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Assos and Rapha Bib shorts...are they really that good?

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Assos and Rapha Bib shorts...are they really that good?

Old 10-13-15, 07:05 AM
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Originally Posted by DaveWC View Post
So given that saddles used to be more comfortable, but are now sleeker & lighter, shorts are required to pick up the slack. So when someone asks whether Assos/Rapha are cushioned, the statement that shorts aren't for cushioning makes little sense. Even your analysis of the current situation states that they in fact are "for cushioning". The fact that you think it's a shame is something else.

There's nothing wrong with stating opposing opinions. When you state it in such a way that you term it as an irrefutable fact you may get responses like mine. Especially when your followup response to the statement shows that your thinking was muddled at best.
Opinions are supposed to be irrefutable facts...to the guy who owns the opinion. And they are supposed to be expressed that way. It is not up to me to degrade my own opinion. That is your job, and I welcome you going after it. But don't expect me to help you out.

I know that I am dealing with a very difficult personality when a discussion morphs from the facts of the subject to my rhetorical style. That is just an attempt by my opponent to manipulate the situation to their advantage without the real facts to do so. I see lots of that around here; it is kind of epidemic. That's too bad really, but I can't fix it. You have to do that.

Regarding the original topic, at least the one WE were discussing, there is no muddled thinking. Better, that is slightly more padded, saddles are still available. If you choose to buy one, as I suggest, then you can be much less picky about your shorts. Funny thing is that the more comfy saddles are also cheaper than the higher-up-the-line, less padded ones. So if you go back just a little bit toward the past way of doing things, you can save money on your saddle and on your shorts. Wouldn't that be fine?
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Old 10-13-15, 07:18 AM
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Originally Posted by rpenmanparker View Post
Regarding the original topic, at least the one WE were discussing, there is no muddled thinking. Better, that is slightly more padded, saddles are still available. If you choose to buy one, as I suggest, then you can be much less picky about your shorts. Funny thing is that the more comfy saddles are also cheaper than the higher-up-the-line, less padded ones. So if you go back just a little bit toward the past way of doing things, you can save money on your saddle and on your shorts. Wouldn't that be fine?
I know that for myself, once I found "my" saddle, the shorts didn't matter hardly at all. For some that may be a more padded saddle, for some it's a cutout style saddle, and for some it's a medium to not much padding at all. But either way, proper bike fit and a proper saddle (EDIT: Proper for the individual that is) really opens up your bib and/or NOT BIBS shorts options.

What I'm saying is that I AGREE WITH YOU. I typed it in all caps and everything.
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Old 10-13-15, 07:21 AM
  #53  
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Originally Posted by rpenmanparker View Post
Regarding the original topic, at least the one WE were discussing, there is no muddled thinking. Better, that is slightly more padded, saddles are still available. If you choose to buy one, as I suggest, then you can be much less picky about your shorts. Funny thing is that the more comfy saddles are also cheaper than the higher-up-the-line, less padded ones. So if you go back just a little bit toward the past way of doing things, you can save money on your saddle and on your shorts. Wouldn't that be fine?
I agree that padded saddles are available, but IMO they are hardly better. I've tried many, as well as many types of cycling bibs/shorts. I settled on the SLR saddle with minimal cushion, very little to degrade over time, and cycling shorts with a cushioned chamois. Of the shorts I tried the Assos are the best. I can save money because I can ride any bike with these shorts & the comfort of the ride is improved. My Trek FX has a crap saddle but I don't ride it as much nor for as long ride so I live with it & thanks to the shorts I own, it's still comfortable enough. I also visit a friend in another city & borrow his bike & because my shorts are comfortable his bike works for me even though I hate the saddle.

As to the topic that the OP was discussing, Assos makes great shorts. The value is dependent on the person paying the money.
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Old 10-13-15, 07:32 AM
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Originally Posted by DaveWC View Post
The value is dependent on the person paying the money.
Wow. I wish I had a t-shirt that said that when I was selling bikes. I'd be pointing at it all day. "Normals" flip out when they realize a bike can cost more than one whole thousand dollars.
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Old 10-13-15, 07:37 AM
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Originally Posted by rpenmanparker View Post
Opinions are supposed to be irrefutable facts...to the guy who owns the opinion. And they are supposed to be expressed that way. It is not up to me to degrade my own opinion. That is your job, and I welcome you going after it. But don't expect me to help you out.

I know that I am dealing with a very difficult personality when a discussion morphs from the facts of the subject to my rhetorical style. That is just an attempt by my opponent to manipulate the situation to their advantage without the real facts to do so. I see lots of that around here; it is kind of epidemic. That's too bad really, but I can't fix it. You have to do that.

Regarding the original topic, at least the one WE were discussing, there is no muddled thinking. Better, that is slightly more padded, saddles are still available. If you choose to buy one, as I suggest, then you can be much less picky about your shorts. Funny thing is that the more comfy saddles are also cheaper than the higher-up-the-line, less padded ones. So if you go back just a little bit toward the past way of doing things, you can save money on your saddle and on your shorts. Wouldn't that be fine?
I know I am jumping in here and derailing the thread even more so, but it's already jumped off the tracks and crashed so why not.

We have had our butting head conversations in the past. I'm a good guy and I genuinely believe you along with most everybody on this forum is as well. That being said, I say this with the upmost respect.


Have you ever noticed that in each thread you are a part of, it gets derailed by your debates? Yes you are entitled to an opinion, but conversations seem to get stomped into something that can't even be recognized at the end of it because you lead it so far away by trying to back your opinion with facts and figures. It's exhausting. You say that you know yiu are dealing with a very difficult personality when...

Have you ever stopped to think that maybe you are the one with the difficult personality? Not attacking what so ever, again just making a statement. In most conversations that you take part in, you are a common denominator in why a thread gets so far off base. You are obviously very smart. Smarter than myself, that I can positively admit, but you don't always have to try and prove everything.

There are a lot of people like this on the forum, I'm not just picking on you. There are so many people like this, that it pushed me away from taking part in this forum for a while. It can be exhausting to post something and always have it turned into a debate. Yes I understand that 1 opinion opens the door to a rebudle, but it doesn't always have to.

Again, really not trying to attack you personally and if I have done so, I apologize because that wasn't my intention here. I was just making a statement on how it comes across sometimes.
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Old 10-13-15, 07:53 AM
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Originally Posted by WalksOn2Wheels View Post
I know that for myself, once I found "my" saddle, the shorts didn't matter hardly at all. For some that may be a more padded saddle, for some it's a cutout style saddle, and for some it's a medium to not much padding at all. But either way, proper bike fit and a proper saddle (EDIT: Proper for the individual that is) really opens up your bib and/or NOT BIBS shorts options.

What I'm saying is that I AGREE WITH YOU. I typed it in all caps and everything.
Thanks for the caps. With my aged eyesight, I might have missed it otherwise. Seriously, I think you are making a lot of sense.
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Old 10-13-15, 08:17 AM
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Originally Posted by bianchi10 View Post
I know I am jumping in here and derailing the thread even more so, but it's already jumped off the tracks and crashed so why not.

We have had our butting head conversations in the past. I'm a good guy and I genuinely believe you along with most everybody on this forum is as well. That being said, I say this with the upmost respect.


Have you ever noticed that in each thread you are a part of, it gets derailed by your debates? Yes you are entitled to an opinion, but conversations seem to get stomped into something that can't even be recognized at the end of it because you lead it so far away by trying to back your opinion with facts and figures. It's exhausting. You say that you know yiu are dealing with a very difficult personality when...

Have you ever stopped to think that maybe you are the one with the difficult personality? Not attacking what so ever, again just making a statement. In most conversations that you take part in, you are a common denominator in why a thread gets so far off base. You are obviously very smart. Smarter than myself, that I can positively admit, but you don't always have to try and prove everything.

There are a lot of people like this on the forum, I'm not just picking on you. There are so many people like this, that it pushed me away from taking part in this forum for a while. It can be exhausting to post something and always have it turned into a debate. Yes I understand that 1 opinion opens the door to a rebudle, but it doesn't always have to.

Again, really not trying to attack you personally and if I have done so, I apologize because that wasn't my intention here. I was just making a statement on how it comes across sometimes.
Nick, no problem. I always appreciate your commentary...even when it is critical of me. Seriously, it is all good.

Let me make two points. First if I see a question asked that is based on what I think are false premises, I feel it is consistent with the thread intent to correct the premises. So in this example, OP suggested he needed very good padded shorts due to saddle discomfort. Then he asked whether Rapha and Assos would do the job. You're right that I had no direct answer to his question. Should I have stayed out? Not the way I think. If I can show OP he doesn't need that level of shorts, then his question becomes moot. That is the intent of my initial post. I can't control what happens after that. If folks want to debate that question, to me it becomes an important aspect of the thread. I don't see it as harmful especially when OP's actual question is getting answered as well. It is not that the thread is on a different track. I like to think of it as a broader track.

Also OP has a responsibility here to keep things in line. If he doesn't want to hear about other ways to solve his saddle comfort issue, he can certainly pipe up and say so. I will admit when someone else comes back in to reopen the side-issue I broached, well, it is hard for me to resist coming back in on it myself. That doesn't mean I'm not trying, however.

Wouldn't this forum thing be awfully dry if questions like OP's were just answered, "Yes." Or "No." I think the peculiar path of this thread is very instructive no matter what conclusion you finally arrive at. YMMV
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Old 10-13-15, 08:20 AM
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Originally Posted by rpenmanparker View Post
Opinions are supposed to be irrefutable facts...to the guy who owns the opinion. And they are supposed to be expressed that way. It is not up to me to degrade my own opinion. That is your job, and I welcome you going after it. But don't expect me to help you out.

I know that I am dealing with a very difficult personality when a discussion morphs from the facts of the subject to my rhetorical style. That is just an attempt by my opponent to manipulate the situation to their advantage without the real facts to do so. I see lots of that around here; it is kind of epidemic. That's too bad really, but I can't fix it. You have to do that.
Pompous, self-important, hypocritical BS. Opinions are manifestly not supposed to be irrefutable facts. If the facts were irrefutable opinions would be immaterial. One has opinions only when there is room for disagreement either about the facts, or about how they should be interpreted. Only those who are arrogant enough to be irredeemably lacking in self-awareness think their opinions are always right, let alone irrefutable.

Moreover, your attack on the "difficult personality" who has challenged your nonsense is exactly the sort of manipulative behaviour you pretend to find so unacceptable. Transparent, too.

Back on-topic, you're talkng rubbish about the padded seats of old. People were riding and racing Brooks team pro saddles (among many others of similar style) decades ago. They weren't, and aren't, padded, so to suggest that an absence of padding is some foolish modern aberration is simply absurd. And of course the chamois in modern bibs is for cushionng as well as preventing abrasion and moisture management. Cushioning is not their main purpose, but the fact that they are cushioned helps.
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Old 10-13-15, 08:27 AM
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Originally Posted by chasm54 View Post
Pompous, self-important, hypocritical BS. Opinions are manifestly not supposed to be irrefutable facts. If the facts were irrefutable opinions would be immaterial. One has opinions only when there is room for disagreement either about the facts, or about how they should be interpreted. Only those who are arrogant enough to be irredeemably lacking in self-awareness think their opinions are always right, let alone irrefutable.

Moreover, your attack on the "difficult personality" who has challenged your nonsense is exactly the sort of manipulative behaviour you pretend to find so unacceptable. Transparent, too.

Back on-topic, you're talkng rubbish about the padded seats of old. People were riding and racing Brooks team pro saddles (among many others of similar style) decades ago. They weren't, and aren't, padded, so to suggest that an absence of padding is some foolish modern aberration is simply absurd. And of course the chamois in modern bibs is for cushionng as well as preventing abrasion and moisture management. Cushioning is not their main purpose, but the fact that they are cushioned helps.
I will ignore all the bashing stuff and just get to your Brooks comment. I agree with you. I should have mentioned Brooks. It is not padded, but due to its design and choice of materials it provides comfort in a similar, some say superior, way. So wherever I said slightly more padded, you can substitute Brooks. The conclusion is the same. With a good saddle, padding in the shorts becomes much less significant. And it is also true that the need for more padding in the shorts evolved from the departure from both adequately padded saddles and Brooks type saddles. Good catch. Thanks.
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Old 10-13-15, 08:32 AM
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Back to the OPs question. I don't know about Rapha, but for me, Assos are worth every penny. I use plenty of cheaper bibs, and some of them are fine, but none of them come close to Assos for long days in the saddle. The longer and harder one rides, the more the superiority of the Assos bihs becomes evident. They ade very expensive, no doubt about it, but they are superior to everything else I have tried.
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Old 10-13-15, 08:34 AM
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Originally Posted by Billy1111 View Post
Wow my bad, I really thought they were multi-use, for cushion and protection. I've only been riding a year so forgive me
Assos shorts offer cushionion and abrasion protection


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Old 10-13-15, 08:34 AM
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Okay, stopped reading the back and forth. I've never used either brand, but I've never really heard anything negative about them other than complaints about price or a perceived associated culture. I have read a few posts of people who didn't like the fit, but clothing lines aren't going to fit everyone since we're all different. I say give them a try.
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Old 10-13-15, 08:35 AM
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Originally Posted by rpenmanparker View Post
OP suggested he needed very good padded shorts due to saddle discomfort.

But did he? Really? Or is that just how you interpreted his desire to get new bib shorts that provide excellent cushioning because his current choices really aren't cutting it? This thread is sounding more & more like the Di2 thread where you misunderstood the intent of the OP & knew nothing about the subject but plowed ahead regardless.
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Old 10-13-15, 08:39 AM
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Originally Posted by DaveWC View Post
But did he? Really? Or is that just how you interpreted his desire to get new bib shorts that provide excellent cushioning because his current choices really aren't cutting it? This thread is sounding more & more like the Di2 thread where you misunderstood the intent of the OP & knew nothing about the subject but plowed ahead regardless.
Good point, buy can you think of another reason for wanting good padding in shorts? To absorb urine if you can't stop to pee?
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Old 10-13-15, 08:43 AM
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Originally Posted by rpenmanparker View Post
Good point, buy can you think of another reason for wanting good padding in shorts? To absorb urine if you can't stop to pee?
As I said earlier, I love my saddle. It is the most comfortable saddle I have tried by far. But I still like & own good shorts. I might not refer to them as excellent cushioning shorts, and it sounds like the OP is relatively new & may have described them in a way that he didn't mean. I think what he meant is that he wanted to know if Assos/Rapha shorts are as comfortable as advertised. To me that's a reasonable question and doesn't in any way imply that his saddle is insufficient to his needs. I know that my ride is more comfortable when I use my Assos then when I don't. As I described earlier, I believe that both the saddle & the shorts play a role in providing comfort. Nowhere does "cushioning" fit into the equation nor do I use that word to describe either piece of equipment.
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Old 10-13-15, 08:46 AM
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Originally Posted by DaveWC View Post
As I said earlier, I love my saddle. It is the most comfortable saddle I have tried by far. But I still like & own good shorts. I might not refer to them as excellent cushioning shorts, and it sounds like the OP is relatively new & may have described them in a way that he didn't mean. I think what he meant is that he wanted to know if Assos/Rapha shorts are as comfortable as advertised. To me that's a reasonable question and doesn't in any way imply that his saddle is insufficient to his needs. I know that my ride is more comfortable when I use my Assos then when I don't. As I described earlier, I believe that both the saddle & the shorts play a role in providing comfort. Nowhere does "cushioning" fit into the equation nor do I use that word to describe either piece of equipment.
Fair enough.
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Old 10-13-15, 08:56 AM
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Originally Posted by Billy1111 View Post
Im searching for new bib short that provide excellent cushioning. Right now I have Sportful Giro and Giordana Silverline bibs and they really aren't cutting it. I have read such great reviews on the Assos and Raphas....so do u guys think they are worth the coin?
The Assos Mille S5 can be purchased for $154 online....see link. The Mille padding is quite dense and while pantywaistes might take offense at the unflattering appearance whilst posing and sipping latte, there are plenty of long distance riders who swear by the old S5 Milles. I have ridden countless rides over 200 miles in them and as much as I like these older previous model bibs, the Assos Cento S7 is by far the most comfortable padded shorts that I have ridden. As mentioned in an earlier post, I wore one pair of the S7 bibs for 54 hours straight during my nonstop PBP. I had zero soreness from chafing or bruising. The Berthoud Aravis leather saddle and laniseptic played a role as well. If the OP is able to bite the bullet on the ridiculous cost of Assos shorts, give them a try. The Centos can be purchased in England with free shipping for around $250....please google, I forget the retailer.


Men's Padded Cycling Bib Shorts Sale - Cheapest Prices Online | ASSOS Official Factory Outlet
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Old 10-13-15, 12:39 PM
  #68  
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I prefer the bottom of the line rapha bibs (I think they're called pros) over the bottom of the line assos bibs (I think they're called unos). The rapha chamois pad is a little bit thicker, which i like.
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Old 10-13-15, 06:53 PM
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thanx for all the input, I ordered a pair from that asso outlet someone posted the link to (thank u) and have them coming tomorrow...incredible fast shipping!!
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Old 10-14-15, 11:37 AM
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Originally Posted by rpenmanparker View Post
Better, that is slightly more padded, saddles are still available. If you choose to buy one, as I suggest, then you can be much less picky about your shorts.
You make the incorrect assumption about why one buys a higher end bib - that it's all about the cushion. In the case of some people, and I am one, that is not the issue. FOR ME (and I can only base my observations on my own experience, which may differ for others) the success or failure of a pair of bibs doesn't just come from the quality of the chamois. It comes from how the stitching is done, what the chamois/bib interface is like, etc. Seams, rough edges - that is what causes skin breaks for me and can lead to bad problems. Where the edge of the chamois is, how that interfaces with saddle, etc. I have had better luck with higher end brands. That is my experience. Say what you want, but it won't change what I have observed in my own riding.
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Old 10-14-15, 11:49 AM
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Originally Posted by JakiChan View Post
You make the incorrect assumption about why one buys a higher end bib - that it's all about the cushion. In the case of some people, and I am one, that is not the issue. FOR ME (and I can only base my observations on my own experience, which may differ for others) the success or failure of a pair of bibs doesn't just come from the quality of the chamois. It comes from how the stitching is done, what the chamois/bib interface is like, etc. Seams, rough edges - that is what causes skin breaks for me and can lead to bad problems. Where the edge of the chamois is, how that interfaces with saddle, etc. I have had better luck with higher end brands. That is my experience. Say what you want, but it won't change what I have observed in my own riding.
Why would I want to change what you have observed in you own riding? OP specifically asked about cushioning, so therefore all my comments were directed to that aspect of high end shorts. I do try to provide useful information on the topic raised by the OP...sometimes.
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