As I said, "Of course equipment matters". At some, point, it stops mattering as much, and for some not at all.

Actually, I doubt any of those guys have a 15lb sprint bike. They would probably break the frame and it would more than likely be too flexible, but yes, essentially that is my point.

He also say "Man who cuts and pastes comment into Word and has it count characters possesses great acumen and, on his death bed, will receive total consciousness", so I've got that going for me.

Any partner who has told you that has been lying. ;)

Someone said that buying a lighter bike leads to delusions, which is a mental illness. I think that the cause and effect is sometimes reversed from that. Delusional thinking leading to the purchase.

Reality is physics, amateur or otherwise. Ten pounds less from 180 pounds total is 10/180 less effort raising that weight up a steep (no air drag) hill at a given speed. 5.5%, guaranteed. What that means to us causes arguments and possibly reflects mental illnesses, but there's no arguing the number.

I can ride nearly as fast on the flats on my 1988 Basso Gap (21 pounds) as my 2015 Cannondale Supersix EVO 105 (15 pounds with carbon wheels and upgraded crankset). The Cannondale is slightly faster on the flats. As soon as the grade increases, the Supersix is noticeably faster. It is also much easier to shift than the Gap's downtube shifters.

So I am going to say yes, equipment matters. This is especially true if you are riding hard and fast.

Your example group was world Class (UCI weights enforced), Velodrome - they are not under 15. I'd expect they can get those bikes to 15# pretty easily. The one I got from eBay for $700 is under 15#.

In a TT a few seconds can be saved only by equipment, or given rider of same position, power, line...the equipment makes the difference in time. What equipment depends on the course.

Some equipment matters - some doesn't. An Ultegra chain has solid pins and a Dura-Ace does not. Other than that they are pretty close to the same chain. So you have a mass only difference.
But using another designed chain on that same Shimano equipment may not produce the same results. That matters.
Choosing the wrong profile rim - matters.

I have had this quote on the back of my business card for years. Too many people just don't get it.

http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=497062

Dude, even with the numbers, my summary was that at the end of the day the weight difference is irrelevant in the face of other factors :).

You must clearly buy larger fortune cookies.

It depends. Did you buy the new bike with your own money? If yes, then I'm sure you'll think it makes a difference.

Whether something matters or not is an individual choice but everyone here likes to think that whatever apply to them should apply to everyone else too.

Whether better aerodynamics or lower weight make a difference isn't up for debate and can in fact be demonstrated, sometimes easily and sometimes not so much. Whether the magnitude of said difference is perceptible is again up to the individual, as is the decision of whether the magnitude of the difference is relevant or not.

Now discuss away for another ten pages.

Using "light" as the hallmark only tells one part of the story. High end bicycles of modern manufacture are all pretty close weight-wise, but what really matters is the quality and sophistication relative to the sum of it's parts.

Example- Somec carbon frame, and Super Record 11 with top shelf carbon/tubular wheels, is night and day different than a 105 equipped generic LBS bike (Trek, Specialized etc.) The difference in the ride is so substantial, it will blow your mind.

I can definitely feel a weight difference, but only if that difference is accompanied by a superior groupset/wheelset.

So yes, equipment does matter. :)

Stick a nice modern drivetrain on it. I have converted my 1980s bikes. I don't miss downtube shifters for a second.

Does it matter that equipment matters ?

On flat ground, not really. If you're carrying it up the stairs when your ride is done, it could matter a lot.

There's a "joke" among photographers: Guy says to me, "those are great photos! what camera do you use?" I told him "that's a great book you wrote, what typewriter do you use?" The rub is the guy telling the joke has a $3,000 lens, and wouldn't have bought it if he believed gear doesn't matter.

I was talked into buying a Thule roof rack by the salesman at REI, who said he's seen too many bikes damaged in rear-end accidents while on rear racks.

Even if it makes NO difference in my speed, the weight of my CF Roubaix is much easier to roof rack than one of my heavier bikes.

Bikes are accelerating and decelerating constantly - especially in group rides. But even in a straight TT there are areas weight matters.
In physics we are all taught about how it takes no force for something of any mass to the same velocity (except for friction - air yada yada).
But bikes don't go in a straight line. They travel (trace the path on the ground) in sin waves with the front wheel having slightly larger amplitude than the rear and smother riders - move less.
A wind gust will also move a bike, but the massive one less, and the rider recovers to get back on course using about the same energy heavy or light bike. But the road variations generally don't care about the mass of the bike so much and jolted the bike 2in to the left (complaint tires minimized the movement through shock absorption and reduce the amount the bike it taken off course - another topic) . The rider now has to correct for that. The lighter wheels especially, and lighter bike can do that more easily than a heavier one.

Weight is actually not that important in a TT. Aero is important in a TT. My TT bike is my heaviest bike but also the "cleanest". In that most of the cabling is hidden from the wind (we could do better though, next project is the brake cables). Even my brakes are hidden. The frame is narrower than the wheels.

Yes, it takes more effort to spool up a slightly heavier bike (I say slightly because my TT bike is not actually heavy, its just heavier than my road bikes) but it also holds energy better than a light bike- it naturally smooths out your TT power and personally I find the momentum that the bike carries to be hugely helpful in avoiding the necessity for power surges that would put me into the red power-wise.

Completely uttterly 100% agree with you though that equipment matters much more for some endeavors than others. For casual riding, decent stuff that doesn't break is often good enough. For racing, equipment hugely matters. Racing is about accumulating enough advantage over your competitors to have a shot at winning (or at least not embarrassing yourself). Some of that is training better, some is racing smarter, some is equipment choices. You'll see arguments here in the 41 that some bike upgrade is not worth it because it "only" gains you 1 min over X distance. The implication is that anyone who will pay $1000 for a minute is a fool. A minute in a 20k TT is huge though, you are blowing your competition out of the water if you win by a minute. So it makes sense to consider spending the $1000 in that context if you can afford it.

I also think that sometimes its just plain nicer on a qualitative level to ride nicer stuff. My endurance road bike is just smooth to ride, really a graceful thing that's great for climbing climbing climbing. My livelier road bike is just a quick little responsive thing that is so much fun on group rides. My TT bike just keeps going and going and there is something about it that makes me want to never stop pedaling, it think its the weight and the wheels. They all just *feel* way better to me than my old entry-level aluminum road bike, which certainly got the job done. But I don't like it as much to the point that I won't ride it any more. There's also nothing wrong with getting good stuff- bike or wheels or electronic shifting- because you like it better. The difference is by no means imaginary.

All the mechanical things true for racers are true for non-racers - but it "mattering" or not I have no way to determine. What a non-racer can do is get a motor. There are some really cool hidden ones that add about 100W and nobody will know you have them. That equipment matters.
http://cdn.mos.bikeradar.imdserve.co...35-960-540.jpg

I am 69 years old and I absolutely know that if I can get my hands on a 15 lb. bike I will be in the TdF this July.

It's all original stuff and in nearly perfect condition. The old campy stuff is like artwork. I also keep it that way for the nostalgia of when I used to ride in my early twenties. I don't ride it much but I will bring it out on group rides once a week. Everyone thinks its cool. I even have a retro Basso kit I wear just to complete the image. I did take off the pedal clips and put clipless on. I can't give that up at all.