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How reliable are dengfu/hongfu frames?

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How reliable are dengfu/hongfu frames?

Old 12-02-15, 12:47 PM
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chil2makefun
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How reliable are dengfu/hongfu frames?

So I'm looking into getting an unpainted carbon frame to do a custom paintjob on.
Obviously I'm thinking of getting a frame from asia but I've also heard quite a few horror stories.
So my question is, are these frames reliable as long as I stick to sellers like dengfu or hongfu?
If you guys would have any sugestions as to where I could get a frame from, I'm all ears.
Preferably it'd be an aero frame with a fairly big downtube, which is needed for the custom paintjob.

Thanks
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Old 12-02-15, 12:55 PM
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N=1 sample size ahead

I've seen a fm066 in person, and it's seemingly held up as well as any other bike on our recurring rides over not smooth terrain. It's been over a year in service and i don't think it's behaved much differently than any of the other $BRANDS.
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Old 12-02-15, 12:58 PM
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Old 12-02-15, 01:04 PM
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They are fine to paint, okay to ride ... but I wouldn't loan them any money.

Some folks on the forum have bought and built Chinese carbon frames (all from companies such as you mention) and have had nothing but good things to say. Look for threads by Rpenmanparker and rm13.

Most of the horror stories seem to come from articles in bike magazines sponsored by major bike companies in direct competition with Workswell and Dengfu, etc. and also seem to focus on the really cheap rip-off knock-offs.

What are called "open-mold" frames from reasonably reputable companies such as you mentioned seem to be working just fine for everyone who owns one. I will look for some of their threads in a little while, or you could search here for those posters and/or "Chinese carbon."

I have been considering one myself for my next bike, and so long as I deal with one of the big firms I am not worried about getting robbed or buying a bike which breaks into shards the first time I hit a bump. As many have said, these frames are quite possibly made in the same factories which make some of the best-known high-dollar frames. Also, Nashbar, Ribble, and Performance Bike all offer similar frames (for about $100 more) which almost certainly come from similar sources ... big Chinese factories cranking out bike components for all the major brands. never heard a complaint about any of those frames.

Likely the "open-mold" stuff is a generation behind the best you could buy from the big names ... for about a fifth or less) of the price. Quality is probably comparable with what Trek and Giant sold a couple years ago. Customer service and such is a crap-shoot.

https://www.bikeforums.net/road-cycli...ike-build.html
https://www.bikeforums.net/road-cycli...n-t-edsel.html
https://www.bikeforums.net/road-cycli...rbon-club.html
https://www.bikeforums.net/road-cycli...ght-build.html
https://www.bikeforums.net/road-cycli...bon-build.html

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Old 12-02-15, 01:33 PM
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I heard on the interweb that most of them completely asplode in the shipping boxes before they even get to your door.
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Old 12-02-15, 01:42 PM
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Originally Posted by BoSoxYacht View Post
Did you pop enough to share?
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Old 12-02-15, 02:25 PM
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They're fine... truly... most if not all chinese frames are just fine... No need to worry whatsoever....

https://youtu.be/jUnmCfZlZoE https://youtu.be/jH7MEaFR7eQ https://youtu.be/txlw821OSoc https://youtu.be/6WFF2YD0JPc

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Old 12-02-15, 02:45 PM
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I don't think anyone really knows. What I have seen are a few stories from people that have bought them and are happy with them. I have not seen this so-called 'horror stories' to know whether they are veritable (the article about counterfeits does not count) so overall what I have seen is pretty much 100% positive, but there are not enough data points for me to draw any conclusion. Personally I would not buy one, but that is because I do not care for carbon that much and I would rather get a proven aluminum frame, which can easily be had for less than $1000.
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Old 12-02-15, 02:57 PM
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Originally Posted by BoSoxYacht View Post
Originally Posted by indyfabz View Post
Did you pop enough to share?
Should we start a poll on how many pages this one will go..?
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Old 12-02-15, 03:26 PM
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I guess the right answer to the OP's actual question is "Yes, they are absolutely fine as canvasses ... you can paint as much as you like without danger."
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Old 12-02-15, 05:57 PM
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Originally Posted by PepeM View Post
I don't think anyone really knows. What I have seen are a few stories from people that have bought them and are happy with them. I have not seen this so-called 'horror stories' to know whether they are veritable (the article about counterfeits does not count) so overall what I have seen is pretty much 100% positive, but there are not enough data points for me to draw any conclusion. Personally I would not buy one, but that is because I do not care for carbon that much and I would rather get a proven aluminum frame, which can easily be had for less than $1000.
your preference for aluminum is understood, but it's easy to get carbon fiber frames that are proven, and sold by legit US based companies.
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Old 12-02-15, 06:38 PM
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Mine is fine. Workswell 066
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Old 12-02-15, 07:17 PM
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Originally Posted by BoSoxYacht View Post
your preference for aluminum is understood, but it's easy to get carbon fiber frames that are proven, and sold by legit US based companies.
Yes, I know. I think I was not very clear though. I am not willing to put $4000 on a carbon frame, I rather spend under a $1000. For those $1000, I rather get an aluminum frame from a proven company than a carbon frame from one I do not know much about (they might be reputable to other people or in other countries, I do not know.)

Unless I misunderstood and you are saying that I can get a carbon frame from a US company under $1000, in which case a link would be appreciated.
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Old 12-02-15, 07:24 PM
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Originally Posted by PepeM View Post
Yes, I know. I think I was not very clear though. I am not willing to put $4000 on a carbon frame, I rather spend under a $1000. For those $1000, I rather get an aluminum frame from a proven company than a carbon frame from one I do not know much about (they might be reputable to other people or in other countries, I do not know.)

Unless I misunderstood and you are saying that I can get a carbon frame from a US company under $1000, in which case a link would be appreciated.
What does proven mean? 20 years of failure free product? Good luck. All I can tell you is that Workswell, Hongfu and Dengfu are all extremely well reviewed. Quality is good and they stand behind their products. Workswell is the cheapest without any apparent drawbacks.
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Old 12-02-15, 07:36 PM
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Originally Posted by PepeM View Post
Yes, I know. I think I was not very clear though. I am not willing to put $4000 on a carbon frame, I rather spend under a $1000. For those $1000, I rather get an aluminum frame from a proven company than a carbon frame from one I do not know much about (they might be reputable to other people or in other countries, I do not know.)

Unless I misunderstood and you are saying that I can get a carbon frame from a US company under $1000, in which case a link would be appreciated.
Nashbar Carbon Road Frame and Fork

Pedal Force super-light carbon bicycle
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Old 12-02-15, 08:02 PM
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Mr. rpenmanparker---your Workswell 066 (I thought they stopped selling it, until i found page two of their road bike section--okay, so I am a little slow off the bike too) has the same geometry as a Giant TCR I think you once said?
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Old 12-02-15, 08:04 PM
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Originally Posted by PepeM View Post
Unless I misunderstood and you are saying that I can get a carbon frame from a US company under $1000, in which case a link would be appreciated.
Thank you rms13.

Pedal Force is the company that I had in mind, but Performance/Nashbar also sell them. Last week Performane offered this complete bike for $999

Scattante CFR Elite 105 Road Bike - 2016 Performance Exclusive
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Old 12-02-15, 08:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Maelochs View Post
Mr. rpenmanparker---your Workswell 066 (I thought they stopped selling it, until i found page two of their road bike section--okay, so I am a little slow off the bike too) has the same geometry as a Giant TCR I think you once said?
Same exact geometry as Cervelo R5. Very close to Giant TCR Advanced.
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Old 12-02-15, 08:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Maelochs View Post
I guess the right answer to the OP's actual question is "Yes, they are absolutely fine as canvasses ... you can paint as much as you like without danger."
depends on the paint formulation and how many coats
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Old 12-02-15, 08:35 PM
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Originally Posted by rpenmanparker View Post
What does proven mean? 20 years of failure free product? Good luck. All I can tell you is that Workswell, Hongfu and Dengfu are all extremely well reviewed. Quality is good and they stand behind their products. Workswell is the cheapest without any apparent drawbacks.
I admit 'proven' doesn't really mean much. As for those three, I would have to take your word (and that one of a few other forum posters) for it. I definitely do not think you are lying, it is just that the little I know from those companies is not enough to convince me to buy from them. I would never tell anyone not to though, honestly I don't know enough to have an opinion either way. You have first hand experience so your feedback is certainly valuable to a potential customer.

Originally Posted by BoSoxYacht View Post
Thank you rms13.

Pedal Force is the company that I had in mind, but Performance/Nashbar also sell them. Last week Performane offered this complete bike for $999

Scattante CFR Elite 105 Road Bike - 2016 Performance Exclusive
I figured Performance and/or Nashbar would show up, although I have never heard of Pedal Force before. While I do consider Performance and Nashbar quite reputable and trustworthy companies, they are not really bike designers/manufacturers, they just sell stuff. I do not know who designed those frames or with what purpose in mind or where they are manufactured and to which standards which is just something I do not like. Now, I am not saying they are bad frames, I honestly do not know what level of quality they are built up to or with what purpose (although I am sure they won't break just by staring at them or anything like that.)

Some would claim that I have just 'drank the Kool-Aid' and maybe they are not wrong, but I do prefer purchasing items from companies with a visible presence. Doesn't have to be a major brand necessarily, but I really do not like rebranded stuff. Now, that does not mean that I would try to sway someone away from a Chinese no-name frame or one of the Nashbar ones, just that I rather purchase elsewhere.
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Old 12-02-15, 09:14 PM
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Originally Posted by PepeM View Post
I admit 'proven' doesn't really mean much. As for those three, I would have to take your word (and that one of a few other forum posters) for it. I definitely do not think you are lying, it is just that the little I know from those companies is not enough to convince me to buy from them. I would never tell anyone not to though, honestly I don't know enough to have an opinion either way. You have first hand experience so your feedback is certainly valuable to a potential customer.





I figured Performance and/or Nashbar would show up, although I have never heard of Pedal Force before. While I do consider Performance and Nashbar quite reputable and trustworthy companies, they are not really bike designers/manufacturers, they just sell stuff. I do not know who designed those frames or with what purpose in mind or where they are manufactured and to which standards which is just something I do not like. Now, I am not saying they are bad frames, I honestly do not know what level of quality they are built up to or with what purpose (although I am sure they won't break just by staring at them or anything like that.)

Some would claim that I have just 'drank the Kool-Aid' and maybe they are not wrong, but I do prefer purchasing items from companies with a visible presence. Doesn't have to be a major brand necessarily, but I really do not like rebranded stuff. Now, that does not mean that I would try to sway someone away from a Chinese no-name frame or one of the Nashbar ones, just that I rather purchase elsewhere.
Man's gotta do what a man's gotta do. Exactly what is the point of this thread though, if you won't take yes for an answer?

There are only two choices: expensive, name-brand frames and cheap frames from lesser known and unproven Chinese producers. There are only two kinds of risk here with the unproven suppliers: financial risk and safety risk. The financial risk is vanishingly small relative to the price of a name-brand frame. There is no positive evidence of a safety risk. If you don't know how to deal with negative evidence, i.e. no amount of negative evidence is enough to convince you nothing is wrong, then we can't help you here. Just fork over the big bucks. But remember, all those companies you think are more reliable have reams of frame failures.
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Old 12-02-15, 09:19 PM
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Well, I did not start it.

There is a reason I do not ask the 41 for advice when I purchase stuff. I do read what people have said and take some of it into consideration though.
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Old 12-02-15, 09:23 PM
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Originally Posted by chil2makefun View Post
So I'm looking into getting an unpainted carbon frame to do a custom paintjob on.
Obviously I'm thinking of getting a frame from asia but I've also heard quite a few horror stories.
So my question is, are these frames reliable as long as I stick to sellers like dengfu or hongfu?
If you guys would have any suggestions as to where I could get a frame from, I'm all ears.
Preferably it'd be an aero frame with a fairly big downtube, which is needed for the custom paintjob.

Thanks
The problem is this question has no meaning. Generic carbon frames are just that, generic. The frame sold to Joe Blow over ebay yesterday may or may not be the same frame as the one sold to Tiny Tim tomorrow through the "manufacturer's" website, even if it's the same year/name/model. You simply don't know. The name brands mean absolutely nothing. They are just names; many of them are owned by the same companies and these companies take steps to hid their ownership.

What you do know is these frames are made by the same factories that most other "name brand" American and European frames are made from, that nobody is purposefully out to make a bad frame, they are most probably made by the same technicians as the name brands with the same training and the same materials, and that none of the frames sold like this are likely to be quality controlled. If something does goes wrong, they'll probably save face (look it up, this phrase "save face" has a very specific meaning to the Chinese and it's not about customer service) by sending you a new frame. Probably. I wouldn't say they are unequivocally bad, but neither would I tell you they are safe as houses. Buyer beware is the best advice you'll get for generic product out of China.
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Old 12-02-15, 09:32 PM
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Originally Posted by PepeM View Post
I admit 'proven' doesn't really mean much. As for those three, I would have to take your word (and that one of a few other forum posters) for it. I definitely do not think you are lying, it is just that the little I know from those companies is not enough to convince me to buy from them. I would never tell anyone not to though, honestly I don't know enough to have an opinion either way. You have first hand experience so your feedback is certainly valuable to a potential customer.





I figured Performance and/or Nashbar would show up, although I have never heard of Pedal Force before. While I do consider Performance and Nashbar quite reputable and trustworthy companies, they are not really bike designers/manufacturers, they just sell stuff. I do not know who designed those frames or with what purpose in mind or where they are manufactured and to which standards which is just something I do not like. Now, I am not saying they are bad frames, I honestly do not know what level of quality they are built up to or with what purpose (although I am sure they won't break just by staring at them or anything like that.)

Some would claim that I have just 'drank the Kool-Aid' and maybe they are not wrong, but I do prefer purchasing items from companies with a visible presence. Doesn't have to be a major brand necessarily, but I really do not like rebranded stuff. Now, that does not mean that I would try to sway someone away from a Chinese no-name frame or one of the Nashbar ones, just that I rather purchase elsewhere.
If you search "Pedal Force Bikeforums" on google, pages of threads on Pedal Force will show up.
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Old 12-02-15, 09:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Brian Ratliff View Post
The problem is this question has no meaning. Generic carbon frames are just that, generic. The frame sold to Joe Blow over ebay yesterday may or may not be the same frame as the one sold to Tiny Tim tomorrow through the "manufacturer's" website, even if it's the same year/name/model. You simply don't know. The name brands mean absolutely nothing. They are just names; many of them are owned by the same companies and these companies take steps to hid their ownership.

What you do know is these frames are made by the same factories that most other "name brand" frames are made from, that nobody is purposefully out to make a bad frame, they are most probably made by the same technicians as the name brands with the same training and the same materials, and that none of the frames sold like this are likely to be quality controlled. If something does goes wrong, they'll probably save face (look it up, this phrase "save face" has a very specific meaning to the Chinese and it's not about customer service) by sending you a new frame. Probably. I wouldn't say they are unequivocally bad, but neither would I tell you they are safe as houses. Buyer beware is the best advice you'll get for of generic product out of China.
I agree with everything you said except the comment about no quality control. It is almost a certainty that the frames are both quality controlled and quality assured. There is no reason, whatsoever, to think otherwise, especially in light of your comment about the frames being made by the same technicians with the same training as the name brands. Those technicians and training are exactly where the quality management system resides.
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