pakossa

A couple years ago, I had wheels built with Velocity A23 rims. I heard that wider rims were supposed to ride and handle better. Upon getting them, I was shocked to discover that it was nearly impossible to get my freaking tires on the things! Only way I could -- barely -- get it on, was using a screwdriver without a rim strip or tube in place. (I assume the problem was that they are one of those "tubeless ready" things.) Anyway, since its time for a rebuild, I was wondering if there was a way to try wider rims that aren't "tubeless ready." Do they make them? Or, as I was thinking, perhaps use an MTB rim? (I have Mavic 317s on my 29r that are 3 - 4 mm wider than the Mavic Open Pros I use on my road bike. Tried putting on a couple tires. One seems fine, but another didn't quite seat right . . . part of the bead didn't come all the way up.) Or, does the wide rims make too small of a difference to be worth it? (I use 28c or 32c tires.)

Drew Eckhardt 

Switch to two wraps of 3/4" 1 mil Kapton tape. That'll total .005" versus .010" for thin rim tapes and .020" for Velox. It'll also provide more slack than Veocity Velo Plugs.

Start at the seam and end at the valve stem.

Together those two things make the difference between cussing at tools and hand-mounting tires on tight combinations like my Continentals on Velocity Fusions which proved tighter than the Continentals on Kinlin XR300 which was previously the worst combination I encountered.

anotherbrian

Soapy water, maybe. Your technique and/or fingers are weak.

pakossa

If my "technique and/or fingers are weak," than why can I get the tires on my Mavic rims in a few seconds with no tools?

Bah Humbug

I love the Belgiums. Hard to mount certain fresh tires on them (GP4Ks), but it works well enough if you just stretch the tires on backup wheels in the garage before mounting them. That's what we do.

The A23s are kinda cheap and crappy, from all I've heard. Other good options, cheaper than the Belgium but less common/ easy to replace, are the H+Son Archetype and Pacenti SL23.

Bah Humbug

Slightly smaller rim diameters. More modern designs tend to be a little bigger, so flat tires don't roll off as easily.

Spoonrobot 

Because they're incrementally smaller diameter than the A23s? Also, not to be rude, but if you are using a screwdriver to help mount tires your understanding and respect of the process is poor and could probably use some development.

Process to get on a stubborn tire is generally technique, lubrication & then tools.

I like wide rims. Started with some 22mm sun CR18s and have progressed to Flo30s which are tapered 24-25.8mm wide.

What brakes are you using? 26mm is about as wide as I can go with my regular road brakes. Anything larger and the pads need to be filed down and the overall brake performance starts to degrade as the pivot arcs become compromised by starting the braking action from a point significantly wider than designed. You may run into similar if you try to use mountain rims.

fietsbob

I was OK with Mavic Mod4.. toured on them .. Michelin Hi lite 35 tires ..

lennyk

I use pacenti sl23 and they are a pain too but manageable if you know the technique
Of keeping the bead in the center of rim to maximize space and after each bead advancement you should recheck that the bead is centered as it usually will not be and when yo adjust it you will find more room to move bead again.
I have gotten tires on by hand which i originally cursed.
As mentioned end wit the valve because if you start with the valve then the valve willprevent bead from sitting in rim center channel.

Doctor Morbius

Some rims are nearly impossible to deal with. I had a pair of Araya rims on an old MTB that destroyed my fingertips whenever I had to change tires or tubes.

Also, my Mavic Open Pro rims are snug, but not next to impossible like the Arayas. I have some Alex rims (came stock on older Specialized bikes) where the tires go on and off with ease.

shelbyfv

I have first generation Pacenti SL23s. They are a pain to mount new tires, sometimes have to use a lever. The gen2 SL23s are said to be better. A 25mm GP4000s measures 28mm on these rims. On the same bike I can run Open Pros with 28s, nominal and actual. I prefer the ride of that combo.

Marcus_Ti

Depends on the tires. I have Belgiums and some I can barehand most of the way...some I cannot.

Ghazmh

I also use the same leak detection fluid that's used for auto tires rubbed on the rim and tire.

chaadster

+1

And it's not just poor understanding of the process, but of the constituents as well. The whole tubeless thing is an example of how ignorance leads to wrong conclusions.

I'd suggest, without giving up the game, a new thread with an appropriately framed starting point, e.g. Are there wide rims that mount tires easily?

rm -rf

My HED Ardennes Plus rims are tubeless ready. HED supplies thin tape that's wrapped twice around. They are 25.5mm outside and 20.9mm inside width.

These rims are quite easy to mount GP4000 tires, either 23c or 25c. I use tubes. The bead snaps into the groove in the rim when the pressure is fairly high. When deflating, I can pop the bead off the groove with light thumb pressure.

I really like the wide rims. They are comfortable and have low rolling resistance. My 23c tires measure about 26mm, and I run 80 to 85 front and 100 to 105 rear. I weight about 170 pounds.

~~~

These are way easier than my older Kinlin 30 rims. Those Kinlin rims have a very shallow center well, so there's very little slack to get the bead over the rim. It's so tight, I can't slide the tire around the rim, with just one bead down in the center and no tube yet. I had sore fingers and mangled levers the first time I tried it.

Here's how I mounted those tight tires:

The key is to just lift an inch or less of the bead, slide over, and repeat. It's fast and easy.

lennyk

I your original post someone mentions gong back from start and making sure bead is centered to make more slack,
That step is probably the most helpful.

RPK79

I think the rim depth is more of a factor for getting the tires on than the width.

Elvo

For those with girly wrists or medical issues:

Psimet2001 

Tubeless rim beds are the issue. This is different than tight rims or tire combinations of the past - this is planned interference between the tire and rim so that the system can be run tubeless. great for those that like tubeless. PITA for anyone that wants to keep running tubed.

I had customers intermittently complain about how hard it was to mount tires on rims like the Pacenti SL23. I personally never had problems but chalked it up to the fact that I have mounted way more tires than I care to remember. Then I ran across one that left me dumbfounded. Then one of my employees was able to get it on there with a little bit of work. It must have been her "girly wrists" that allowed her to do it (yeah - I don't go for the sexist slurs people throw out). We switched to using tubeless tape which can be made out of plenty of tapes that are available. Most is simply appliance tape (like the blue tape used to hold the drawers in place and shelves in place in like a refrigerator when you buy them).

The second generation SL23 is better but marginally.

My recommendations from tons of experience include using tubeless or thin tape, get the tire bead in the center channel of the rim as they are designing them deeper and deeper to help, and use a "real" lever - meaning a nylon/plastic coated steel lever

Psimet2001 

1. Stop with the sexist remarks.
2. I have a pile of those in the shop. Can't stand them. Nice concept - horrible design for modern road tires and tubeless rims.

dvdslw

I find that tight tires need extra lube to get the 2nd bead on easily, I use some dish soap mixed with some water that works pretty well. It just takes practice and proper technique.

rpenmanparker 

The VAR tool is also helpful, safe for your rims and more portable for carrying while riding than the Kool Stop.

The business about do the valve side last is unimportant. Most folks have always done the valve side first. If the valve stem keeps the tire out of the center channel, it is for such a limited arc that the difference is meaningless. Seating the valve stem properly inside the tire first before mounting the rest of the second bead is much more important than the milli-smidgen of extra slack doing it the opposite way provides.

noodle soup

I disagree, but you are entitled to your opinion. Sometimes that tiny difference is all it takes.

dvdslw

I think the valve stem only becomes an issue when installing a tubeless tire where if the first bead is sitting on the stem you'll never get the second bead on. The op seems to be against "tubeless ready things" so he'll be using tubes for sure.

rpenmanparker 

I can see how that would be a problem.