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Originally Posted by DBrown9383
(Post 18193595)
Perhaps the MUP's should be wider with a separate lane just for bikes?
And then there's a hilly MUP on the south end with great views and switchbacks, and nobody ever uses it. I take that one every time, have it all to myself and enjoy better scenery than the nearby neighborhood roads. |
Here is my bike path, not runners, kids, dogs, ect ect
https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8454/...72905481_b.jpg |
Originally Posted by PepeM
(Post 18193615)
Big park over here has separate paths for bicycles and runners. Guess which path most runners use.
I haven't done much jogging lately, but the sawdust paths are MUCH nicer to jog on. Less knee impact. So, in areas where there are both, the joggers take the sawdust paths. Still walkers may choose paved.
Originally Posted by datlas
(Post 18193760)
Agree it depends on the trail. That said, the vast majority of MUPs that I have ridden on are ok for tootling along at 8-12MPH but NOT SAFE for fast riding. The only thing that gets a workout on them are my brakes and my nerves.
YMMV. I am targeting a bikepath Strava KOM. I got it up to 27.7 MPH... and am only #3 :( I'll have to push it over 30 MPH to get KOM :giver: But... that is only one short, straight, wide section of the path. In general, I'm down in the 10-15 MPH range on the paths. And there are several segments (most of them) that I am not interested in "racing" as I don't consider it the least bit safe.
Originally Posted by 10 Wheels
(Post 18193638)
Originally Posted by DBrown9383
(Post 18193595)
We put bells on the bikes but often times ringing the bell would only alarm a pedestrian and they would often move LEFT instead of right?
I slow down for pedestrians and other trail users. Notify them of my presence, then pass in the opening they create. |
I used to love MUPS when my kids were just learning how to ride a bike.
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Originally Posted by PepeM
(Post 18193740)
Of course road bikes moving at fast speeds have a right to be there. The higher speed differential makes them the most likely to be involved in some sort of collision though.
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Yesterday on the Aurora Bridge (Highway 99) a "Ride the Ducks" bus hit a tour (?) bus and killed four people. The roads can be dangerous too. Just use common sense.
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Originally Posted by PepeM
(Post 18193740)
Of course road bikes moving at fast speeds have a right to be there. The higher speed differential makes them the most likely to be involved in some sort of collision though.
That being said, the MUP is no place for TT training. |
Originally Posted by Hypno Toad
(Post 18194045)
Not the collisions I've seen. Slow moving bikers with little experience are most likely to collide with foot traffic and other bikes. Most (not all) fast moving bikers are experienced and know how to brake and maneuver around issues. An experienced rider can stop a road bike in a very short distance, when needed.
That being said, the MUP is no place for TT training. However, stopping distances increase with speed... non-linearly. So, a rider might be able to stop on a dime at 10 MPH, but it can take 30 or 40 feet at 30 MPH... on a good surface. This is more or less theoretical for a car, but the idea is the same. The faster you go, the further it takes to stop, and it is non linear. http://arachnoid.com/conservation_of.../stopping1.png Physics / Conservation of Energy There is also reaction time, which this doesn't take into account. Perhaps the experienced riders react a bit quicker (but still not instantaneously). |
Originally Posted by CliffordK
(Post 18194083)
The experienced riders will judge a situation before getting to it. And, presumably mostly have control over their bike. Of course, there are young riders who may choose to ride far too fast in the wrong situations.
However, stopping distances increase with speed... non-linearly. So, a rider might be able to stop on a dime at 10 MPH, but it can take 30 or 40 feet at 30 MPH... on a good surface. This is more or less theoretical for a car, but the idea is the same. The faster you go, the further it takes to stop, and it is non linear. http://arachnoid.com/conservation_of.../stopping1.png Physics / Conservation of Energy There is also reaction time, which this doesn't take into account. Perhaps the experienced riders react a bit quicker (but still not instantaneously). 30 to 40 feet... that is a very short distance. I have had the opportunity to bring my bike to a stop from speeds over 30 mph (on roads, with cars causing me to stop). It is shocking how little space it takes to stop a bike. Experience goes way beyond stopping distance or stopping reaction. Other factors, looking up the road (not starring at your front wheel) to identify issues and blind-spots well ahead of time. Also maneuvering, you can steer your bike around an issue, in addition to braking. These are things many inexperienced riders are not doing. And "inexperienced rider" has nothing to do with age, I see far too many inexperienced riders that are baby boomers (old enough to know better) |
I expected much more in-fighting when I started this thread, it's refreshing to see that not be the case. I'm not saying MUP's are a bad thing but there can be unexpected dangers on MUP's to the un-initiated and of course it depends on the MUP. I suppose in the grand scheme of things though, a collision with another cyclist or pedestrian will usually have a far better outcome than a collision with a car or truck. If one slows down and just enjoys the people watching on a busy MUP it's still fun. If you want to get somewhere quickly / keep a good pace, the MUPs I've ridden are not the place to do it.
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Cyclists are an interesting study in self affirmation, or at least in the determination to believe what you want. Somehow, there's no instance where riding on the road is too dangerous, and we hear about how it's more dangerous to drive in a car or more likely you'll be eaten by a shark or something like that.... yet at the same time MUPs are the most dangerous things on this earth and heaven forbid if you ride on a side walk you're going to get cancer instantly and, by god, you'd have deserved it, too.
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Originally Posted by DBrown9383
(Post 18194225)
If you want to get somewhere quickly / keep a good pace, the MUPs I've ridden are not the place to do it.
15 MPH... cut through town. If the MUPS go where you want to go, they're the BEST way to go. I'm not big on riding over 25 MPH on the MUPS, except for a few sections, but there are quite a few places where a vigilant rider could push it up to about 20. Yeah, if you're out on a training ride, and want to average 25 MPH, then find a good country loop. One of the things about the good MUPS is they avoid all the stoplights/stopsigns which seem to snag me far too frequently. So, unless I'm pushing it hard enough to hang with the cars, the MUPS are avoid all the waiting at lights, and can save a significant amount of time. |
Originally Posted by jtaylor996
(Post 18194302)
Cyclists are an interesting study in self affirmation, or at least in the determination to believe what you want. Somehow, there's no instance where riding on the road is too dangerous, and we hear about how it's more dangerous to drive in a car or more likely you'll be eaten by a shark or something like that.... yet at the same time MUPs are the most dangerous things on this earth and heaven forbid if you ride on a side walk you're going to get cancer instantly and, by god, you'd have deserved it, too.
One has the danger to the cyclist, and the danger to everyone else. I don't worry about getting taken out by a car on a MUP. But, there is always the risk of wiping out a kid. The risks can be minimized with using caution around others, curves, and intersections. Of course, a different kind of caution also helps on the roads. The two are different, but I see them as complimenting each other. I do welcome streetside bike paths, but they also seem to be glass magnets (not as much with the MUPS). |
Originally Posted by jtaylor996
(Post 18194302)
Cyclists are an interesting study in self affirmation, or at least in the determination to believe what you want. Somehow, there's no instance where riding on the road is too dangerous, and we hear about how it's more dangerous to drive in a car or more likely you'll be eaten by a shark or something like that.... yet at the same time MUPs are the most dangerous things on this earth and heaven forbid if you ride on a side walk you're going to get cancer instantly and, by god, you'd have deserved it, too.
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Originally Posted by Seattle Forrest
(Post 18194360)
Feel better now?
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Originally Posted by 69chevy
(Post 18193618)
A MUP is basically a giant sidewalk. You can ride a bike there, but if you want to ride a road bike, the road is the right place.
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Since there are few roads around my house with shoulders and a primo MUP passes our development it's a no brainer. The pedestrians and people with helmet-less children have no brains. I fear the day that a swerving new 5 yr old helmet-less rider crosses my path at 5 mph and I crash and injure them or worse. 6 wide walking on the MUP why not?
My wife and I have Cardo headsets to talk to each other on the trail, it prevents us from needing to ride side by side, so we are able to pass others and minimize the risk to everyone involved. I also like the walkers that complain about the bikers on the path (we're fat, people don't know we have about 1,000 miles on that MUP this year). They complain about getting yelled at, well heck lady, if you weren't listening to Taylor Swift and paying attention then I wouldn't have to warn you as I go by to grab your unleashed dog. |
Complaining about fat people walking six abreast on MUP's with unleashed dogs and un-helmeted 5 yr. olds zig-zagging on bikes demonstrates where in some cases, the side of the road could be considered safer. I haven't seen super deluxe MUP's with separate walking zones in this state but who knows what the future may bring. This state does seem to be sinking a lot of money into MUP's. Some of the MUP's here suddenly end and you are dumped out on a sidewalk. Then the choice is the sidewalk or the road. The cars yell at you if you use the road and the pedestrians yell at you if you use the sidewalk.
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Originally Posted by DrIsotope
(Post 18193702)
I'm starting to think MUPs are different outside Southern California. This is what I ride on, the Santa Ana River Trail-- this picture is of a section just north of Anaheim. If my roads were in better shape than this, I would stick to them exclusively. I average right at 19mph on the trail, no problem. 99% of the non-wheeled occupants stick to the dirt shoulder anyway.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3...psrjie0nhy.jpg |
Once the California govt. finds some money hidden away somewhere and manages to finish the Santa Ana Trail, I will be able to cycle from Big Bear Lake to Huntington Beach without ever leaving the trail-- just over 100 miles. As it is now, it's ~65 miles long and I have to navigate through beautiful (not beautiful) Norco for a dozen miles or so. And regardless of how many people are on it, I'll take the SART over rural Norco any day of any week.
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I used to enjoy my local MUP on weekends (which is officially a "hike and bike" trail) until I came upon a woman and her off-leash dogs. She had headphones on, so I approached from behind at near-walking pace, and of course one of her dogs ran across my path and I barely managed to get my foot out of the pedal and did the awkward low side squat--not quite falling down. She was genuinely apologetic and said she hadn't heard me coming. I bit my lip as I reckoned she had learned her lesson. The MUP is great during commuting hours though, since it's practically just us friendly cyclists.
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Originally Posted by DBrown9383
(Post 18193595)
As a new cyclist I don't really speak from a lot of experience but my wife and I bought bikes this spring and started riding... a lot.... At first we would load the bikes up on a trunk rack and go to a MUP that looked good in a guide book for bike trails in Michigan. The first few MUP rides were fun but after that I found riding MUP's to be a frustrating and often times dangerous experience. At our initial speed of less than 10mph things worked out o.k but when trying to ride at any speed above that it got dicey. We put bells on the bikes but often times ringing the bell would only alarm a pedestrian and they would often move LEFT instead of right? Skateboarders, baby carriages, wandering pedestrians, children on bikes with training wheels, e-bikes etc. etc. all made the experience a little un-nerving. Lately we've been staying on roads and have far less conflict and can ride faster and put on more miles. The book we read about Michigan's bike paths should be re-named and warnings should be given regarding who can and does use these paths. It's a free for all and not all that bike friendly for anyone doing more than a very casual site seeing ride at less than 10mph. Perhaps the MUP's should be wider with a separate lane just for bikes? The title of this post is a little extreme and in general I think the MUP's are a good idea as they get people outside and moving instead of driving a car but I have learned quickly that riding a MUP isn't a stress free experience and can be outright dangerous.
Maybe someone can suggest a place to ride in New York I guess I need to find a group around me. |
Originally Posted by winston63
(Post 18193656)
Most of the local MUPs are pretty decent for getting around, but you really have to be prepared to slow down and pay close attention. I try to assume that children and joggers are going to step out in front of me and I'll generally delay a pass until I can get safely and clearly around. Now it does depend on the time of day - I commute via one and it's fine in the morning. There are a number of other cycling commuters, but I can generally maintain a decent pace pretty safely. Things slow down in the afternoon, and on a sunny Saturday or Sunday it's going to be very slow going!
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I was on a MUP following a female cyclist about 45' behind. She approached three rather oblivious individuals, one in the center of the three was walking a large dog. They were on the right side of the path, dog straining at the end of the retractable leash on the left side of the path. There is about 2' or less of path left to the left of the dog. Both the female rider in front and I move to the left side of the path and slow down to pass the dog walkers. As she nears the pedestrians, she rings her bell and calls out "on your left". The woman holding the leash begins gathering the dog in and is visibly put off by having to do so.
Normally I wouldn't do this, but sensing an opportunity to make a point; I gathered some courage and stupidity, dialed up 400 watts, and droped the hamor toward the edge of the path. Sure enough, as soon as the first cyclist was past them, Fido was released to the end of his restraint again. What happens next went something like this. 1. Fido gets to the end of his leash about 18" from the left edge of the path. 2. I loudly recite "on your left" 3. Woman holding the leash screams " OH-expletive deleted!" and begins frantically wrapping the retractable leash around her upper arm to bring the dog back across the path more quickly. 4. I coast past at the aimed-for edge, with the rear hub making a soothing honey-bee buzz tone, and a big grin on my face. Some days can be fun on the MUP. |
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