guess what, they answered it right after your post
No they didnt. Reading comprehension fail
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Old 09-07-15, 09:29 AM
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Originally Posted by dvdslw View Post
The disc version actually weighs less than the rim brake version, I want one! These weights are compared to the Caad10.
Should be clear that the disc frame and fork are lighter than the rim brake version, and of course it isn't by much. The real take-away is that they're basically the same weight. In the complete bikes, it's not necessarily easy to compare like to like, but it's still going to be easier to build a lighter complete bike with rim brakes. Still, bringing the frame weights together is a pretty big deal and is going to make the difference in weight a lot smaller.

Originally Posted by Bathwater View Post
I'm guessing that's compared to the CAAD 10 disc version.
Correct.
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Old 09-07-15, 06:38 PM
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I had written down the build weights (in pounds) as follows (I may have rounded when converting from kg):
Caad12 disc 105: 19.11
Caad12 rim 105: 18.06
caad10 5 105: 18.07
caad12 disc ultegra: 18.76
caad12 rim ultegra: 16.51 (supersix evo ultegra: 15.19)
caad10 3 ultegra: 17.2
caad10 disc rival: 18.96
caad12 disc dura-ace: 18.01
caad12 black (rim) : 14.86
slate: 21.87

ALR 5: 18.77
ALR 6: 17.25
ALR frame: 989 (grams)

Last edited by black_box; 09-07-15 at 10:06 PM.
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Old 09-07-15, 06:42 PM
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Wow, so the disc versions are 1-4 lbs heavier than the rim versions, just like the 41 predicted. Mind blown!
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Old 09-07-15, 08:18 PM
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Originally Posted by mraeryceos View Post
The stress at the disc brake mounting points will be very significant under braking, and require a beefier chain stay. If the rim version design also has the same beefy chain stay, that would be a total cop-out.
You can't generate any significant braking force on the rear wheel due to weight transfer. And the chain stay is automatically beefy enough to not crumple when a 200 lbs rider hits a pothole. The shock load from that impact through the rear wheel will be orders of magnitude higher than any braking torques. The rear caliper is also mounted basically at the axle, so its a very stout place. The front fork mount is obviously different, and you'll notice Cannondale conveniently didn't mention the difference in fork weight. Enve 2.0 forks the disc version is 85g heavier.
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Old 09-07-15, 09:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Jiggle View Post
Wow, so the disc versions are 1-4 lbs heavier than the rim versions, just like the 41 predicted. Mind blown!
Those four lbs are worth in when you make five mile descents or ride in monsoons
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Old 09-07-15, 09:51 PM
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Originally Posted by gsa103 View Post
Originally Posted by mraerycoes
The stress at the disc brake mounting points will be very significant under braking, and require a beefier chain stay. If the rim version design also has the same beefy chain stay, that would be a total cop-out.
You can't generate any significant braking force on the rear wheel due to weight transfer. And the chain stay is automatically beefy enough to not crumple when a 200 lbs rider hits a pothole. The shock load from that impact through the rear wheel will be orders of magnitude higher than any braking torques. The rear caliper is also mounted basically at the axle, so its a very stout place. The front fork mount is obviously different, and you'll notice Cannondale conveniently didn't mention the difference in fork weight. Enve 2.0 forks the disc version is 85g heavier.
The force from an impact on a pothole, is different from the torque from wheel braking. The optimal chain stay design would be different for both, and it is my opinion, that it would need to be reinforced and heavier for the disc brake mounts. Good point about the weight transfer, but you can still put considerable torque if you lean your weight back, as you should under heavy braking.
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Old 09-07-15, 10:03 PM
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Originally Posted by dvdslw View Post
The disc version actually weighs less than the rim brake version, I want one!
brake bridge weighs 4 grams more than brake mounts.
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