FLOP factor in relationship to pancakes
11-13-15, 12:24 AM
#1
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FLOP factor in relationship to pancakes
This one is about how all this can be reduced to FLOP. There have been several posts (a couple by me, iin point of fact) that attempted some sort of suggestion that it's a complex model, not easily reduced to one factor.
Belief systems seem to be immune to argument.
I thought I might be looking for a frame with a particular handling trait, or I might have a problem with the way my bike handles. It appears that I started the thread simply as a place to document my ramblings. I might get some more insightful responses on the framebuilding forum, but that forum is a little less lively.
Is this a statement, or a question? As I have hands, I have never ridden without them. But can we get back to the pancakes now?
I just want to discuss frame geometry for no reason other than good discussion. My Road Bike has Low Self Esteem. Is this a function of its being floppy? I can detect no appreciable handling difference between these builds, despite their different "flops".
The real question is, why do I care?
Discuss.
Belief systems seem to be immune to argument.
I thought I might be looking for a frame with a particular handling trait, or I might have a problem with the way my bike handles. It appears that I started the thread simply as a place to document my ramblings. I might get some more insightful responses on the framebuilding forum, but that forum is a little less lively.
Is this a statement, or a question? As I have hands, I have never ridden without them. But can we get back to the pancakes now?
I just want to discuss frame geometry for no reason other than good discussion. My Road Bike has Low Self Esteem. Is this a function of its being floppy? I can detect no appreciable handling difference between these builds, despite their different "flops".
The real question is, why do I care?
Discuss.
__________________
Cat 2 Track, Cat 3 Road.
"If you’re new enough [to racing] that you would ask such question, then i would hazard a guess that if you just made up a workout that sounded hard to do, and did it, you’d probably get faster." --the tiniest sprinter
Cat 2 Track, Cat 3 Road.
"If you’re new enough [to racing] that you would ask such question, then i would hazard a guess that if you just made up a workout that sounded hard to do, and did it, you’d probably get faster." --the tiniest sprinter
11-13-15, 12:30 AM
#2
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Something good did come from the mess of the other thread. This paper is fascinating.
Here's part of the introduction:
The topic of bike handling is much more complicated than simple trail and flop.
Here's part of the introduction:
... One result of these complications is that the voluminous research modeling the bicycle over the last hundred years has resulted in no useful design guidelines for the construction of bicycles with desired handling qualities. Even the simplest models of a bicycle with a rigidly attached rider have yet to be completely understood. Deeper questions regarding the fundamental control methods and objectives of a human rider also remain unanswered and are the key to understanding handling.
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Cat 2 Track, Cat 3 Road.
"If you’re new enough [to racing] that you would ask such question, then i would hazard a guess that if you just made up a workout that sounded hard to do, and did it, you’d probably get faster." --the tiniest sprinter
Cat 2 Track, Cat 3 Road.
"If you’re new enough [to racing] that you would ask such question, then i would hazard a guess that if you just made up a workout that sounded hard to do, and did it, you’d probably get faster." --the tiniest sprinter
Last edited by Brian Ratliff; 11-13-15 at 12:35 AM.
11-13-15, 12:55 AM
#3
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Originally Posted by Brian Ratliff
Something good did come from the mess of the other thread.
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11-13-15, 01:16 AM
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Originally Posted by 3alarmer
One argument of this kind, called “poisoning the well,” is particularly perverse. The incident that gave rise to the name illustrates the argument forcefully. The British novelist and clergyman Charles Kingsley, attacking the famous Catholic intellectual John Henry Cardinal Newman, argued thus: Cardinal Newman’s claims were not be trusted because, as a Roman Catholic Priest, (Kingsley alleged) Newman’s first loyalty was not to the truth. Newman countered that this ad hominem attack made it impossible for him and indeed for all Catholics to advance their arguments, since anything that they might say to defend themselves would then be undermined by others’ alleging that, after all, truth was not their first concern. Kingsley, said Cardinal Newman, had poisoned the well of discourse.
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Cat 2 Track, Cat 3 Road.
"If you’re new enough [to racing] that you would ask such question, then i would hazard a guess that if you just made up a workout that sounded hard to do, and did it, you’d probably get faster." --the tiniest sprinter
Cat 2 Track, Cat 3 Road.
"If you’re new enough [to racing] that you would ask such question, then i would hazard a guess that if you just made up a workout that sounded hard to do, and did it, you’d probably get faster." --the tiniest sprinter
Last edited by Brian Ratliff; 11-13-15 at 01:22 AM.
11-13-15, 04:57 AM
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What's this thread about?
11-13-15, 05:08 AM
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I like pizza
Last edited by BoSoxYacht; 11-13-15 at 05:11 AM. Reason: To tell Brian that I like pizza
11-13-15, 05:09 AM
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Originally Posted by Brian Ratliff
Something good did come from the mess of the other thresd
The topic of bike handling is much more complicated than simple trail and flop.
The topic of bike handling is much more complicated than simple trail and flop.
Originally Posted by redfooj
1mm of trail in cromo is like 1.5mm of trail in CF. +/- 0.2mm depending on carbon layup.
cromo forks: transversely stiff, yet longitudinally compliant.
cromo forks: transversely stiff, yet longitudinally compliant.
Last edited by BoSoxYacht; 11-13-15 at 05:13 AM.
11-13-15, 05:46 AM
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Originally Posted by BoSoxYacht
so Brian, does fork material affect flop?
11-13-15, 05:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Brian Ratliff
Something good did come from the mess of the other thread. This paper is fascinating.
Here's part of the introduction:
The topic of bike handling is much more complicated than simple trail and flop.
Here's part of the introduction:
The topic of bike handling is much more complicated than simple trail and flop.
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Robert
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Originally Posted by LAJ
No matter where I go, here I am...
11-13-15, 06:00 AM
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Chocolate chip is a more modern approach than blueberry, but still works well with maple syrup. Thank you Canada!
I would suggest banana nut, were it not for my pecan and walnut allergy.
I would suggest banana nut, were it not for my pecan and walnut allergy.
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Robert
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Originally Posted by LAJ
No matter where I go, here I am...
11-13-15, 06:08 AM
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Originally Posted by rpenmanparker
Chocolate chip is a more modern approach than blueberry, but still works well with maple syrup. Thank you Canada!
I would suggest banana nut, were it not for my pecan and walnut allergy.
I would suggest banana nut, were it not for my pecan and walnut allergy.
11-13-15, 06:16 AM
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Originally Posted by BoSoxYacht
I like pizza
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11-13-15, 06:17 AM
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Originally Posted by rpenmanparker
Chocolate chip is a more modern approach than blueberry, but still works well with maple syrup. Thank you Canada!
I would suggest banana nut, were it not for my pecan and walnut allergy.
I would suggest banana nut, were it not for my pecan and walnut allergy.
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Keep the chain tight!
11-13-15, 06:20 AM
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Pancakes with fresh Montana huckleberries cannot be beat. Real men don't eat banana pancakes. Search "Bill Burr--Why Men Aren't Sensitive" on YouTube for an explanation as to why.
11-13-15, 06:22 AM
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Originally Posted by indyfabz
Pancakes with fresh Montana huckleberries cannot be beat. Real men don't eat banana pancakes. Search "Bill Burr--Why Men Aren't Sensitive" on YouTube for an explanation as to why.
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11-13-15, 07:00 AM
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Originally Posted by Trsnrtr
Never had huckleberries but I am traveling through Montana this summer and I do like to eat in cafes, so I'll try to keep this in mind. :
11-13-15, 07:12 AM
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Don't drink and post.
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You could fall off a cliff and die.
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You could get lost and die.
You could hit a tree and die.
OR YOU COULD STAY HOME AND FALL OFF THE COUCH AND DIE.
11-13-15, 08:00 AM
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Disc brakes and tubeless are all that matters anyway.
11-13-15, 08:34 AM
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Originally Posted by BoSoxYacht
What's this thread about?
11-13-15, 08:43 AM
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Originally Posted by Jadesfire
The Deep South alternative to pancakes.
What you have pictured is an Italian dessert.
Try this.
11-13-15, 08:44 AM
#24
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Originally Posted by BoSoxYacht
so Brian, does fork material affect flop?
__________________
Cat 2 Track, Cat 3 Road.
"If you’re new enough [to racing] that you would ask such question, then i would hazard a guess that if you just made up a workout that sounded hard to do, and did it, you’d probably get faster." --the tiniest sprinter
Cat 2 Track, Cat 3 Road.
"If you’re new enough [to racing] that you would ask such question, then i would hazard a guess that if you just made up a workout that sounded hard to do, and did it, you’d probably get faster." --the tiniest sprinter
11-13-15, 08:54 AM
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Personally, I like my pancakes to flop a lot when I place them on the plate. That indicates:
a) they are moist and not dried out,
b) my spatula is laterally stiff and vertically compliant,
c) my plate is heat-treated carbon fiber,
d) all of the above.
a) they are moist and not dried out,
b) my spatula is laterally stiff and vertically compliant,
c) my plate is heat-treated carbon fiber,
d) all of the above.
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