RNAV

TL;DR: I bought some 23mm Schwalbe Pro One Tubeless tires and love them.

I thought I'd share my first full-on tubeless tire swap-out for those considering going tubeless, plus give my impression on Schwalbe's new Pro One tubeless tire.

Background
My only tubeless experience has been with Bontrager's R2 & R3 TLR tires which were installed tubeless by the dealer when I purchased the bike 1.5 years ago. Compared with clinchers, I found the Bontrager tubeless tires to offer a smoother, more compliant ride. I'd read others here wax poetic about Schwalbe Ones, so I was really looking forward to trying them as my Bontrager's were nearing the end of their useful service life (~3,000 miles). As luck would have it (or not), I experienced an interesting catastrophic failure.

Got a pretty decent gash in the rear tire, which the sealant actually did seal up. But I'd lost a lot of air, and was bouncing around noticeably. So I pulled over, verified it'd been sealed, and then went to inflate with my CO2. When I put the CO2 inflater head on, prior to inflating the tire, the tubeless valve stem just broke completely off. Well crap. I had a spare tube with me, but I was 5 minutes from home so I just had my wife come pick me up.

So I ordered some Schwalbe Pro One Tubeless tires in 25mm from Glory Cycles, for $65 each btw, which they showed as backordered until 28 Dec 2015. Well, come 29 Dec, their website updates to show the tires backordered to the end of February. I call them up, they very professionally explain that Schwalbe keeps pushing back their release date for the 25s, and they offer to change my order to 23s or 28s. I opt for the 23s (because the 25s barely fit on my Emonda), and the guy says he'll ship them that day. Overall great experience. What the guy didn't say was that he was going to overnight them to me for free . . . so I got the 23s the day after I called. That, in my book, is darn good customer service.

Anyways, on to the tire change.

Tire change
Here's the Bontrager's I started with (sans valve on the rear):


I've always heard about the "mess" involved with a tubeless tire change, what with all the sealant. So I decided to nip that problem in the bud by taping a WD-40 straw to the inside of a medicine syringe with teflon tape. I used this to extract all the sealant through the valve stem prior to removing the tires.


Here's the extraction of the sealant:


All gone:


I will say that the sealant still looked to be in good condition, and I thought about reusing it but decided to use fresh sealant with my new Schwalbes.

This was the "mess" that I was left with, which was really just a damp inside of a tire:




I removed the tubeless rim strip (when I first bought my bike, Bontrager's TLR rim strip was one-time-use; they've since introduced a sturdier TLR rim strip which is multi-use), and this was the messiest part of either wheel:


Considering the failure I experienced was Bontrager's cheap-arse valve stem, I elected to go with some American Classic tubeless valve stems. Talk about a significant upgrade in quality and craftsmanship. They use high-quality o-rings around the anodized stem, the valves are of much better quality, and they have a contoured washer that matches the profile of the rim so you can secure the valve to the rim without gouging up the rim with the nut. I'd always had problems with the Bontrager valve stems leaking because I couldn't really get them tight enough . . . not a problem with the American Classics:


I wiped down the rims, and installed the new rim strips:


Then the new valve stems:

RNAV

Now for the tires:



One tire (in 23mm) came in at 250 grams -- higher than advertised:



The other (in 23mm) came it at 234.5g, just under the advertised 235g:



I re-weighed both tires and got the same results. I couldn't visually ascertain why one was heavier than the other, and I verified that both tires had 23 imprinted on the casing. I opted to put the heavier tire on the rear, figuring the extra 15 grams had to be somewhere . . . hopefully that somewhere is in the tread.


Mounting the tires was pretty much like mounting any other clincher. They were a little tight, so I wiped the bead of the tires with soapy water, and then used a towel to give myself better grip and slipped the tires on without having to resort to tire levers. The nice thing about these tires is that they held air without sealant . . . my Bontragers never did that. End result:





For reference, my wheels have an interior width of 17.5mm. Inflated to 100 psi, without any pressure on the calipers, the tires measure between 26 and 27mm. With light pressure, they measure between 25 and 26mm. My Bontrager R2 and R3s, in 25mm, measured 26mm on these wheels. The digital portion of my calipers fritzed out on me while I was taking pictures (sorry), but it should be easy enough to read:








Riding impressions


On the Bontrager 25s, I was running 85 psi front & 90 psi rear (I weigh 185). Considering the Schwalbes were technically 23s, I decided to start out at 100F/105R for my first ride on them.


Setting out on my usual 25 mile circular loop, the tires felt smooth yet firm, with sharper handling than the Bontragers. Grip in the turns was very positive and confidence inspiring. They also felt fast. I don't know if it was placebo effect or what, but out of the 10 segments on my normal loop, I turned in 5 PRs, and either 2nd or 3rd fastest times on the other segments save for 2. Like I said, it's a circular route, so I don't think the results can be attributed to winds (it wasn't really windy anyways). Needless to say, I was impressed, but the ride did feel firmer than what I was used to on my Bontragers due to the higher pressure.


The next day, I set out with 95F/100R on a 30 mile hilly route. Still a smooth ride, with crisp handling, but noticeably more comfortable at the lowered pressure. The most interesting thing to me about these tires is that they seem to really like climbing. Writing that down it sounds ridiculous, but that's the best way I can describe it. They just felt like they were climbing easier than my Bontragers did.


The money ride came the next day. I figured even though they were labeled 23s, they measured out to 25s mounted, so I went with the 85F/90R that I'd been running my Bontrager 25s at. This was the ride where I truly felt like these were great tires. They roll smoother, more comfortably, and seem to accelerate faster than my Bontragers. Grip in the corners is noticeably better and very confidence inspiring. This seems counter-intuitive, but the Schwalbes are more communicative in terms of road feel, while offering a smoother and more refined ride.


All in all, I've got just over 60 miles on the tires and am very pleased with them.

gsa103

Neat trick with the WD-40 straw, I need to remember that one!

Thanks for the review. I've been happy with my existing Ones, but will probably switch when they wear out.

Trsnrtr

Thanks for the write-up.

chaadster

Nice write-up and pics! Thanks.

The inside of your tires post-sealant are what mine (first gen Ones) have looked like in the past, even after hanging in the basement for 3 months through winter.

Chandne

Nice write-up. I like the idea of tubeless. I picked up two of the 23s as well. My Roubaix has TLR rims (Pacentis) so that will be no problem. The Tarmac is another story with the CLX 40 rims. I don't think I see anyone safely converting that rim.

DrIsotope

Please keep us updated with regards to tire life. I'm very interested to see if the compound on the Pros is harder or softer than what was used in the old ONEs-- as I could barely get 1000 miles out of each set of those.

f4rrest

Oh the irony: "AmClassic(R) : Made in Taiwan."

DXchulo

Might as well use a tire lever, right? There's no tube in there to puncture.

TrojanHorse

Nice pictorial write up. So... did you have to replace the goop in the tire during your 3200 miles on those old tires? Top it up from time to time?

I just switched to tubeless in November - 28mm Hutchinson Sectors and yeah, when you get the air pressure right it is like riding on little puffy clouds. Fabulous.

dalava

Thanks for the write up, and thank for the info. I also tried to mount them over the holidays to a pair of American Classic Road Tubeless wheels with these tires. The front went on as expected, no fuss, and it looks great. But I have a hell of a time mounting the rear because the tire just won't seat properly. At a particular spot about 6 inches long, the Schwalbe Pro One just won't move up to the rim, even though the air seem to be holding tight. I am using an air compressor for injecting air. Here is what I've tried so far, and nothing has worked:
- changed the rim tape - now it has fresh Stan's yellow tape, 2 layers
- apply soapy water and windex to make the rim wall slippery
- pumped the air to 110psi. I am afraid to pump the tires more than that (hear some horror stories about tubeless slipping off the rims)
- put a inner tube and mount the tire as regular tubed, and pumped the tire to 12-psi, in the hope of expanding the tire a little, but the tire seem to got stuck in the same spot even with tube in it
- change to a difference Schwalbe Pro One tire, no difference, stuck in the same place
- emailed American Classic, but heard nothing back. I think I will call them soon if nothing works

FWIW, the wheel used to have a tubeless Schwalbe One (not Pro One) 25mm on it and it was just fine. So I doubt the rim is the problem. I am really at the wit's end. Anything you guys think I should try next?

gsa103

Most tubeless setups recommend against levers, as they have the potential to damage the beads or rim interface. Having said that, it's almost impossible to mount most road tubeless tires without levers.

UnfilteredDregs

Not true.

I do it all the time with hands, a towel, and some dishsoap. 2 minutes.

chaadster

Yeah, I've done a few One installs on Argent rims barehanded, without soap, very easily and quickly. It's just like with clinchers in that difficulty depends on the combo of tire and rim.

I'm putting S-Ones on AC Victory 30 rims this weekend; I'll report on that combo afterwards.

qcpmsame 

Good write up, RNAV, thanks for the tutorial on the tubeless installation. The idea of using the syringe with the WD-40 straw is a good piece of advice. I have a suspension fluid syringe (for dirt bike forks) that has a length of poly tubing attached to the tip, this should do the trick if I go ahead with trying tubeless tires/wheels. If I can find a good price on Shimano Ultegras that are tubeless ready, I think I may give them a shot.

Your report on how those Schwalbe Pro One work will give me the feedback about their quality and ride, I'll look forward to reading the future reports.

Bill

SpeshulEd 

Excellent writeup. I'm thinking of trying these on my wheels...this helped convince me!

dvdslw

While the straw extraction idea is a good one, I've never removed the sealant prior to dismounting a tubeless tire. All of the sealant settles at the bottom so as long as you keep the tire and wheel upright throughout the removal process you don't really spill any at all, maybe a drop or two on your table. I usually just dismount the tire outside and rinse the wheel and tire out with the hose.

Nice review by the way and I've found all you say to mirror my experience so far with the Pro One's. Best riding tire I've ever had and if they hold up well I don't see it getting much better for clinchers. I feel bad for the people who believe tubed is the only way because they're really missing out on something special here.

Chandne

This kinda makes me want to sell the Roval Rapide CLX40s so I can build up (or maybe buy) a set that is tubeless compatible. I really wanted to move to tubeless this year on all my bikes (Cruz, Roubaix, new Tarmac). The Crux can be converted, the Roubaix too, but the Roval carbon rims probably not. I mainly like that if I were to run over a nail or tack at a high rate of speed (mainly downhill- we have a lot of mtns here) that the tire (if run tubeless) is far less likely to deflate as quickly. The better ride quality is nice to have as well.

dvdslw

Tubeless tires also tend to stay put in the event of sudden air loss due to their locking bead design which could be the difference between just having to change a tire or visiting the hospital or buying a new bike.

I've heard the Roval's don't play well with tubeless so I'd sell them and get some wheels that do if you're all in. I recently bought some Easton ec90sl's and they are simply awesome. Lightweight, wide, nice hubs, look killer, and besides Easton's other carbon offering, the Aero55's, are the only "certified" road tubeless carbon clinchers on the market. There are some tubeless "ready" carbon clinchers out there like the Assaults and some smaller outfits selling their wheels with a conversion kit but none are true tubeless so use caution when deciding on a wheel set. I've experienced nothing but problems using a carbon wheel that needs tape to seal and high inflation pressures. Here's a link to the ec90's EC90 SL CLINCHER | Easton Cycling

TrojanHorse

I bought some EA90SL wheels to replace my old EA90SL wheels and these are ALSO awesome (got 'em on sale at nashbar for about 450 in November or so). No tape required, which removes one variable.

Chandne

Not to derail this thread too much but I will look into selling the Rovals. eBay charges 10% plus PayPal 3% so may try the forums or Craigslist. These are disc wheels so if I don't want prebuilt wheels, I'll go with DT 240s Centerlocks (since Alchemy is out) CX Rays, and figure out which rims.

RNAV

I'm glad you folks liked the write up -- enjoyed doing it. I'm going to try experimenting with even lower pressures, but I think 85F/90R is likely my optimum pressure. The ride is plenty comfy, and if I lower the pressure further I can't imagine there being a significant enough ride improvement to justify the increased rolling resistance.

Although I haven't been able to ride the past few days, I can say that these tires have been holding air like a boss. My Bontragers would be almost flat after 5 days of not riding.

dwrz

My experience has been very negative and I do not recommend them. My setup was Pro One 28mm and Pacenti SL23 (version 1).

I could not get the tire to mount with just tire levers, despite trying all the tricks I could find online (soap, towel, velcro, etc.). I could not even get the first side onto the rim. A section of about 8"/20cm would simply not go up onto the rim.

I ordered the Kool Stop tire bead jack, waited a few days for it to arrive, then tried again. After some strenuous effort, I was able to mount the tire on the front wheel. It did inflate with a pump.

Started on the rear, and same issue -- 8"/20cm simply would not go up onto the rim. Tried the Kool Stop jack, and it literally exploded from the leverage. Tried another Kool Stop jack -- same thing. Really dangerous.

Left the tire like that on the rim, and after a few days, gave it a go again with a tire lever. I was able to get one side onto the rim. Working on the second side, my tire lever (one of the wide ones) exploded.

This morning I decided to give up and take the tires off. They're stuck. For the rear, I can't get the single side that's on off the rim. For the front, both sides are stuck. Yes, the beads are in the central channel.

For something advertised as "Tubeless Easy" (patently false advertising) this has been an incredibly frustrating and time intensive experience. Personally, once I figure out what to do with these tires (and get my wheels back), I will not be using tubeless. In fact, after this experience, I will no longer be purchasing tires from Schwalbe, unless I see some serious remediation. I have emailed them but have not received any reply yet.

My recommendation is, if you want to try these out, do it at a shop that can test that they'll fit on your rims, and will take them back if they don't. If they're taking a big effort to get on, stop. Don't even bother, or you may not be able to get them off.

I'm going back to tubes. I've probably spent more time trying to get these tires on then in dealing with punctures so far this year.

RJM

I put these on a set of November rails recently. The first one was difficult to get on and I was swearing a bunch trying to figure out if I got the wrong sized tire or something. I broke two tire levers in the process. November has a blog post about mounting tubeless tires on a rim and the little tricks do help a bit and the second one went on much smoother. Really, the first tire's issues were operator error. Remember, you don't have a tube that you have to worry about squishing and putting a hole into so using tire levers is made easier with that.

They were both holding air without sealant after I used a co2 cartridge to seat the tire to the rims. I don't know about getting them off but I would imagine they are going to be a little more difficult than my Conti 4000gps were as they are a tighter fitting tire. As long as you get one little bit of the tire off the rim it should be a piece of cake though.


Here is the blog post. The key advice that really helped I found was to finish at the valve stem.

https://www.novemberbicycles.com/blog...made-easy.html

DrIsotope

I never had a problem mounting my Ones, or having them seat on the first try. They just happen to have absolutely zero flat protection (I got more flats on the Schwalbes than on any other tire I've tried) and wear out faster than one can conceivably imagine. The first tire I mounted to the rear wheel lasted 33 days. I've since run Maxxis Re-Fuse TR, and they outperform the Ones in every way-- cheaper, don't get flats, last 2x as long, mount even easier, hold air longer.