Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Road Cycling
Reload this Page >

Why all the internal cable routing hate?

Notices
Road Cycling “It is by riding a bicycle that you learn the contours of a country best, since you have to sweat up the hills and coast down them. Thus you remember them as they actually are, while in a motor car only a high hill impresses you, and you have no such accurate remembrance of country you have driven through as you gain by riding a bicycle.” -- Ernest Hemingway

Why all the internal cable routing hate?

Old 04-25-22, 11:44 AM
  #76  
datlas 
Beyond Bogus
 
datlas's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Malvern, PA (20 miles West of Philly)
Posts: 38,026

Bikes: 1986 Alpine (steel road bike), 2009 Ti Habenero, 2013 Specialized Roubaix

Mentioned: 524 Post(s)
Tagged: 2 Thread(s)
Quoted: 17842 Post(s)
Liked 4,980 Times in 2,429 Posts
Originally Posted by mstateglfr View Post
Its aged just fine. Internal cables are still largely a total waste on 95% of consumer bikes that have them as the stated performance reason, aero, is total BS. Hey the cables need to be internal because its aero, but that trendy handlebar bag that catches wind can stay? Internal cable routing is much better now than it was a handful of years ago because brands have improve design to make the routing not nearly as clusterF'd. If you read threads, some of the internal routing has been a nightmare with crazy bends and poor design.

As for integrated cables, they look neat and as a nightmare to set up compared to external. They just are. Headsets needed to be redesigned. If you want to change the stem length, stem height, or stem angle you either cant or you need all new cables, housing, and hoses. It is time consuming and costly. But it looks slick and can save 3 watts over 60min at 45kmph so its obviously needed.***

A design that was simple to set up, adjust, and service is now complicated, time consuming, and more expensive. Progress!
Of course you are correct. And I am keeping my external-cabled Habanero as long as possible, because it's stupid easy for my idiot mechanic (me) to set up and service.
__________________
Originally Posted by rjones28 View Post
Addiction is all about class.
datlas is online now  
Old 04-25-22, 11:55 AM
  #77  
sjanzeir
Keeling over.
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Jeddah, Saudi Arabia
Posts: 1,093

Bikes: 1990 Raleigh Flyer (size 21"); 2014 Trek 7.6 FX (size 15"); 2014 Trek 7.6 FX (size 17.5"); 2019 Dahon Mu D9; 2020 Dahon Hemingway D9

Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 493 Post(s)
Liked 1,028 Times in 316 Posts
Originally Posted by mstateglfr View Post
I just find it funny that something is advertised as aero and then a bag is hung from the front or a race number is hung from the front and all claimed benefits are totally gone.
All those fresh graduates in marketing and advertising need jobs after all...
sjanzeir is offline  
Old 04-25-22, 12:37 PM
  #78  
79pmooney
A Roadie Forever
 
79pmooney's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 10,425

Bikes: (2) ti TiCycles, 2007 w/ triple and 2011 fixed, 1979 Peter Mooney, ~1983 Trek 420 now fixed and ~1973 Raleigh Carlton Competition gravel grinder

Mentioned: 113 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3408 Post(s)
Liked 2,165 Times in 1,407 Posts
I have as bike where internal cables (well, it's a fix gear so just one cable) would be an inconvenience at the least and potential nightmare for how I use the bike. I have both "road" and "climbing cockpits. Road - traditional drop bars, just over shoulder width wide, regular brake levers cabled to SunTour Superbe calipers. The climbing setup is very different. Deeper pista bars, V-brake road levers with huge hoods my hands love when honking up steep hills and cabled to dual pivots to get the brake power back up.

I often swap cockpits on impulse after changing my mind on where I feel like riding. Takes less than 5 minutes. 5mm Allen to undo the rear brake cable and the caliper. 10mm wrench to remove both calipers. Pull rear brake housing out through the three TT housing guides. 6mm Allen to pull the stem out with rear cabling and whole front brake system. Hang handlebar on rack and grab the other bar. Repeat in reverse. Running the rear housing is easy and fast, always. If I had to pull a guide wire/string through, this simply would not work. The time would come when I'd forget, it'd break or detach. Yes, my fault, but also a ride ender. And means focusing attention to something that could be as simple as choosing my shoes and putting them on.

I love the three exterior housing guides and full length rear housing for two other reasons. It adds "sponge" to the rear brake action, meaning that I am less likely to lock the rear wheel up in hard stops. I can do roughly equal pulls of each brake and get very predictable (and very good) braking power. Also transitions from housing to bare cable and back are the sources of issues like kinking and rust. Additional housing guides beyond the stops alleviate that, but now there are more fixtures to braze and paint around than my 3 guides. That bare cable is also nasty to paint and decals when you pick up the bike not thinking. Yes, running internally alleviates that last point but ... I've heard of internal guides coming loose and rattling and I knew someone years ago who'd regularly break his frames at the rear brake cable exit. Get an new one under warranty and repeat. (Rant, rant! )
79pmooney is offline  
Old 04-25-22, 02:37 PM
  #79  
jackb
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Missoula, Montana
Posts: 632

Bikes: Trek Domane SL5, Trek Checkpoint SL5, Cannndale Trail SE 4, Specialized Langster

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 126 Post(s)
Liked 78 Times in 40 Posts
There is internal cabling and there is internal cabling. The older internal cabling bikes have the cables bowing out at the handlbars before they are routed into the bike frame. Some newer bikes don't have any cable bowing out as the cables go dirctly from under the handlebar tape right into the stem or steerer tube. I watched a Cycling Weekly video in which the cables that go into the stem are so involved in the engineering design that simply changing a stem requires complicated mechanical work that takes a couple of hours. I don't know if this is true for the cables that go directly into the steerer tube.

This cable thing strikes me as it does other people on the forum, a technological development designed to make older bikes appear obsolete and new bikes on the cutting edge of development. No need to buy a new bike because of cable routing. If you like to maintain your own bikes, simpler is always better. I don't even like hydraulic brakes. Now I have to bleed the lines, a PIA to say the least. Mechanical brakes have always stopped me and presented no maintenance hassles.
jackb is offline  
Old 04-25-22, 05:59 PM
  #80  
rjones28 
Mostly Harmless
 
rjones28's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Chittenango, NY
Posts: 53,259

Bikes: Have two wheels

Mentioned: 168 Post(s)
Tagged: 2 Thread(s)
Quoted: 11299 Post(s)
Liked 2,627 Times in 1,565 Posts
Originally Posted by maartendc View Post
For your rear brake.
Hydraulic lines don't contain cables.
__________________
Originally Posted by patentcad View Post
If this thread doesn't go 10 pages I'm quitting BF.
rjones28 is offline  
Old 04-25-22, 07:17 PM
  #81  
the sci guy 
bill nyecycles
 
the sci guy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Houston TX
Posts: 3,287
Mentioned: 19 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 759 Post(s)
Liked 301 Times in 167 Posts
As a person who constantly likes to tinker with my bike and change bars, stems, tape, cranks, whatever - including changing cable colors depending on my mood and color design for the summer, I find internal cabling annoying as hell. I also don't really care for the shape/aesthetics design of some of the newer totally internalized stems/headsets/spacers/ and as a home bike mechanic I resent the complexity of the newer designs when it comes to doing your own work at home. I like taking an afternoon reworking a whole bike or a tune up, but I don't want to spend 3 hours just futzing with cables in a steerer tube.
__________________
Twitter@theSurlyBiker
Instagram@theSurlyBiker
the sci guy is offline  
Old 04-27-22, 12:16 AM
  #82  
ZHVelo
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2020
Location: Zurich, Switzerland
Posts: 711
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 423 Post(s)
Liked 181 Times in 133 Posts
Originally Posted by mstateglfr View Post
I have yet to catch a cable on something, but sure I could see that being a concern.
My comment about bar bags was moreso directed at gravel where aero design elements are all the rage. I just find it funny that something is advertised as aero and then a bag is hung from the front or a race number is hung from the front and all claimed benefits are totally gone. With that said, I have seen bar bags on aero road bikes too...I am guessing they are used when someone is riding with friends on a weekend bar ride or something like that?

Smartphones are more complex than an old Nokia, but they also provide significant measurable benefits that have shown to be wanted by almost all users. Integrated cables just look neat. Thats it. If that is whats most important, then cool get the bike with integrated cables, but as of now there are not significant measurable benefits to having integrated cables.
I catch my cable on my city bike almost every time I put it back into its stand in my buildings bike room. Because everything is so tight and the handlebars so wide (of all the surrounding bikes). Massively annoying. Right, so it is an exception when this is done and that means the entire concept is silly?

Wanted or thrust upon us? What about electric cars? Certainly heavily advertised but given today's electric grid in many countries, they don't make that much sense. Also, they are far more expensive than normal cars. These things happen all the time.

Keep your cables showing. I gladly ride my clean looking integrated bike.
ZHVelo is offline  
Old 04-27-22, 06:55 AM
  #83  
tendency
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 355
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 179 Post(s)
Liked 101 Times in 66 Posts
It's a classic case of solving a problem that didnt exist - like many of the supposed 'upgrades' and 'improvements' to bikes over the past 15 years. Take for example disc brakes - great on mountain bikes where you need the improved stopping power and modulation - but on road bikes? Not so much. Same for electric shifting. But then again - I'm a retro grouch
tendency is offline  
Old 04-27-22, 07:01 AM
  #84  
Kapusta
Advanced Slacker
 
Kapusta's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 5,441

Bikes: Soma Fog Cutter, Surly Wednesday, Turner 5-Spot, Canfielld Tilt

Mentioned: 26 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2402 Post(s)
Liked 2,030 Times in 1,133 Posts
All hassle, zero benefit IMO.

What I find the real hassle is not so much the routing itself (though that is more unnecessary work) It is the fact that I cannot remove (or install) a shifter/derailleur, brake caliper/lever, or dropper post/lever as one unit. They have to be disconnected.

In the case of cables, it is a little hassle. In the case of hydraulic brakes, it means a bleed, and with my maguras, it means several bleeds.

As far as the benefit of not getting cables caught on things… the place they are most likely to get caught is around the bars, or in the last few inches before RD… which internal frame routing does not even address.

I guess what I find so silly about internal is that it hides the sections that least benefit from it (both visually and practically).
Kapusta is online now  
Old 04-27-22, 08:38 AM
  #85  
mstateglfr 
Sunshine
 
mstateglfr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Des Moines, IA
Posts: 14,423

Bikes: '18 class built steel roadbike, '19 Fairlight Secan, '88 Schwinn Premis , Black Mountain Cycles Monstercross V4, '89 Novara Trionfo

Mentioned: 115 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8035 Post(s)
Liked 4,958 Times in 2,877 Posts
Originally Posted by ZHVelo View Post
I catch my cable on my city bike almost every time I put it back into its stand in my buildings bike room. Because everything is so tight and the handlebars so wide (of all the surrounding bikes). Massively annoying. Right, so it is an exception when this is done and that means the entire concept is silly?

Wanted or thrust upon us? What about electric cars? Certainly heavily advertised but given today's electric grid in many countries, they don't make that much sense. Also, they are far more expensive than normal cars. These things happen all the time.

Keep your cables showing. I gladly ride my clean looking integrated bike.
You keep an integrated cable bike in a group bike room? That is bold since integrated cable bikes are usually $3k and up.
As for internally cabled bikes, your situation is an exception. I would bet not many need internally routed cables(I assume it would be a downtube cable that catches?) due to storing their bike in a group bike room that lacks space. That just seems like an issue which is not typical. Regardless, it is an issue and its great that internally routed cables help solve your frustration.
mstateglfr is offline  
Old 04-27-22, 12:43 PM
  #86  
ZHVelo
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2020
Location: Zurich, Switzerland
Posts: 711
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 423 Post(s)
Liked 181 Times in 133 Posts
Originally Posted by mstateglfr View Post
You keep an integrated cable bike in a group bike room? That is bold since integrated cable bikes are usually $3k and up.
As for internally cabled bikes, your situation is an exception. I would bet not many need internally routed cables(I assume it would be a downtube cable that catches?) due to storing their bike in a group bike room that lacks space. That just seems like an issue which is not typical. Regardless, it is an issue and its great that internally routed cables help solve your frustration.
It is very much a thing where I live that people have a bike room in the building. And no, I don't keep it there, I was pointing out a situation where hanging cables is an annoyance. But I am glad you are super happy with your external cables, so glad with them in fact that you don't need to attack another type of bike cabling.
ZHVelo is offline  
Old 04-27-22, 09:10 PM
  #87  
seypat
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 7,049
Mentioned: 65 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2374 Post(s)
Liked 1,404 Times in 920 Posts
Originally Posted by ZHVelo View Post
It is very much a thing where I live that people have a bike room in the building. And no, I don't keep it there, I was pointing out a situation where hanging cables is an annoyance. But I am glad you are super happy with your external cables, so glad with them in fact that you don't need to attack another type of bike cabling.
The OP, then person who dug up the grave, was/is interested in why people are hating on internal cables. Every poster responding is simply answering the question with the exception of you. If a person doesn't have any hate for internal cabling, then no need to respond. Simple as that.
seypat is offline  
Old 04-28-22, 01:58 AM
  #88  
sjanzeir
Keeling over.
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Jeddah, Saudi Arabia
Posts: 1,093

Bikes: 1990 Raleigh Flyer (size 21"); 2014 Trek 7.6 FX (size 15"); 2014 Trek 7.6 FX (size 17.5"); 2019 Dahon Mu D9; 2020 Dahon Hemingway D9

Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 493 Post(s)
Liked 1,028 Times in 316 Posts
I'm the person who dug up the grave. And I dug up the grave not because I was interested in why people are hating on internal cables - I know why I hate internal cables and that's all the reason I need - but because I was interested in hating on the people who invented internal cable routing and the ones who thought that internal cable routing on a folding bike was a good idea. What I would really like to say about those people and do to them is unprintable and most likely ground for a permanent ban, so let's just leave it at that.
sjanzeir is offline  
Old 04-28-22, 05:56 AM
  #89  
ZHVelo
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2020
Location: Zurich, Switzerland
Posts: 711
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 423 Post(s)
Liked 181 Times in 133 Posts
Originally Posted by seypat View Post
The OP, then person who dug up the grave, was/is interested in why people are hating on internal cables. Every poster responding is simply answering the question with the exception of you. If a person doesn't have any hate for internal cabling, then no need to respond. Simple as that.
Ah my bad, I did indeed fail to notice this is a thread for whining people who want to complain about a feature that they don't need buy. Bye then.
ZHVelo is offline  
Old 04-28-22, 06:07 AM
  #90  
sjanzeir
Keeling over.
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Jeddah, Saudi Arabia
Posts: 1,093

Bikes: 1990 Raleigh Flyer (size 21"); 2014 Trek 7.6 FX (size 15"); 2014 Trek 7.6 FX (size 17.5"); 2019 Dahon Mu D9; 2020 Dahon Hemingway D9

Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 493 Post(s)
Liked 1,028 Times in 316 Posts
Originally Posted by ZHVelo View Post
Ah my bad, I did indeed fail to notice this is a thread for whining people who want to complain about a feature that they don't need buy. Bye then.
It's a bug, not a feature.
sjanzeir is offline  
Old 04-28-22, 06:20 AM
  #91  
eduskator
Senior Member
 
eduskator's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: Québec, Canada
Posts: 1,190

Bikes: TCR Pro, Revolt Adv

Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 503 Post(s)
Liked 305 Times in 231 Posts
Originally Posted by sjanzeir View Post
Because it sucks.
Helping reviving this dead thread...

It depends on how the ICR is built / engineered IMO. Some companies (Giant, for instance) do s*ck. LBS hate to perform maintenance on Propels because of this.

I am a fan of hidden cables when the whole thing is flawless. Wireless shifters makes it even easier.
eduskator is offline  
Old 04-28-22, 06:43 AM
  #92  
sjanzeir
Keeling over.
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Jeddah, Saudi Arabia
Posts: 1,093

Bikes: 1990 Raleigh Flyer (size 21"); 2014 Trek 7.6 FX (size 15"); 2014 Trek 7.6 FX (size 17.5"); 2019 Dahon Mu D9; 2020 Dahon Hemingway D9

Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 493 Post(s)
Liked 1,028 Times in 316 Posts
My lousy experience with internal cable routing dates back to the 1990s with my old, early 90s gaspipe Raleigh; with that thing's rear brake cable having been routed through the top tube, the slits were cut a little too narrow. They probably chose to route the cable that way more as a cost cutting measure than some engineering breakthrough, to save on having to weld lugs to the exterior of the frame (this was what was known at the time as a "300-dollar bike.") Heck, they did even bother to use rubber grommets for the slits! You would think that wiggling a cable housing into a straight pipe and out the other end should be simple enough for a human with some basic mental capacity, but every time I had to change out the cable, the narrow slits would peel the coating off and expose the coil. Expletives would ensue, with a corroded cable following soon after. ICR is FUBAR, IMHO.
sjanzeir is offline  
Old 04-28-22, 02:03 PM
  #93  
ZHVelo
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2020
Location: Zurich, Switzerland
Posts: 711
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 423 Post(s)
Liked 181 Times in 133 Posts
Originally Posted by sjanzeir View Post
It's a bug, not a feature.
Can't be a bug if users want it. If it wouldn't sell at all, they would stop making it.
ZHVelo is offline  
Old 06-04-22, 03:30 PM
  #94  
guisar
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Salem, MA
Posts: 42

Bikes: 2000 Habenero Road, 2022 Habnaero gravel, 2005 Spicer touring

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5 Post(s)
Liked 3 Times in 3 Posts
Originally Posted by datlas View Post
Of course you are correct. And I am keeping my external-cabled Habanero as long as possible, because it's stupid easy for my idiot mechanic (me) to set up and service.
Ha! I think every builder and mechanic would 1000% agree with this, internal cabling is a PITA to setup. While we offer it on our road bike we're redesigning with a focus on making it trival to setup and maintain. Atm, cabling takes longer than the rest of the bike to build.
guisar is offline  
Old 06-10-22, 12:08 PM
  #95  
burnthesheep
Newbie racer
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Posts: 3,270

Bikes: Propel, red is faster

Mentioned: 33 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1503 Post(s)
Liked 1,450 Times in 905 Posts
Lol.........etap plus hydraulic. Wireless and never have to run a brake cable/housing. Retro grouches won't even worry about that, but still........if folks care about this then hydraulic brakes and electronic shifting resolves the many sins of internal routed mechanical shifting and braking.

So if we're talking "mechanical shift, mechanical braking".........I can sow some hate. I despise it. Squishy shifting and brake feel for the aesthetic or the tiny bit of aero. For electronic and hydraulic.........why not? Set and forget.
burnthesheep is offline  
Related Topics
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
kmmalek
Bicycle Mechanics
1
07-20-19 04:51 PM
evrythngsgngrn
Bicycle Mechanics
13
03-07-14 03:00 PM
X-LinkedRider
Bicycle Mechanics
26
02-26-13 06:46 AM
Entrymax
Bicycle Mechanics
5
09-10-12 09:12 PM
xkillemallx16
Bicycle Mechanics
3
08-14-12 11:09 AM

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information -

Copyright © 2021 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.