Road Cycling “It is by riding a bicycle that you learn the contours of a country best, since you have to sweat up the hills and coast down them. Thus you remember them as they actually are, while in a motor car only a high hill impresses you, and you have no such accurate remembrance of country you have driven through as you gain by riding a bicycle.” -- Ernest Hemingway

Shaking my head...

Old 12-24-15, 07:11 AM
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Shaking my head...

Doping Cops Take Aim at Amateur Athletes - WSJ

I liked the reference to the types of people who would consider doping to win at the amateur level. "It's driven by ego and the desire to feel important."

What some do not get is the level of danger of using products they do not understand. And this is not the type of thing over which the family doctor will risk a medical license. At least none that I know.

If you are racing professionally and that is your only hope, I can at least understand why you might be tempted. I knew guys like that, especially in Europe. It was race a bike or back to the factory...but the people that would do this in amateur races are people with means (because this stuff is extremely expensive) who should know better.
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Old 12-24-15, 07:21 AM
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Not surprising. Competitors are always looking for an edge. And we know that PEDs can give an edge.

Of course it's stupid and dangerous. But it is happening.
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Old 12-24-15, 07:37 AM
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And still people here rationalize Lance Armstrong's cheating. When amateurs see pros doing something that "works" they copy. Even down to everyone "needing" to wear Air Jordans. Maybe we should just have two leagues for every sport. One PED free and one with no drug rules.
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Old 12-24-15, 08:07 AM
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I dope for the annual Turkey Trot - free meal. GOTTA OWN IT!!!
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Old 12-24-15, 08:27 AM
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PED use at an amateur level makes no sense to me. It would ruin any sense of accomplishment I might ever get out of competing.
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Old 12-24-15, 08:32 AM
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Originally Posted by bruce19 View Post
And still people here rationalize Lance Armstrong's cheating. When amateurs see pros doing something that "works" they copy. Even down to everyone "needing" to wear Air Jordans. Maybe we should just have two leagues for every sport. One PED free and one with no drug rules.
An old acquaintance of mine's son decided he was going to dope. Because he did not know what he as doing, his heart seized and he is dead.

We are not talking cold pills with amphetamines and a can of Red Bull.

I just find it amazing that someone would do this to win a little trophy and some equipment. How screwed up does your ego have to be?
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Old 12-24-15, 08:38 AM
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Interesting article. Noticed there was no mention though really of the entire US college sport/NCAA universe on the same issue.. of course these athletes are all amateurs as well.
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Old 12-24-15, 08:43 AM
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Originally Posted by roadwarrior View Post
We are not talking cold pills with amphetamines and a can of Red Bull.

Sooo....does that work??

I'm asking for a friend.
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Old 12-24-15, 08:45 AM
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I support the effort, but it seems some less expensive middle ground level of testing should be applied to amateurs -- catch the guys who are using EPO, for instance, but don't worry about the more common substances that can reasonably and legally be in the system of any citizen.
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Old 12-24-15, 12:06 PM
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Originally Posted by roadwarrior View Post
An old acquaintance of mine's son decided he was going to dope. Because he did not know what he as doing, his heart seized and he is dead.

We are not talking cold pills with amphetamines and a can of Red Bull.

I just find it amazing that someone would do this to win a little trophy and some equipment. How screwed up does your ego have to be?
^^^^^This. The fact that the problem exists at a level worth noting and addressing by the governing body is a sad commentary on our society.
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Old 12-24-15, 12:11 PM
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People do a lot of silly things. Just look at how many people still smoke cigarettes. They're just begging for health problems down the road.
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Old 12-24-15, 12:23 PM
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I will sometimes take a couple ibuprofin BEFORE a ride if I think my legs might get sore...I don't tell any of my riding buddies, and I bet they are wondering why I'm not so torn up after the climbs....

Had to get that off my chest...

...haven't tried red bull yet....
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Old 12-24-15, 12:50 PM
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Originally Posted by 12strings View Post
I will sometimes take a couple ibuprofin BEFORE a ride if I think my legs might get sore...I don't tell any of my riding buddies, and I bet they are wondering why I'm not so torn up after the climbs....

Had to get that off my chest...

...haven't tried red bull yet....

Dang, I thought that was my secret weapon.

We used to hang out with a couple, and the wife was into racing. One day we were talking about the whole Lance thing, and I said back in my HS wrestling days (the mid 70's) that if I were offered a pill that someone told me would help make me stronger and quicker, I probably would have taken them.

While I completely disagree with the concept of using PED's now, I could see a time when I would've. honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if I competed against guys that were.
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Old 12-24-15, 12:56 PM
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Every gym in America is full of guys who are not competing at anything using all kinds of illegal PED just so they can look good at the beach or the club. So this shouldn't be surprising. At least people competing in amateur cycling probably have aspirations of going pro and making money so
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Old 12-24-15, 01:01 PM
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Originally Posted by roadwarrior View Post
An old acquaintance of mine's son decided he was going to dope. Because he did not know what he as doing, his heart seized and he is dead.

We are not talking cold pills with amphetamines and a can of Red Bull.

I just find it amazing that someone would do this to win a little trophy and some equipment. How screwed up does your ego have to be?
As you point out, he didn't know what he was doing.

But there are plenty of people with the resources to hire doctors who do know what they're doing. Microdosng with EPO and HGH isn't putting them at much risk. The interesting thing, to me, is that they know they are cheating but are still able to give themselves credit for winning. It's an illustration of how important status is to a lot of people, they'll go to almost any lengths to be admired.
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Old 12-24-15, 01:39 PM
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Originally Posted by 12strings View Post
I will sometimes take a couple ibuprofin BEFORE a ride if I think my legs might get sore...I don't tell any of my riding buddies, and I bet they are wondering why I'm not so torn up after the climbs....

Had to get that off my chest...

...haven't tried red bull yet....
Very common practice among long distance runners, it is relatively safe but can be troubles with the digestive system/intestines according to a NYT's article of a year or so ago.

By the way: don't we all want to be number one in anything and everything?
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Old 12-24-15, 02:20 PM
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Originally Posted by VNA View Post
Very common practice among long distance runners, it is relatively safe but can be troubles with the digestive system/intestines according to a NYT's article of a year or so ago.

By the way: don't we all want to be number one in anything and everything?
Oh, I'm never number one in my group rides...I simply aim to not be last, or if I am last, at least not get dropped...I aim high!
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Old 12-24-15, 03:24 PM
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Originally Posted by roadwarrior View Post
An old acquaintance of mine's son decided he was going to dope. Because he did not know what he as doing, his heart seized and he is dead.

We are not talking cold pills with amphetamines and a can of Red Bull.

I just find it amazing that someone would do this to win a little trophy and some equipment. How screwed up does your ego have to be?
If you look at the people who have been busted, most of the amateurs are masters racers, and many have won national and world championship, which is a bit more than a little trophy. In one case, a guy who claimed to have won masters world championships clean said he started doping to be able to remain competitive as he aged.
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Old 12-24-15, 03:27 PM
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Originally Posted by VNA View Post

By the way: don't we all want to be number one in anything and everything?
No.
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Old 12-24-15, 04:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Agent Cooper View Post
Sooo....does that work??

I'm asking for a friend.
When I raced, amphetamines were cutting edge. They are illegal. As a result you can draw your own conclusions...

You can get a legal boost from B12 and anacin, which has caffeine. A boost plus a pain killer.
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Old 12-24-15, 04:04 PM
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Originally Posted by topflightpro View Post
If you look at the people who have been busted, most of the amateurs are masters racers, and many have won national and world championship, which is a bit more than a little trophy. In one case, a guy who claimed to have won masters world championships clean said he started doping to be able to remain competitive as he aged.
The point of the article is it goes a bit deeper than that. But I agree with your point.
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Old 12-24-15, 06:18 PM
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The article does indeed point to a sad state with amateurs. But if testing is done, I can see why this guy was singled out - a hedge fund manager with probably little free time, probably has progressed pretty far with his training as far as hitting his potential, and then knocking an hour off his previous best time to qualify.

I can see why amateurs are tempted to use PED. All it takes is knowledge others do it so immediately of ope think there's an unfair advantage I have to overcome. All we can hope for is the users getting caught, get severe penalities to discourage others, and letting the stigma carry over to their professional lives where repercussions can be even worse.
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Old 12-24-15, 06:32 PM
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PEDs are everywhere, when I was diagnosed at age 46 with a clotting blood disorder the first thing my hematologist told me was to never use PEDs. I was surprised but as I drove home it occurred to me he's seen it all and it must not that uncommon. My son told me at the gym PEDs are like weed in the college dorms....
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Old 12-24-15, 06:49 PM
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Recently we've seen both 49 year old masters racing against 10 people and not very good juniors caught using banned substances.
The WADA and USADA (or whatever country you are in) list of banned substances is long. Not everything is very dangerous. Some very dangerous things in small doses are not all that unhealthy. But they are all banned - for USAC riders.
Some stuff is legal - and in too high a dose can kill you. Kids have died from caffeine (powder).
So fixing it is complicated.

Basically my view in the context of cycling is ... allowed drugs are tools to be used properly. Other drugs are not allowed because they are on the list.
The fact that in both groups there are drugs that can be abused/cause harm and you can die does not make drugs more dangerous than how someone chooses to ride on the road. That a competitor chooses to break their agreement (assuming they are racing under some org) to abide by the rules (cheat) to me is the same as if they do this using drugs or find other ways to cheat. My opinion is cycling should deal with them the same.

I think the solution is regular testing and a black and white attitude and not have those in charge consider intent or ethics. Just a table of if you are found with this / or in this amount, then this happens. Right now things are squishy and intent/accidents are being used as excuses. That needs to go.

The forum has two threads going where I over share my somewhat minority opinion. Here http://www.bikeforums.net/33-road-bi...ide-clean.html and here http://www.bikeforums.net/33-road-bi...nic-drugs.html
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Old 12-24-15, 06:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Mr IGH View Post
PEDs are everywhere, when I was diagnosed at age 46 with a clotting blood disorder the first thing my hematologist told me was to never use PEDs. I was surprised but as I drove home it occurred to me he's seen it all and it must not that uncommon. My son told me at the gym PEDs are like weed in the college dorms....
Is there anything wrong with PEDs if used properly?
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