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Have anyone tried nashbar carbon frame? what chinese frame for endurance?

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Have anyone tried nashbar carbon frame? what chinese frame for endurance?

Old 09-18-15, 08:47 PM
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HazeT
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Have anyone tried nashbar carbon frame? what chinese frame for endurance?

After riding a defy advanced a couple weeks ago I decided I definitely want a carbon frame, riding over rough pavement was noticeably nicer but I'm not willing to spend $2000 on a new frame or $3000 on a bike.
I see chinese carbon frames are popular but I only see race geometry frames being bought and reviewed, does anyone knows any frame model for endurance?
Also I looked at nashbar and they have one that the geometry looked more endurance oriented, the frame goes for $600 but usually they have a 20% discount site wide bringing the price down to $480, that is on par with any Chinese carbon price wise.

Have anyone tried to build a bike with the nashbar frame? if so, any reviews feedbacks?
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Old 09-18-15, 11:34 PM
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See my post below- I have one, I really like it and is a great deal esp with 20% sale. Rode it this afternoon and was thinking it really is a fun bike to ride.
Geometry is somewhere in between endurance and a more aggressive racer-my size 55 is very close to a giant TCR M/L in all mesasurements, except for seat tube length.
https://www.bikeforums.net/road-cycli...l#post18135101

Originally Posted by HazeT
After riding a defy advanced a couple weeks ago I decided I definitely want a carbon frame, riding over rough pavement was noticeably nicer but I'm not willing to spend $2000 on a new frame or $3000 on a bike.
I see chinese carbon frames are popular but I only see race geometry frames being bought and reviewed, does anyone knows any frame model for endurance?
Also I looked at nashbar and they have one that the geometry looked more endurance oriented, the frame goes for $600 but usually they have a 20% discount site wide bringing the price down to $480, that is on par with any Chinese carbon price wise.

Have anyone tried to build a bike with the nashbar frame? if so, any reviews feedbacks?

Last edited by MagicHour; 09-18-15 at 11:38 PM.
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Old 09-18-15, 11:50 PM
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Originally Posted by MagicHour
See my post below- I have one, I really like it and is a great deal esp with 20% sale. Rode it this afternoon and was thinking it really is a fun bike to ride.
Geometry is somewhere in between endurance and a more aggressive racer-my size 55 is very close to a giant TCR M/L in all mesasurements, except for seat tube length.
https://www.bikeforums.net/road-cycli...l#post18135101
Bike looks great. Thanks.
Do you remember what did you have to buy for the build? I'm talking about the small stuff.
Did it come with that chainstay protector or did you buy one? stuff like that
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Old 09-19-15, 03:45 AM
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Don't expect a $500 frame to feel like a $2000 frame. Don't expect it to last as long, either.
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Old 09-19-15, 08:07 AM
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Originally Posted by Lazyass
Don't expect a $500 frame to feel like a $2000 frame. Don't expect it to last as long, either.
Maybe true, but the real question isn't the selling price difference, but the manufacturing cost difference (which we don't know).
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Old 09-19-15, 08:28 AM
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Thanks. In addition to my groupset, wheels and cockpit parts the small parts needed were:
headset -$49
compression insert plug(nashbar) $6
chain-stay/cable rub protectors - $10
inline cable tensioners-esp for Shimano 11sp front derailleur-$15
and highly recommend special ordering some extra derailleur hangers from nashbar customer service-$10
all told ~$100

Oh and for mechanical build besides the inline cable adjusters you don't need to do anything exotic for the internal cabling, Stock Shimano brake/shifter cable sets have everything you need. I did put a couple donuts on the internal rear brake cable to prevent cable slap, though.

Originally Posted by HazeT
Bike looks great. Thanks.
o you remember what did you have to buy for the build? I'm talking about the small stuff.
Did it come with that chainstay protector or did you buy one? stuff like that
No maybe not, but it's still a fun, stiff, fast and comfortable bike to ride; handling is predictable, and probably not going to slow down 99.5% of riders. Not sure why it wouldn't last as long, though? some of the new bling frames that are coming out now are sub 7-800gm, and not sure how a frame that light is going to stand the test of time.

Originally Posted by Lazyass
Don't expect a $500 frame to feel like a $2000 frame. Don't expect it to last as long, either.
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Old 09-19-15, 09:38 AM
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Originally Posted by Lazyass
Don't expect a $500 frame to feel like a $2000 frame. Don't expect it to last as long, either.
My $450 Chinese doesn't feel much different than the $3000 Giant frame I had. The Giant definitely didn't feel $2500 better
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Old 09-19-15, 09:45 AM
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Originally Posted by Sy Reene
Maybe true, but the real question isn't the selling price difference, but the manufacturing cost difference (which we don't know).
People don't want to believe that the frame on their $10k bike cost the same to manufacturer as a $500-800 open mold frame. Yes you are paying for R&D as Trek for example is probably paying a few designers $100K + per year to design frames and a Chinese manufacturer is probably paying someone $100/year. But I certainly believe that the people working for Chinese open mold manufacturers are the same people manufacturing every other name brand frame, they do have years of experience working with carbon fiber and while I don't think they are just using the same mold as a Trek or other brand and giving you the same frame , I do believe that they have intimidate knowledge of those frame designs and are just liberally borrowing design ideas from other bikes they have worked on.
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Old 09-19-15, 10:04 AM
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Originally Posted by MagicHour
No maybe not, but it's still a fun, stiff, fast and comfortable bike to ride; handling is predictable, and probably not going to slow down 99.5% of riders. Not sure why it wouldn't last as long, though? some of the new bling frames that are coming out now are sub 7-800gm, and not sure how a frame that light is going to stand the test of time.
Specialized did a test on one of these cheapo $500 Chinese carbon junk frames. It broke. I understand the people who have already bought them want to justify their purchase, but there's a reason they're cheap.

The in-house testing lab at the Morgan Hill, California, headquarters of Specialized Bicycle Components is a gleaming example of engineering efficiency: a spacious, well-lit shop where brutish machines rip and wrench bicycle frames and parts to—and past—their limits.

On this particular morning, a special frame sits on the frontal-impact rig. The Venge is an intimidating broadsword of a bike, with a menacing coat of matte-black paint bisected on the down tube by a murderous red slash. A bright white decal spells "McLaren" on the top tube, the logo of Britain’s storied supercar maker and F1 racing team, and Specialized’s longtime technology partner.

The pedal-fatigue test is long and numbingly dull. Test engineers fix the fork to a rigid point on the test jig, and the rear dropouts to an extension that simulates how a frame pivots over the rear tire’s contact patch. The final piece is a dummy drivetrain—including a cassette, chain, and overbuilt crankarms (both oriented at an angle to sustain maximum power transfer). Over the next 14 hours, the test machine alternately slams each crankarm with an excess of 1,200 N of force for 100,000 cycles—essentially a 120-rpm sprint for 14 hours straight. The test is meant to simulate cumulative pedal forces from years of riding.

Most of the time, frames get pummeled on the machine for the duration of the test cycle, then move on to the next phase of assessment. But this time, when the test finishes, there’s a problem: The frame is cracked.

For a McLaren, the failure is doubly damning. Specialized doesn’t have a separate set of fatigue benchmarks for the McLaren series, but these frames should be the best of the best of what Specialized makes. Launched in 2011, the McLaren series Venge features a carbon fiber construction that McLaren engineers ran through proprietary software designed to tune the entire frame to the absolute limit of technology and materials. Manufactured in a limited edition of 450, the complete bikes sold for $18,000.

Yet Santiago Morales, the company’s engineering manager for testing, seems unruffled by this bike’s failure. He inspects the breakage, logs the number of cycles and the location and size of the cracks, then calmly unbolts the frame and hangs it on the wall. Morales is a naturally deliberate man. His studied indifference might be because he breaks frames every day, and there is no novelty to it anymore. But in this case, Morales acts unsurprised because he is unsurprised. He expected the frame to fail at some point; the only questions were where, when, and by how much. That’s because the McLaren on the bench isn’t a McLaren at all. It’s not even a Specialized.
Greg Tombragel just wanted a good race bike. Born and raised in the Cincinnati area, the 43-year-old IT leader with General Electric’s aviation division started riding in 2007 on an inexpensive aluminum Bottecchia, “when I was about 50 pounds heavier than I am now,” he says.

Though Tombragel picked up riding relatively late in life, he made up in ability what he lacked in experience. As his fitness and physique transformed, friends suggested he try racing. And as he upgraded (he is now a category 2), so did his bikes. In 2010, he bought a BMC Racemaster SLX01, a light, stiff model made from carbon and aluminum. When the seatpost seized in the frame four years later, and the warranty claim dragged out, he began looking for a replacement bike. He tried to buy a used Specialized Venge on eBay, “but you can’t touch a one- to two-year-old frameset for less than $1,500,” he says. “I put in a few bids and lost.” Although he has a good job at GE, he didn’t want to spend the $5,500 it would have cost to purchase a new, race-ready Venge.

Ironically, it was his search for legitimate items that led him to a murky deal. “Because I’d been looking on eBay and Google, I got served up an ad in Gmail from DHgate. Sure enough, you have a frame that looks dead-on like it’s a Venge,” he recalls. “You could tell it was Chinese-direct. But I’d bought things from overseas on eBay, so I was comfortable with it.” The bike was openly advertised as a Specialized. The cost: $500, including shipping.

When the frame arrived, he took it to a shop to have the parts switched from his old BMC. But from the start, there were issues. Over the next few months, he began to notice that the dropouts weren’t totally aligned. To spin freely, the rear wheel had to be clamped slightly askew. Other oddities: Standard water bottle cage bolts didn’t fit in the frame. And after a few weeks, the screw-in cable-stop adaptor for the internally routed cables began to rust. These weren’t the only signs something was amiss. Not long after getting the bike, he had an unsettling experience on a descent. “In the chainstays and fork, there was a kind of squishy feel,” he recalls. “I just didn’t have any confidence in high-speed turns.” Similar sensations followed on other rides. Additionally, he felt unstable on the bike when sprinting. A return trip to the shop to try to fix some of the issues confirmed what Tombragel had begun to suspect. The shop owner showed a visiting Specialized rep this mysterious Venge with misaligned dropouts. After a few moments, the rep dropped the bad news: “That’s a fake.”
To Catch a Counterfeiter: The Sketchy World of Fake Bike Gear | Bicycling
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Old 09-19-15, 10:05 AM
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Originally Posted by rms13
People don't want to believe that the frame on their $10k bike cost the same to manufacturer as a $500-800 open mold frame.
Do you have proof of this claim?
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Old 09-19-15, 10:18 AM
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Originally Posted by Lazyass
Do you have proof of this claim?
My proof is that last year i could have got a Evo hi mod frame for $1200 through a team deal. I assume Cannondale offers the same deal to hundreds of teams and still make a profit so how much do you think they are really paying to manufacture their frames?
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Old 09-19-15, 10:33 AM
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Originally Posted by Lazyass
Specialized did a test on one of these cheapo $500 Chinese carbon junk frames. It broke. I understand the people who have already bought them want to justify their purchase, but there's a reason they're cheap.
The article you listed was a counterfeit Specialized frame, not a generic frame from a reputable discount retailer.

Also, an individual unfinished carbon Specialized or Trek carbon frame costs about same to those companies as the generic frame costs Nashbar. Probably around $200 each.
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Old 09-19-15, 10:36 AM
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Originally Posted by Wilfred Laurier
The article you listed was a counterfeit Specialized frame, not a generic frame from a reputable discount retailer.

Also, an individual unfinished carbon Specialized or Trek carbon frame costs about same to those companies as the generic frame costs Nashbar. Probably around $200 each.
The article was also written by a publication that takes advertising money from Specialized so im sure there was no bias or agenda...
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Old 09-19-15, 10:50 AM
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Yeah read that, frames in those tests were counterfeits masquerading as the more expensive frames in aesthetics only , and thus lacked the proper engineering of the originals. Frames such as the nashbar carbon are open mold and not pretending to be something they're not. Now I'll give you that I'm not sure of the rigorous testing or product engineering that went behind my frame, likely less than trek, specialized etc. I dunno, just gonna have to put my faith in vendor, and how the bike has performed so far w/ a little over 2,000mi on it.

If my bike catastrophically asplodes and I live to tell about it, I'll be sure to post my experiences here, but so far so good.


Originally Posted by Lazyass
Specialized did a test on one of these cheapo $500 Chinese carbon junk frames. It broke. I understand the people who have already bought them want to justify their purchase, but there's a reason they're cheap.





To Catch a Counterfeiter: The Sketchy World of Fake Bike Gear | Bicycling
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Old 09-19-15, 10:52 AM
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Originally Posted by Wilfred Laurier
The article you listed was a counterfeit Specialized frame, not a generic frame from a reputable discount retailer.
I totally expected you to say that. The decals on the bike are irrelevant, and the buyer knew it was China-direct. It was a no name $500 carbon frame sold on DHgate. How exactly is a $500 carbon Chinese frame with no decals any different?

Originally Posted by Wilfred Laurier
Also, an individual unfinished carbon Specialized or Trek carbon frame costs about same to those companies as the generic frame costs Nashbar. Probably around $200 each.
Do you have proof of this claim?
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Old 09-19-15, 10:52 AM
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Originally Posted by rms13
The article was also written by a publication that takes advertising money from Specialized so im sure there was no bias or agenda...
Yes, that must be the explanation
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Old 09-19-15, 10:53 AM
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Originally Posted by rms13
My proof is that last year i could have got a Evo hi mod frame for $1200 through a team deal.
That's not proof of your previous claim.
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Old 09-19-15, 11:28 AM
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Originally Posted by Lazyass
How exactly is a $500 carbon Chinese frame with no decals any different?
Because one is an attempt to fool people into buying what might be the genuine article; the other is not. To me, that is an important distinction, though in an of itself nowhere near a 100% reliable predictor of frame quality.

I am sure there are plenty of crap Chinese frames, painted or not. And there seem to be some out there that are gaining a reasonable reputation that are likely quite fine, though they certainly will not have the same engineering pedigree and manufacturing QC as you'd get with a major manufacturer. That stuff costs money.
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Old 09-19-15, 11:41 AM
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Originally Posted by GuitarBob
Because one is an attempt to fool people into buying what might be the genuine article; the other is not. To me, that is an important distinction, though in an of itself nowhere near a 100% reliable predictor of frame quality.
Decals or not is irrelevant. It's a $500 carbon Chinese frame that no buyer has any clue who really makes it, what kind of R&D went into it, and no clue what kind of quality control the maker has. They know nothing. The exact same frame could be sold with counterfeit decals or none at all. Joe Rider sees a picture of cool looking frame, reads the weight, sees it costs $500 or whatever and buys it.
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Old 09-19-15, 11:50 AM
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We're going to disagree, at least in part. For a whole pile of frames coming out of China, I'd agree; complete unknowns. A subset of others, though, have become pretty darned well known as reliable frames.

I'd also agree that we don't know who is actually making them, but that is true for frames from almost all the major manufacturers as well.

Originally Posted by Lazyass
Decals or not is irrelevant. It's a $500 carbon Chinese frame that no buyer has any clue who really makes it, what kind of R&D went into it, and no clue what kind of quality control the maker has. They know nothing. The exact same frame could be sold with counterfeit decals or none at all. Joe Rider sees a picture of cool looking frame, reads the weight, sees it costs $500 or whatever and buys it.
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Old 09-19-15, 12:08 PM
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I've never ridden the Nashbar frame, but I wouldn't hesitate to buy one if the choice were between Nashbar and no name/unknown Chinese factory direct. Nashbar is open to litigation in the case of injury during use of their product, good luck if something happens to you while riding your Chinese factory direct frame.

Also as to the ongoing debate, not all Chinese companies are the same. There are probably some that are reliable and stand behind their product, there are probably others who are scum. Also as far as big name brands frames go, there are many made in Taiwan, and that is NOT the same as made in China!
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Old 09-19-15, 12:09 PM
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Originally Posted by GuitarBob
We're going to disagree, at least in part. For a whole pile of frames coming out of China, I'd agree; complete unknowns. A subset of others, though, have become pretty darned well known as reliable frames.
Which no name $500 frames have become well known as reliable?
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Old 09-19-15, 12:12 PM
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Originally Posted by milkbaby
I've never ridden the Nashbar frame, but I wouldn't hesitate to buy one if the choice were between Nashbar and no name/unknown Chinese factory direct. Nashbar is open to litigation in the case of injury during use of their product, good luck if something happens to you while riding your Chinese factory direct frame.
I would trust a frame from Nashbar. I would have to believe they have done their testing and research before putting their name on them, and they are based here so they know they could be sued if a customer got hurt because of a junk frame. That's not the case with a Super Dragon Slayer made by Hung Sein Chow Mein and sold on Ali Baba and DHgate haha
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Old 09-19-15, 12:25 PM
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Originally Posted by milkbaby
I've never ridden the Nashbar frame, but I wouldn't hesitate to buy one if the choice were between Nashbar and no name/unknown Chinese factory direct. Nashbar is open to litigation in the case of injury during use of their product, good luck if something happens to you while riding your Chinese factory direct frame.

Also as to the ongoing debate, not all Chinese companies are the same. There are probably some that are reliable and stand behind their product, there are probably others who are scum. Also as far as big name brands frames go, there are many made in Taiwan, and that is NOT the same as made in China!
Are you sure?
Full circle? | Bicycle brands resist costly China |
Yes, it's a 2012 article, so not exactly current, but it appears that one of the largest and more successful OEM makers, nominally Taiwanese, actually has (or at least had, until as this article suggests, the costs became too high), its production done in China. Taiwan company status is basically a front.

Here's another large OEM maker.. interesting to see where its actual production plants are though.
https://www.topkey.com.tw/www/_englis...tail.php?pid=5

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Old 09-19-15, 12:43 PM
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I didn't say anything about $500; I don't know what they cost, because I've never shopped for one seriously, my interest has been casual. Others who have read more carefully would be able to offer a more complete answer than me, but one that comes up regularly is DengFu.

Product - dengfubikes

There are a few others. I have no doubt that you could find examples of trashed frames that they have sold and some pissed off buyers, but that's true for every other bike brand out there too. My point is that it seems that a fair number of people have purchased their frames and my impression is that they have had consistently good experiences. Would I buy one? Maybe; when I was younger and had less disposable income I think I would have.

There's a long thread on Chinese frames on Road Bike Review--at least that's where I think I saw it.

Originally Posted by Lazyass
Which no name $500 frames have become well known as reliable?
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