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Bicycling Magazine and Carbon Knocks Offs

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Bicycling Magazine and Carbon Knocks Offs

Old 10-17-15, 11:15 AM
  #51  
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ha! yeah if you can find it buried in some of the most inane ridiculous things you can imagine!
Originally Posted by datlas View Post
Better bike info on Bike Forums than "Bicycling" magazine. By far.
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Old 10-17-15, 11:22 AM
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Originally Posted by zvez View Post
wow, I just read this article and by the look of the postings in this thread, few of you did.

I found it to be one of the best articles on the subject I've read.
I haven't seen the Bicycling article in question. Do you have a link to it?
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Old 10-17-15, 11:28 AM
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I'm sorry I don't think it's online yet. I just went to their website and its not there.
Originally Posted by BoSoxYacht View Post
I haven't seen the Bicycling article in question. Do you have a link to it?
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Old 10-17-15, 11:31 AM
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my bad, I just found it. To Catch a Counterfeiter: The Sketchy World of Fake Bike Gear | Bicycling


Originally Posted by BoSoxYacht View Post
I haven't seen the Bicycling article in question. Do you have a link to it?
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Old 10-17-15, 11:38 AM
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Originally Posted by zvez View Post
thanks, I just read through it briefly.
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Old 10-17-15, 11:38 AM
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Originally Posted by BoSoxYacht View Post
I haven't seen the Bicycling article in question. Do you have a link to it?
It's basically a Specialized ad.
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Old 10-17-15, 11:40 AM
  #57  
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Originally Posted by LesterOfPuppets View Post
It's basically a Specialized ad.
I agree. The Velo News article is much better.
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Old 10-18-15, 07:48 PM
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Just a question. Why the bashing of all Chinese frames? Both articles clearly say that fakes (copies) of flagship models are dangerous. Copies.

Unless a frame is made with the same molds and same carbon layup and not authorized by the parent company, it is a fake. If a frame is made after hours, with the same molds and same carbon layup then it is a unauthorized frame. But it is a real authentic frame. Just fell off of the conveyer belt, without paint.

Now, how do you tell if the frame that you purchase is a unauthorized frame, or one made to look just like the frame you want (outright fake).
I don't know how, can someone tell me?

If you build an outright fake and plaster it with logo's to represent it as an authorized frame. Then you are a lie and a cheat! If you sell an unauthorized frame, but do not present it to be say, specialized, you are in a way stealing someones intellectual knowledge. But, the frame is still real.

Chinese companies make some really good frames on their own. They are offered to companies to buy and add to their inventory. Most do. A lot of the frames seen on ebay are just those. Factory made unbranded carbon frames. Just as good as any other carbon frame and no worse. Dengfu comes to mind.

I wish that they, the ones who write these articles would stop generalizing all Chinese frames, and just concentrate on the outright fakes. Because some of the frames offered for sale on ebay might have someone's logos on them tomorrow.
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Old 10-18-15, 08:18 PM
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I was descending on mine today at 40 mph and I survived to write another post
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Old 10-18-15, 08:25 PM
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Originally Posted by rms13 View Post
I was descending on mine today at 40 mph and I survived to write another post
Whew, dodged that bullet. Congrats!
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Old 10-19-15, 04:04 AM
  #61  
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Originally Posted by calimtb View Post
These are for profit magazines (whether they are actually profitable or not is another matter), and they rely on advertising revenue in order to stay in business.

Aside from that, they rely on these brands to supply them with bicycles, components, clothing and accessories to test.

Want to conduct an independent study on the newest, nicest enduro bikes? Say, a half dozen of them? Not unless you have an extra $72,000 lying around. Otherwise, you just might "appreciate" a few loaners. Perhaps you would show your appreciation either by giving a positive review or perhaps by denigrating the chinese competitors or both?

It's just the reality of business, it's nothing personal.
You can complain about the source until you're blue in the face but you avoided addressing anything that was in the actual article. The frames were cut up, we have actual pictures and everything for all to see with their own eyes. Advertising has nothing to do with that.

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Old 10-19-15, 05:42 AM
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Originally Posted by Lazyass View Post
You can complain about the source until you're blue in the face but you avoided addressing anything that was in the actual article. The frames were cut up, we have actual pictures and everything for all to see with their own eyes. Advertising has nothing to do with that.
Folks are saying he's banned.
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Old 10-19-15, 05:56 AM
  #63  
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Originally Posted by rms13 View Post
I was descending on mine today at 40 mph and I survived to write another post
Garmin file or it didn't happen.
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Old 10-19-15, 06:34 AM
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"The sellers, mostly from China, seem to be unconcerned with the safety of their product, or the customers who fall for the fakes."

I knew about the poison pet food, toxic toothpaste fortified with antifeeze, truck tires, lead painted toys, et.al., but I never would have thought this would apply to bicycles! I find it hard to believe they would only be iterested in our money but not our safety.
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Old 10-19-15, 07:35 AM
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Originally Posted by DaveWC View Post
Garmin file or it didn't happen.
37.1 mph but close enough

https://www.strava.com/activities/415736960
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Old 10-19-15, 07:50 AM
  #66  
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Originally Posted by okane View Post
... I find it hard to believe they would only be iterested in our money but not our safety.
You are joking, right?

This is the essence of capitalism!
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Old 10-19-15, 08:02 AM
  #67  
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Originally Posted by yooperbiker View Post
You are joking, right?

This is the essence of capitalism!
Judging by the sarcastic nature of his post, I'm sure he is joking
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Old 10-19-15, 08:10 AM
  #68  
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I certainly hope so.
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Old 10-19-15, 08:16 AM
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Originally Posted by rpenmanparker View Post
Because the general cycling public mostly isn't interested in the knock offs in the first place, the fakes. They are interested in bona fide frames made by little known factories without any labels. But due to the lack of understanding of the market, when the Chinese carbon fakes are denigrated (rightly so, make no mistake), that same brush paints the no-names and unfairly. That is where the smear is. Most folks don't understand the difference between the fakes and the genuine but unbranded frames all coming from China. Those articles should have taken great pains to make of a point of that difference. Sure a Chinarello is not a Pinarello. But a Workswell, Deng Fu or Hong Fu is just that, an genuine product made to pretty high standards. The articles did not make that clear at all.
I have to agree with you hear. I have a problem with the manufacturing and the purchasing of "knockoffs". It is stealing and it is wrong. To buy a bike that is a knockoff is simply stealing. I worry about the quality of these bikes because if they are willing to cheat and steal from the original manufacture what else are they willing to compromise on? I think that the magazines do a nice job or exposing those products.
I also agree that there is nothing wrong with a generic bike. In my opinion, those companies are not cheating or stealing. They are simply making a nameless product. If they have quality standards in place than I have no problems there. I view this the similar to purchasing a generic drug. There is one caveat there though. There is an FDA there to approve of the drug quality. In the case of a bike it is really not present. We have to rely on forums and others experience to weed out the good ones. I would not buy a generic bike for this reason, unless it was from a company like Nashbar or Ribble. I simply prefer to have peace of mind that should come with buying from a major name brand.
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Old 10-19-15, 08:47 AM
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What the Bicycling article ignores is what really caused the wave of cheap Chinese-knockoff merchandise in the first place.

REALLY cheap shipping.

You can move any good from China to the USA for a ton less money than anyone in the USA can move the same good can ship it inside the USA to a USA address. Seriously, $1-2USD and you can ship a frame or handlebar or what have you from China to the USA that would cost $50-$100+ inside the USA. And that is possible due to 'ePacket" shipping that has basically put US EBayers out of business as they cannot compete simply on shipping...and that occurred because of a mail treaty that was negotiated bizarrely by a USPS that needed more revenue.

Why did the USA USPS need more revenue? Because the Republican Party voted to defund USPS forcing them to prefund pensions-destroying their budget.....result of that political maneuver? They, the USPS, had no choice but to bend over and do the ePacket deal-which has broken into the black on costs.




If shipping from China was as exorbitantly expensive as you'd otherwise think it would be, people would stop buying the fakes for the most part.

Further the costs of manufacture in China versus the USA being $0.96 versus $1USD I seriously don't believe for a millisecond. If they were that competitive, the bike labels would move back here in a heartbeat. They don't.

Last edited by Marcus_Ti; 10-19-15 at 08:50 AM.
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Old 10-19-15, 09:22 AM
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Maybe so, but the wheel sellers from China on ebay charge $50+ to ship a set to the USA. Is that just gravy? No problem. Just wondering.
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Old 10-19-15, 09:36 AM
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Face it, I have. Knockoffs have always been around. Its called supply and demand.

People all want what they can't have. If the new Venge or Madone frame showed up on Ebay, it would be brought! It would be brought by people that know its fake! Its only $800 with $80 shipping, and I can be riding something that retails for $12,000.00 for $2000.00 invested.

It might ride far worse, or it might ride better. It might kill me tomorrow, or it might be the best bike that I ever owned. That's the crapshoot that the buyer takes when he makes that purchase.

Whats bad is the revenue lost to the person who developed the frame in the first place. The research and intellectual property are worth something! Anybody remember Stienmetz? He charged someone $10,000.00 to diagnose a problem, The customer complained because all he saw was a chalk mark. and when asked to itemize the bill, Stienmetz wrote. $1 for the chalk mark. $9,999.99 for knowing where to put that chalk mark!

Outright fakes are just wrong! I don't think the big logo's really care about your safety. They care about their bottom line. If I buy a fake. I need not buy the real thing. Money , Revenue lost!

Now the legitimate Chinese frame makers are caught up in this anti Chinese knockoff frame hysteria. When they shouldn't be! Deng fu, Hong fu, Yoleo (with that hot spokeswoman) make very good carbon frames and parts.

All of us on this forum probably has at least one part, made from these three on their bikes now.
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Old 10-19-15, 09:46 AM
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Originally Posted by rpenmanparker View Post
Maybe so, but the wheel sellers from China on ebay charge $50+ to ship a set to the USA. Is that just gravy? No problem. Just wondering.
It does?

I just did a search for "carbon wheelset 700c clincher" on EBay. The lookalike/fake/whatever unbranded wheels from China? All sub $400, all 50-80mm depth...Almost all had FREE shipping from China to the USA. Yes they take the slow boat ePacket shipping, but it is free.

Dunno where you're shopping and seeing $50 shipping. Sure there are a few, but most have El Cheapo ePacket shipping.
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Old 10-19-15, 10:48 AM
  #74  
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Originally Posted by Marcus_Ti View Post
What the Bicycling article ignores is what really caused the wave of cheap Chinese-knockoff merchandise in the first place.

REALLY cheap shipping.
The shipping cost is a major deal, and part of the reason I no import into Canada from the US. The exchange rate was a big hit too. I can see the border from my house, but it costs much much more to bring anything in from the US than from China. Strange.

But USPS is not the problem, as they are the only cost-effective shipping option remaining. The couriers charge extortionist rates, and then hit you at the border with a bunch of bogus fees and "administration" costs that have little to do with the actual duties/customs fees owing to the taxman.

Since Ebay started their "Global Shipping Program", it has been hard to avoid the couriers and their bogus fees, and so my buying through Ebay is pretty much finished.

I assume this situation goes for every country that the US tries to export to. Shipping costs too much.
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Old 10-19-15, 10:58 AM
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Originally Posted by Dave Mayer View Post
The shipping cost is a major deal, and part of the reason I no import into Canada from the US. The exchange rate was a big hit too. I can see the border from my house, but it costs much much more to bring anything in from the US than from China. Strange.

But USPS is not the problem, as they are the only cost-effective shipping option remaining. The couriers charge extortionist rates, and then hit you at the border with a bunch of bogus fees and "administration" costs that have little to do with the actual duties/customs fees owing to the taxman.

Since Ebay started their "Global Shipping Program", it has been hard to avoid the couriers and their bogus fees, and so my buying through Ebay is pretty much finished.

I assume this situation goes for every country that the US tries to export to. Shipping costs too much.
Oh contraire, they are a large part of the problem of cheapo knock-off imports:

The Postal Service is losing millions a year to help you buy cheap stuff from China - The Washington Post
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