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Do you really use your 11 cog to go faster?

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Road Cycling “It is by riding a bicycle that you learn the contours of a country best, since you have to sweat up the hills and coast down them. Thus you remember them as they actually are, while in a motor car only a high hill impresses you, and you have no such accurate remembrance of country you have driven through as you gain by riding a bicycle.” -- Ernest Hemingway

Do you really use your 11 cog to go faster?

Old 12-01-15, 02:04 PM
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Originally Posted by TheRef
Best first post EVER!
So it's all downhill from here; hope he has an 11...
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Old 12-01-15, 02:10 PM
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Going 50mph+ no matter how much you pedal you are not going to go any faster. Reducing drag is the only thing you can do.
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Old 12-01-15, 03:10 PM
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Originally Posted by kbarch
What does being pulled along at 17 mph on a flat (or riding solo at 14 or less) - have to do with mashing? When the watts are low enough, even 40 rpms is easy going. Plenty of folks often find themselves coasting when the pace is relaxed. Having to coast because ones sporty, high cadence acceleration would close a gap too fast, well, that may not be bizarre, but it is annoying.
And what do either of those speeds have to do with an 11-tooth cog even on the small ring. That's not relaxed, it's catatonic.
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Old 12-01-15, 05:29 PM
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Originally Posted by rpenmanparker
And what do either of those speeds have to do with an 11-tooth cog even on the small ring. That's not relaxed, it's catatonic.
Describes my wife pretty well...
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Old 12-01-15, 07:42 PM
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Originally Posted by redlude97
i don't understand where you are getting these ideas from. High cadence lets you modulate your speed more finely, a 5rpm difference at 90rpm is way less than 5rpm@60rpm. Its easier to hold a steady line at a high cadence. Usually the people yoyoing all over the place have poor ability to modulate cadence.
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Old 12-01-15, 07:54 PM
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Maybe you people that "spin out" with 53x11 should try a cog like this.

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Old 12-01-15, 09:54 PM
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Originally Posted by redlude97
I don't understand where you are getting these ideas from. High cadence lets you modulate your speed more finely, a 5rpm difference at 90rpm is way less than 5rpm@60rpm. Its easier to hold a steady line at a high cadence. Usually the people yoyoing all over the place have poor ability to modulate cadence.
Like most folks, I get "these ideas" from experience and observation. Of course someone who is practiced can modulate their speed finely from any cadence. It's been my observation that the steadiest wheels around often do maintain a high cadence, but spinners don't have a monopoly on that distinction, and some of the worst yo-yo-ers spin as fast as anyone - that is, when they aren't coasting.

I'm not sure what your example indicates either way, really. The 5 rpm cadence change is 5.5% for the guy starting at 90, 8.33% for the guy starting at 60 - of course it's going to make a bigger difference for the latter. It's also going to be far more noticeable in terms of effort - which gets to my point that, from any given speed, it's easier to accelerate more quickly with a higher starting cadence. Up to a point, the lower the cadence, the more sluggish acceleration tends to be. Anyone who has tried to take off again after slowing down to 5 mph or so while still on 53/11 knows this.

Originally Posted by rpenmanparker
And what do either of those speeds have to do with an 11-tooth cog even on the small ring. That's not relaxed, it's catatonic.
Which is catatonic? The 17mph, or the cadence one would be rolling with 53/11 at that speed? If the latter, I'd agree, but that's not what I was talking about. But if you're saying 17mph is catatonic, well, then more than half the folks out there every weekend on four- and five-figure road bikes are catatonic most of the time, regardless of what one might read here. And a lot of them find an 11t cog useful for "going fast" from time to time. It may seem silly to some, but they really do use it, and happily.

Oh, and by the way: as easy going, chatty and apparently "relaxed" as they may appear to be, toodling along at 35 mph or whatever, the pros in a race peloton (and those of you who ride like them) are hardly relaxed, they are WORKING. Some of it may be un-challenging, but if they were actually relaxed so much of time, those 140 lb guys wouldn't need to consume 8,000 calories a day.
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Old 12-01-15, 10:06 PM
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Originally Posted by kbarch
Like most folks, I get "these ideas" from experience and observation. Of course someone who is practiced can modulate their speed finely from any cadence. It's been my observation that the steadiest wheels around often do maintain a high cadence, but spinners don't have a monopoly on that distinction, and some of the worst yo-yo-ers spin as fast as anyone - that is, when they aren't coasting.

I'm not sure what your example indicates either way, really. The 5 rpm cadence change is 5.5% for the guy starting at 90, 8.33% for the guy starting at 60 - of course it's going to make a bigger difference for the latter. It's also going to be far more noticeable in terms of effort - which gets to my point that, from any given speed, it's easier to accelerate more quickly with a higher starting cadence. Up to a point, the lower the cadence, the more sluggish acceleration tends to be. Anyone who has tried to take off again after slowing down to 5 mph or so while still on 53/11 knows this.


Which is catatonic? The 17mph, or the cadence one would be rolling with 53/11 at that speed? If the latter, I'd agree, but that's not what I was talking about. But if you're saying 17mph is catatonic, well, then more than half the folks out there every weekend on four- and five-figure road bikes are catatonic most of the time, regardless of what one might read here. And a lot of them find an 11t cog useful for "going fast" from time to time. It may seem silly to some, but they really do use it, and happily.

Oh, and by the way: as easy going, chatty and apparently "relaxed" as they may appear to be, toodling along at 35 mph or whatever, the pros in a race peloton (and those of you who ride like them) are hardly relaxed, they are WORKING. Some of it may be un-challenging, but if they were actually relaxed so much of time, those 140 lb guys wouldn't need to consume 8,000 calories a day.
The cadence on a 53/11 at 17 mph would be very slow.
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Old 12-02-15, 04:10 AM
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Originally Posted by rpenmanparker
The cadence on a 53/11 at 17 mph would be very slow.
Like an old single - 45rpm!
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Old 12-02-15, 06:17 AM
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I reckon this says something about how I get along with my 11:

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Old 12-02-15, 08:24 AM
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I glanced at the comp. on one downhill last ride 53-11 65kph 110 cadence. Seeing as I often reach 80+kph would never give away the 11t.
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Old 12-02-15, 09:42 AM
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Originally Posted by noodle soup
Some people make riding sound much harder than it is
Originally Posted by TheRef
Best first post EVER!

+1 on both.

The hand-wringing that goes on at BF over gearing/cadence never ceases to amaze me.

I will say that I saw a bunch of Pathletes over the weekend riding along on the MUP on aerobars spinning at about 50 rpm with their knees knocking way out to the sides on each upstroke. They seemed to enjoy their 11t so good on them.
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Old 12-02-15, 09:54 AM
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Originally Posted by Dan333SP
I will say that I saw a bunch of Pathletes over the weekend riding along on the MUP on aerobars spinning at about 50 rpm with their knees knocking way out to the sides on each upstroke. They seemed to enjoy their 11t so good on them.
Pathletes, I love it.

There is one guy i see occasionally riding a hybrid with aerobars an easy 10" above his saddle height. When he's riding, his arms extend straight out from his shoulders like Superman(but nothing like Graham Obree).
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Old 12-02-15, 11:01 AM
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Originally Posted by chaadster
I reckon this says something about how I get along with my 11:
What..?
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Old 12-02-15, 11:03 AM
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Originally Posted by rmfnla
What..?
I think he's saying he never uses it. Look at how clean it is.
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Old 12-02-15, 11:04 AM
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Originally Posted by rmfnla
What..?
His 11t is much less greasy than the others, as in it sees very little use.

Reminded me of "The Rider", which references Lucien Van Impe's 22t (probably the largest cog in his cluster) being "clean as a whistle" after a mountain stage.
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Old 12-02-15, 11:04 AM
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Originally Posted by jbchybridrider
I glanced at the comp. on one downhill last ride 53-11 65kph 110 cadence. Seeing as I often reach 80+kph would never give away the 11t.
No, I guess not. But wouldn't full aero tuck coasting on that kind of downhill make more sense?
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Old 12-02-15, 11:05 AM
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Originally Posted by BoSoxYacht
I think he's saying he never uses it. Look at how clean it is.
Honestly, it looks pretty much the same as the rest of the cluster, but okay...
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Old 12-02-15, 11:06 AM
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I run a 50 on the front and do use the 11 on the back on nearly every ride. I have big hills here to go up and down. Sure, a 52 would give me more gear for down hill but I make good use of the 34 on the front (Campy).
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Old 12-02-15, 11:20 AM
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Originally Posted by rmfnla
Honestly, it looks pretty much the same as the rest of the cluster, but okay...
True, it really doesn't look all that different on 2nd glance. Makes me want to give that whole cassette a bath...
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Old 12-02-15, 11:28 AM
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Originally Posted by Dan333SP
True, it really doesn't look all that different on 2nd glance. Makes me want to give that whole cassette a bath...
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Old 12-02-15, 11:38 AM
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Originally Posted by rpenmanparker
wouldn't full aero tuck coasting on that kind of downhill make more sense?
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Old 12-02-15, 11:39 AM
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Originally Posted by rpenmanparker
No, I guess not. But wouldn't full aero tuck coasting on that kind of downhill make more sense?
What's this 'sense' you talk about?
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Old 12-02-15, 11:41 AM
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Originally Posted by kbarch
... which gets to my point that, from any given speed, it's easier to accelerate more quickly with a higher starting cadence. Up to a point, the lower the cadence, the more sluggish acceleration tends to be. ....
That would mean keeping within a range of speed would be easier at low cadence than while spinning; was that your point? That makes perfect sense to me. I have to question however why staying a specific speed is desirable even in a group of people. Then again I ride 99% solo.

But if you're saying 17mph is catatonic, well, then more than half the folks out there every weekend on four- and five-figure road bikes are catatonic most of the time, regardless of what one might read here. And a lot of them find an 11t cog useful for "going fast" from time to time. It may seem silly to some, but they really do use it, and happily
Good point, and I abandon the 53-11 combination purely because I almost never used it. If someone else likes the feeling of pushing that down hill, or low cadence effort, more power to them.
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Old 12-02-15, 11:43 AM
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Originally Posted by rmfnla
Honestly, it looks pretty much the same as the rest of the cluster, but okay...
Exactly my take upon looking at it, too; it gets used.

I honestly don't know which gears I use mostly, when, or what for, so that's why I went down to look at my wheel, and yeah, it looks like I get on it often enough, probably because the rolling terrain out here rewards carrying momentum, and if I have the opportunity to make speed downhill to save me some effort on the next uphill, I do. At 220lbs, it's not hard for me to gather the speed to be able to crank over the 53/11 for a bit down a gradual 6-7% slope before madly dumping gears to hump it up the other side.
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