dtrain

Between 4700 and 5800? (Besides one gear and 'build quality' ), I'm guessing: overall weight, an older and less advanced brake caliper/pad design, and slightly cheaper materials in places. Ain't much...but neither is the 26% ($75) 'premium' for 5800.

PepeM

I see. Don't really care much for small weight differences. As for the extra gear, I do not know honestly. Better brakes are always a positive, but I guess I would have to try to see if they are actually any better. I do agree that for the price difference you might be better off going for the higher end model, 'just to be sure.'

dtrain

Here's a visual on the brakes. Tiagra uses a one-piece block (rather than holder and pad) and an older design. The 5800 105 looks identical to the 9000 and 6800 versions.

nemeseri

Very interesting, I thought that it's gonna have exactly the same hood design as the 5700. Can you confirm that it's the same as the 5800/6800 hood?

dtrain

Yes, Tiagra totally skipped being modeled after 5700/6700. The outgoing 4600 version more closely resembles 6600/5600. The ready-to-launch 4700 is modeled after 5800/6800 (besides the calipers).

cale

Yes, you would if you were me.

dr_lha

The brakes are not the same design as 5800 or 6800, which is a really excellent design. Instead they look more like 5700 brakes. That's the only major difference I see other than the obvious 10 vs 11 speed.

dr_lha

Not entirely true. The 4600 Rear Derailleur is the same design as the 5700/6700 one.

dtrain

I was responding to a question about the hoods/STI's when I wrote that, so that's mostly what I was referring to. But, yes, I suppose I generalized a bit too far. Do you know what would happen if you ran 4700 shifters with a 4600 RD?

Arrowana

One difference I noticed is the 4700 levers are some sort of plastic instead of aluminum, and the shifting is a tiny bit less crisp than 5800. It's still quite nice and sturdy, though I much prefer the thought of having metal brake levers over plastic.

Jeremy_S

This may be blasphemy to people with sensitive palms or smaller hands, but I can't tell a difference in 5700/5800 hoods. My Podium was a 105 bike, I changed the setup to 11 speed but left the front derailuer because it's not my primary bike anymore and I scored the 11 speed read parts for a steal and didn't want to sink anymore money into it. I have a 5800 right hood and 5700 left hood and I've never thought for a second that the feel was different between the two. I have big hands and I've worked with them all my adult life though so they're scarred and mangled and I don't notice much haha.

I looked at her bike and my 6800 bike though and the hoods look identical in shape.

dr_lha

To be fair the 6800 ones are plastic too! Well, "carbon fiber" but we all know that basically means plastic right?

12strings

I recently test rode a Specialized Diverge with the new tiagra. I was very impressed with both the front shifting and the feel of the hoods and levers....especially considering that I test rode a cannondale with the older tiagra earilier this year, and really WASN'T impressed...I fact I ended up buying a bike with Sora because I saw no advantage going to tiagra at that time.

While I would agree that for someone upgrading their groupset, taking tiagra instead of 105 doesn't seem worth the savings....I think we WILL see more tiagra-equipped new bikes being sold, since the price difference between a tiagra and 105 bike will likely be several hundred dollars...enough for some people to take the less expensive option.

thin_concrete

I have the new Tiagra 4700 on my Domane and Ultegra 6800 on my Marvel and they are more similar than I expected. The Tiagra is not as crisp a shift and is louder, and the hoods/lever don't feel as "solid" as the Ultegra.

RedVVing19

because the cost of 4700 - 5800 is so little the only reason I would choose 4700 is for the triple crank option

rms13

The other reason to choose 4700 as an upgrade is if you have wheels that are only 10 speed compatible and don't want the additional cost of buying new wheels

dtrain

+1. That rear hub is the biggest hurdle to an 11-speed upgrade for lots of people.

noodle soup

Unless you ride Campagnolo

dtrain

Oh right --- if Campy, then the price is the biggest hurdle.

RollCNY

If the only deficient part of the 4700 group is the brakeset, would that not suggest that this is an excellent choice for disc and canti applications?

sleepy

I wonder if you can use an older shimano derailleur/mtb derailleur with the new shifters. Put on a 36 tooth sprocket?

dtrain

I don't think so because of a different cable pull ratio. However, there is a 'GS' 4700 RD that's officially rated to 32t and probably could handle 34t.

rms13

With the option for a triple do you need a 36t?

sleepy

Rather a 36 than a triple.

TRi_Crinale

So a couple answers to floating questions in this thread (I just did some tests on Tiagra 4700 in my shop):

- It is not compatible in any way with older 10 speed systems (both derailleurs use different pull ratio)
- It IS (completely, 100%) compatible with 11 speed derailleurs. I put a 6800 derailleur onto a Trek ALR 4 (full 4700) and it shifted super clean.
- You cannot install a mountain derailleur (not compatible with prior 8-10sp) BUT, the GS (mid cage) derailleur is rated by shimano to officially accept a 34 tooth cassette, so with some B tension adjustments I'd guess you could probably make a 36t work if that's what you really want.

I have pictures and video on my phone of the 6800 der working on the full 4700 bike that I'll upload when I get home from work.