Bike Forums - Help!! Broken spoke

Bike Forums (https://www.bikeforums.net/forum.php)

- Road Cycling (https://www.bikeforums.net/road-cycling/)

- - Help!! Broken spoke (https://www.bikeforums.net/road-cycling/1031651-help-broken-spoke.html)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chiefsandme (Post 18190547)

Every time this has happened, ZERO chance of still rolling. I have tried to use release to get it off the brake, still NOTHING. I've never lessened any spokes.

Opening the brakes used to be enough when we rode 32 o 36 spokes and narrow tires. Nowadays with low-spoke-count wheels and wider rims and tires, I guess fooling with the spokes is also required. That is something you might want to practice. Not just loosening the adjacent spokes, but also tightening the opposite spokes.

Quote:

Originally Posted by cleansheet (Post 18190250)

I had this happen 3 times with the stock wheels (Alex) that came with my Jamis Ventura Comp that I bought in '07. Purchased a new set of Mavic Askium's in '09 and have never had an issue since.

Heh, heh. I bought a pair of Alex wheels. Once. Based on my experience, they must use some patented technique that guarantees that no two spokes will have the same tension.

The OP doesn't have Alex wheels, but sounds like someone else is infringing on this technology -- after the rebuild, everything should have been OK. This is not a spoke count problem. Until I bought those crappy 28 spoke Alex wheels, the highest number of spokes I ran was 24 (lowest was 16). I ride with panniers and have never broken a spoke. I ride many years and many thousands of miles and my wheels stay true (except for Alex).

Odds are the LBS screwed up and the approach suggested in an earlier post is probably the ticket.

Quote:

Originally Posted by WalksOn2Wheels (Post 18190508)

I was talking specifically about the plasticity of the metal. If you look at the linear stress/strain curve of a given material, a metal stretched to near it's breaking point, and then not properly stress relieved is going to be near it's breaking point. The point of stress relieving is to push the spoke further in the plastic deformation range. Once it is stretched and then relaxes back to the length required, it now has a wider range of load that it can take before snapping.

While this is true, it is not the mechanism through which spokes typically break.

Stress relieving the spokes is typically done by applying an extraordinary force to the spokes in such a way that they bend more tightly around eachother and the flange of the hub (plastic deformation). Doing this usually causes the spokes to loosen as they are now taking a shorter path from the hub to the rim. If this is properly done during wheel building, the builder can then reintroduce the tension and true the wheel vertically and laterally. If the builder does not do this properly, it happens over the first few miles or so of riding... faster under a heavier rider... and then the rider is possibly left with a wheel that has insufficient tension in the spokes, which leads to fatigue failure if not corrected.

I also bought a 2014 Giant TCR, which came with the PSL-1 wheels I believe. Has DT Swiss hubs and spokes I believe. One of the spokes on the rear wheel, non drive side came loose. I noticed it because the wheel came out of true and was rubbing slightly, and I fixed it before the spoke broke. It was loose to the point where I could wiggle it with my fingers... This happened after only a few hundred miles.

Quote:

Originally Posted by WalksOn2Wheels (Post 18190586)

Honestly, the crappy 32 spoke wheels I got on my Cannondale CX bike (now on the new Crockett) have needed more work and they have far less miles. No broken spokes, but they don't stay true for very long.

Yes, stock wheels suck, most of the time.

Quote:

Originally Posted by dr_lha (Post 18190992)

Yes, stock wheels suck, most of the time.

I'll be sure to start a thread the first time my Bontrager wheels need truing.

Quote:

Originally Posted by WalksOn2Wheels (Post 18190998)

I'll be sure to start a thread the first time my Bontrager wheels need truing.

*hence why I said "most of the time". ;)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chiefsandme (Post 18190247)

It is a Giant p-sl 1 wheel, 24 spokes in rear, straight pull, supposed to be relaced with DT Swiss. I try very hard to stand at all road hazards, and also ride at 100psi.

There's your problem. Those things have been pretty crappy and have filled my shop on multiple occasions to be repaired.

Get a wheel built for you (from anyone - not an ad here). You're too heavy for 24 spokes in the rear regardless of what anyone else tells you.

Oh...and if you snapped a spoke within 100 miles - even with the wheel underspoked for you - whomever "re-built" it did a really, really crappy job.

Ok, you have a number of options.

At 220 lbs, your wheel SHOULD be able to take your weight. But, apparently it isn't.

Replace the one spoke (may be a fluke), and check the spoke tension around the whole wheel. At last this will get you back on the road.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chiefsandme (Post 18190547)

Every time this has happened, ZERO chance of still rolling. I have tried to use release to get it off the brake, still NOTHING. I've never lessened any spokes.

Quote:

Originally Posted by rpenmanparker (Post 18190602)

Yeah, I broke a front wheel spoke on a ride this spring. I was about 20 miles into the ride, and wanted to keep going (100+ miles for the day), so I retensioned and trued the wheel on the road. Whew, what a pain to undo when I got back home :eek:

Perhaps I should try one of those cable spokes.

Anyway, unless the OP is really into racing, there is no reason not to go with a 32 or 36 spoke wheel, although it may not match the bike. And., should a spoke break, it is easier to recover on the road.

I suppose I'd like to play around with some low spoke count wheels, but will consider them for "flash", or as a fun experiment.

The spokes and spoke tension aren't the only issue. Stock rims aren't usually very strong either, and they can and will contribute to spoke breakage. OP, I'd recommend having wheels built. Velocity DeepV and Dyad hoops are Clyde favorites. I had my 36H F/R DeepVs built by prowheelbuilder.com using White Industries hubs and 14Ga DTSwiss spokes and brass nipples. Bomb proof so far! I weighed over 400lbs (now under 260) when I started using them and they have been absolutely trouble free. They also weigh less than the stock 16/20 spoke wheels I replaced. Get some wheels built and you won't have any more issues.

[MENTION=384791]Chiefsandme[/MENTION] are you sure they didn't reuse your old spokes? This is referred to as "re-tensioning".

If so, the fatigue at the J bend near the hub was already accumulated.

BTW, when I was 220 years ago, I had 32 spoke Alex wheels that would go out of true every few months. I'd break a spoke occasionally too.

Later, at 175, my Eastons 24 spoke started breaking spokes after about 10k miles. Replaced with Fulcrums which have been problem-free for 10k miles.

A lot depends on the wheel design.

My solution is to build my own wheels and never ride them for more than about 1,000 miles. I just sell them used and build myself another set. It's a hobby thing, so there is no question of waste or economy or such. And I recover enough of the original cost to make the next set dirt cheap. Sometimes there is even a profit. I'm confident my builds are robust, else I wouldn't sell them with a clear conscience. But I just never have to find out for myself. Though I will say no one has come back to me, even folks I know personally, and said my wheels they bought were breaking spokes. ;)

Quote:

Originally Posted by KBentley57 (Post 18190384)

If you can, just talk to him. I know it sucks, even being mildly confrontational, but if I were in your spot the convo would go something like this. "Hey, I'm back again. It seems like the last time you replaced the broken spoke(s) they worked very well, but only for a few miles. I know you probably don't rebuild wheels that often, but since it keeps being an issue, do you think it would be possible to completely de-tension the wheel, and true it from slack spokes? I'm concerned that by only replacing the broken spoke and doing a touch up from there, that the others have become randomly tensioned, contributing to the newly broken spokes." I know it sounds overly nice and pandering, but lets be real, no mechanic builds wheels from scratch in general, and the ones that do, with exception of wheel builders, probably don't do it often. This gives them a chance to really fix the problem while saving face, it'll possibly give you a wheel that works, and everyone's mildly happy at the outcome. If that line of communication fails, or the wheel fails afterwards, then it'd be time to switch shops.

I'd also ask the wheel builder exactly what tension they are putting on the spokes. Unfortunately, a lot of wheelbuilders at an LBS will check tension with a "ping" test to see if the spokes are equally tensioned. That will work for most cyclists, but for a Clyde, they really need to use a meter to check the tension. If you ask them, and they used a meter, they can tell you. If they used the ping test, you'll probably get some hemming and hawing about the tension. Ask them to use a meter to check the tension. Put it on yourself by saying that do to your weight, you're a lot harder on spokes than most cyclists, and that you would appreciate it if they use a meter to check the tension on the spokes to make sure they are evenly tensioned.

Might not hurt, if you got a meter to measure the tension of the spokes, and make it part of your monthly maintenance routine. And if they can give you numbers on what tension the drive-side and non-drive-side spokes should be tensioned to, then you can keep them there, and that will help you with your spoke issue.

GH