Advice regarding group rides
 

I usually ride alone, but yesterday, I took up the local weekend group ride (planning to do this every week) and it proved a bit difficult at some points. I didn't get dropped or anything, thank god. But the guys that race competitively finished ahead of us by around a minute or so. (86km ride)

We stayed as one group for 60km or so, then the strongest riders attacked on a climb. This is where we split up into 2 groups. I couldn't keep up with the light/small riders on a hill, weighing 75kg at 181cm vs 60/65kg skinny guys. Excuses excuses, eh?

We did catch them though, we stayed together for a while, attacking for a few meters and letting off. This frequent attacking put me on the red. We hit another hill and same thing happened, couldn't keep up with them and we split up again and that was it. We see them up ahead, but just not fast enough to catch them.

Do I need to work on intervals to keep up with these guys? my lower back was killing me the last 20km as well, probably from the frequent attacks/higher speed that I'm used to. At least that's what I think it was.

What do you guys think I should work on more? I'm not looking to loose any more weight to be frank. Any advice, tips, hints is appreciated.

Cheers!

Howdy! So, you got a road bike since joining in April. Congrats! What bike did you get?

Just keep showing up, you'll get better at it fairly quickly.

Ride hills more, lose weight, hit the squat rack. Group rides tend to break up into two groups; those that want to hammer and those that want to keep a steady pace. On long climbs it is usually every man for himself, and regroup at the top.

+1. It mostly comes down to your power/weight ratio. If you don't want to lose weight you need to gain power. Do some hill repeats on the hills you attacked on the group ride, 20min intervals to improve your threshold power and you'll be fine.

Hey!

Since I joined, I got this one: http://i.imgur.com/nUhqoLe.jpg - Did around 2,500 KM on it and traded it for this: http://i.imgur.com/rhwLNZ5.jpg - It's aluminum, around 10kg.

I'll keep hitting those group rides, shall report back if I ever move into the first group. :)

Just wanted to hear some training suggestions to help me out.

Sounds like your fit may be a bit off.

You're supposed to suffer on your first fast group ride, right?

If it was no problem, then a faster group would be needed soon.

The rides are your interval sessions.

A stretching/ flexibility program would help w/ the back issues,

& also to get lower on the bike.

Do you have back pain while riding alone?

I have nothing of value to add to this thread but want to say that I really, really enjoyed reading this.

Felt like I was right there, struggling to hold a wheel, trying to bridge...

Finishing with the lead group or not, the whole thing sounds like a great day to me.

Lower back pain
I get lower back pain on steep climbs when I'm pressing hard on the pedals at a low cadence.

It sounds like you are a fairly new rider. Maybe work on increasing your cadence. On fast (for me) group rides, my cadence is up near 100 rpm. On easy rides, it's often in the high 80s. Try spinning one gear easier than you are used to.

Hanging in on group rides
I need every small advantage I can find to hang on:

Drafting and aero:
Riding in the drops--my bike fit lets me use the drops comfortably, not just on the sprints.
I turn my head until I can feel the direction of the wind is straight in my face, and the same wind noise in each ear. Then I try to offset to have the rider in front at that angle so I'm completely in the rider's draft.
And I even try to find taller riders to draft.
I'll make a very hard effort to close a gap quickly, then (try to) recover in the draft.
Take very short pulls if the group is doing a rotation.


Good tires, like Continental GP4000, have supple sidewalls and lower rolling resistance. At your 75kg/165 pounds, try 95 front, 110 rear on 23c, and 90 front, 105 rear on 25c. (For fast rides on rough roads, I sometimes bump up the pressure 5 psi to help avoid pinch flats on potholes.)


Yes!

I would like to add that the next couple of times you are out there with the same group, pay close attention to how things play out. These rides usually play out in very similar ways and improving your tactics will help you do better. We all have a limited amount of efforts we can make, so make sure you are using yours when they count and not wasting them on situations that'll get you nowhere.

For example (I'm just basing this on what you said, you'll have to figure out what works best) you say the group split in two on the first climb but then got back together. Maybe you don't want to try too hard on that first climb if the pack will reunite after it, conserving energy during that climb might be more beneficial. Same with those constant 'attacks' you mention. Try to not go too hard on those, make sure you're always holding on to someone's wheel and not fighting the wind. Then when you reach the decisive hill you will be fresher. Try to move up the pack and into a good position before the hill and find a wheel you think you can keep up with, and don't let it go. Again, this is just an example based on what you said, but when it comes to fast group rides (just as races) riding smart is every bit as important as your fitness.

How important is it to you to compare yourself to others? Do you compete in other areas as well? I really don't understand the need to "keep up". It didn't sound like you had anymore fun riding a group ride compared to riding alone. I like riding with others but why make it a competition?

Because it is a lot of fun.

Practice yelling at people.

:roflmao2:


Get really good at always actively scanning your closure on those in front of you in the line using peripheral vision always anticipating changes in speed, etc.. You're primary focus should always be on the road ahead. Get good at moderating your speed via drag, meaning opening/closing your cross section to the wind via tucking or sitting up higher...skew adjacent to the outside of the slipstream as necessary to subtly decelerate, soft pedaling, a very slight bit, literally an imperceptible smidgen, of braking is okay as well.

Your back was killing you because your fit isn't right, assuming your conditioning is pretty good and no medical conditions.

Get used to the lighter guys outclimbing you, find what you're good at and make up for it there.

Spin, higher RPM is your friend.

Assuming the OP is a man, the answer is probably yes.

Because that's what makes you a stronger and better rider

Since you sound like a fairly new rider, at least to group rides, your back pain could be due to your level off fitness. If so, work on strengthening your core and back muscles, and work on your flexibility. It could also be a fit issue if your not set up correctly.

Keep doing the group rides and focus on the dynamics of the group. Shelter yourself to conserve energy so you can do some hard efforts during the ride, or finish strong. Pace line skills take some time to develop, but your fellow riders will appreciate someone who can contribute to the group. Also, don't just do group rides. Solo rides allow you to do your own thing, which might include hard intervals or just a light spin.

Loving the replies guys, honestly didn't expect I'd get so many. :D

@woodcraft
No, I don't get back pain when I'm alone. That's why I suspected the high speed/attacks to be the culprit rather than bike fit. I don't go that fast, nor do intervals.

@TimothyH
It really was a great day, I've rode with these guys before, but I was just getting started and usually get dropped. lol Actually finishing with the lead group in sight was quite awesome for me.

@rm -rf
Thank you for the advice, I'll try to work on pedaling faster rather than harder. :) As for drafting, we ride in two lines and each of us do his turn in the wind. But some of them stay behind. I'm not sure what the technical term is, but I'm sure you know what I'm talking about.

Spot on the tires as well, I have schwalbe lugano and found a rolling resistance test here about them: Schwalbe Lugano Rolling Resistance Review

They gave them a 1/5 :roflmao:

@PepeM
Thank you! I'm sure once I'm riding with the guys more, I'll figure out their tactics and act accordingly. This was the first time riding with them this long.

@practical
Main reason is to get better, stronger and of course, faster. I loved every pedal stroke of the ride.

I'm fine with the fact that their better, I know they are. They're riding for years and I' didn't even finish my first. They're also the ones that are attacking and raising the pace, I'm just looking to keep up. I'm sure you wouldn't like getting dropped, would you? they asked me to join the local club, so who knows, it might get competitive and I end up racing, which I'd love to try. :)

@UnfilteredDregs
Ha! We already have a screamer on the group, I don't think he'd like another one. :D Thank you, I'll try to focus on my cadence more and see if that reliefs the back pain.

Good advice. Just keep riding with them and you would be surprised how much better you get in a short amount of time. I never thought that I would give this advice because it was contrary to my enjoyment. As a runner, I never run with others. I like the solitude. I do use a GPS watch and my times matter a lot to me. I run against my virtual runner and I hate when it beats me. I first began road biking by myself and thought that it would be the same. I saw no reason to ride with others, until I did. Now, I ride on Sat. with a group. It has helped quite a bit. I still like riding by myself but for me the competition brings out the most in me. If you are on a wheel it is easier to stay there than to catch up. It is pretty good incentive.

Don't listen to these guys,everyone knows a lighter bike is the only way to get faster.

Even better if it's red...

Here's a survival tip for poor climbers: get to the front of the group when you hit the hill, ride your pace, drift through the group to the back as the faster climbers flow around you, pray you run out of hill before your run out of group.

Nothing funner than powering up series of short steep rolling hills and dropping a group.

Another tip- Do what Caloso suggests with someone else who is either a bad climber or too lazy to attack on a hill, so you can go 2 or 3 abreast and keep the entire group stuck behind you. This is a really great way to make friends on the bike as well, especially if anyone moves into the opposite lane to pass you and you yell at them for dangerous behavior.

Real tip- Do lots of core work all the time, especially planks and other workouts that target your back and abs at the same time. That will take care of your back pain. If it doesn't, work on rotating your hips to flatten your back more or raising your stem. You could pay for a fitting, but in my opinion it's money wasted until you're in decent cycling shape and know what feels good/what doesn't through trial and error.

Just go every week and do it again. It will get better fast. Watch for patterns.