RollCNY

Welcome to Bike Forums. This statement is not exactly true. Where it may be incompatible with derailleurs, it is fully compatible with 10 speed cassettes, chains, and cranksets, all of which are readily available at discount to the current same tier 11 speed stuff. A ten speed system has a broad wealth of cassettes to choose from SRAM and Shimano, without being limited to the 4 or 5 Tiara 4700 models, much like modern Sora shifters can be paired with 9 speed Ultegra cassettes as a nice low cost improvement.

CeeDotA

Just installed 4700 on my wife's bike. Feels just like the 5800 on my bike, save for one less gear.

dtrain

Yup, I'm sure his statement was focused on derailleurs...but it's worth clarifying for all who might read this. The braking cable ratio (super SLR, or whatever) didn't change either. 4600/5700 calipers would work just fine with 4700 levers; and most any 10 speed cassette/chain would work; but those derailleurs need to be based on the newer cable pull ratio (4700/5800/6800/9000).

Thanks again for checking this out, TRi_Crinale.

fstshrk

I thought the 4703 triple levers were the old pull ratio?

noodle soup

I have not seen the triple specific front derailleur, but it is clear that the double front derailleur uses the new pull ratio. Is there a triple front derailleur for 4700?

dtrain

Good question/catch. That might be for the 4703 (triple) front FD and STI. The top 'arm' on those triple FDs is quite a bit shorter.


vs.:

noodle soup

After seeing those photos, I suspect the 4703 shifters will work with all 10spd Shimano road groupsets. This is a very good thing.

dtrain

I think they might work with other 10 speed front derailleurs...I wouldn't say groupsets.

noodle soup

Whatever.


tomato/tomahto

fstshrk

I think they will work to replace an aging 5700 groupset.

dtrain

Yeah, I agree. You'd want a 4700 or Shimano 11sp RD. FD as well if going with a double...

deepakvrao

Old thread, but wanted some info. Planning on putting this on a touring bike. If I need a 36 at the back, will the Tiagra 4703 shifters work with 9 speed or 10 speed MTB Rds?

dr_lha

No. It's not compatible, different cable pull.

deepakvrao

Thanks. So can I run a 34 with a triple? It is specced upto 34 with a compact and only 32 with a triple. Why this limitation, and is it something you can get around?

dr_lha

Capacity limitations. If you try to run a triple with a 34T rear cog, likelihood is that in low gears the derailleur won't be able to tension the chain enough to stop the chain from sagging. For that reason 34T is not recommended for a triple. Will it work? Probably, as long as you avoid small-small gears like 30-11.

FYI: Capacity needed for 11-34 and a 4700 triple = 50-30 + 34-11 = 43T. Capacity limit for a GS 4700 derailleur = 41T.

deepakvrao

Thanks again.

I was thinking of the 5700 triple, but from all I've read the new Tiagra is better than the old 105? So, I think I'll go with that for my tourer. I'll stick to a 32 at the back, and try and get my wife a 34 if it works.

dr_lha

So they say, I've never used it. I've used 6800 and if it's close to that, it'll be great.

I have used 5700 and it's good stuff (although not as good as 6800), but as a bonus, it will drive a 9-speed (though not 10-speed) Shimano MTB rear derailleur. EDIT: I should make it clear, a 9-speed MTB rear derailleur will index to 10 gears with a 5700 shifter.

deepakvrao

I have Ultegra 6700 on my Pinarello, and I have faced no shifting issues, but everyone says that the 5800, 6800, AND the 4700 have better cable routing. I'm tempted to ditch the MTB RD and go 4700 instead of 5700.

AkselJensen

Old thread, I just wanted to post some calculations that I did regarding cable pull for the ST-4700. Shimano road specific data ahead. The Interwebs inform me that pre-10-speed rear derailleur ratio was 1.7 (this is also true for MTB parts). pre-4700 10-speed derailleurs also had a 1.7 ratio (no longer true for MTB parts). 11-speed Shimano rear derailleurs (and now the RD-4700 10-speed derailleurs to confuse matters - but not MTB parts) have a ratio of 1.4. Let's use the pre-4700 10-speed road derailleurs as a reference: The shifters pull 2.3 mm cable for each gear. The derailleur ratio is 1.7. This yields a 3,91 mm (2.3 mm * 1.7) cog pitch. Close enough. The cog pitch is the same for ST-4700 (10-speed cassettes are still interchangeable even accross to MTB - the cog pitch is the same at least), but the derailleur ratio is 1.4 like the 11-speed derailleurs as mentioned. Now we can calculate the cable pull for the ST-4700 shifters: cog pitch divided by ratio yields around 2.8 mm (3.91 mm / 1.4). Interestingly this is exactly the same as (or very close to) the 8-speed shifters' cable pull.

This means that you could use the ST-4700 shifters with an otherwise complete 8-speed group, except you would obviously have 2 spare clicks. Anyone up for testing this?

I call RD-4700 an 11-speed derailleur, and ST-4700 a hybrid shifter that allows you to use 11-speed derailleurs with 10-speed cassettes. I'm not going into the hydraulic brake options that's just too weird. OK I will. There's a Tiagra level hydraulic brake/shifter combo (ST-RS405) that comes with flat mount caliper's. That's of no use if you pick Tiagra for backwards compatibility because you can't mount flat-mount calipers on older post mount frames/forks. Argh.

keyboardologist

I don't get it. Since the ST-4700 "hybrid" shifter has the same cable pull like the new 11-sp R7000, R8000 shifters, why won't drive an 11-sp cassette if used with an 11sp RD?

Iride01 

one less click on the shifter. 11 speed shifter, 10 clicks. 10 speed shifter 9 clicks.

keyboardologist

Thank you Iride01 for both thread answers!
So if I want to upgrade to 11sp, I will have to start now with 11-sp shifters.

Grasschopper

That's correct. Also, it may have been said in this thread already but you can't use the 4700 shifters with older Shimano 10 speed rear derailleurs as the cable pull isn't the same. You CAN however mix 4700 shifters with 105, Ultegra and DA 11 speed derailleurs. They will shift the 10 speed cassette properly with the 4700 shifters.

Dr_UNIX

You're confusing cable pull RATIO with cable pull DISTANCE.
4700/R7000/R8000 shifters and rear derailleurs have the same cable pull ratio. Cable pull ratio is all that matters to a rear derailleur. If the cable is pulled 1mm, the RD will move laterally X.Y mm.

It is the shifters that move Z mm of cable [pull distance] expecting the RD to move X.Y mm based on the cable pull ratio the shifters are designed for.

AkselJensen

But that's just it - the ST-4700 shifters do not have exactly the same cable pull as 11-speed shifters. If they did, they could not be used with 10-speed cassettes - which is the point of these shifters. As far as I can calculate the ST-4700 shifters pull 2.8 mm whereas 11-speed shifters pull 2.7 mm. Not a lot of difference but probably enough to mess things up. I have a set of ST-4700 shifters and they work well. If I ever buy a new bike it will have 11-speed and hydraulic disc brakes. The verdict is still out on electronic shifters. Having to charge the batteries on your shifters just seems odd.